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Author Topic: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?  (Read 16405 times)

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Offline mongo

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2011, 10:38:44 PM »
Quote from: Franko;633795
I really wish you would stop using American laws for your examples, USA laws don't apply the rest of the world, each country has it's own laws and length of times such things apply for... so it would depend under which countries laws the documents were signed... ;)


Example UK copyright laws (time limits)...

http://www.caret.cam.ac.uk/copyright/Page171.html


If something was copyrighted in the USA, than the time limits of the USA apply to it, according to the Berne Convention, of which the UK is a party to.
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2011, 10:40:39 PM »
Quote from: dammy;633796
AFAIK, AOS was originally coded and copyrighted in USA.  Do you have proof it was created in the UK so it would fall under UK's copyright laws of 50 years?  I didn't think so.


That's not what I said, I was simply pointing out that in whichever country the agreement was signed it would fall under that countries laws. I agree that the original CBM stuff would most likely come under US law, but what about companies like Gateway where was that agreement signed and which countries laws would that therefore be under... :)
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2011, 10:49:14 PM »
Quote from: Franko;633798
That's not what I said, I was simply pointing out that in whichever country the agreement was signed it would fall under that countries laws. I agree that the original CBM stuff would most likely come under US law, but what about companies like Gateway where was that agreement signed and which countries laws would that therefore be under... :)


The agreement would be under what ever country it was agreed to in the contract.  That would not over right where the initial copyright was originally created and those laws would follow the copyrighted material until the expiration date.

I still don't get why this is even in question, AOS is too old to give a rat's rear end about when you have AROS code available. When Bill Buck was talking about if he had won the AI case and he got the code, he said he would offer it to the AROS Devs.  The AROS Devs politely turned him down because it was too out dated to be useful to them.  Even more so now that AROS68K and kickstart are back in development.
Dammy

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Offline mongo

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2011, 10:50:53 PM »
Quote from: Pentad;633787
While a copyright exists for anything a person creates they must also protect that copyright to maintain it.


Don't confuse copyright and trademark. Trademarks need to be protected, copyrights do not.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2011, 10:53:24 PM »
Quote from: dammy;633796
AFAIK, AOS was originally coded and copyrighted in USA.  Do you have proof it was created in the UK so it would fall under UK's copyright laws of 50 years?  I didn't think so.
While I'm not really interested in Copyright discussions... Since as far as I'm concerned AmigaOS is tainted IP and AROS is the way to get Amiga compatibility... But I thought I would chime in with an interesting fact that AmigaDOS is basically a straight port of the old British Operating System TripOS to run on top of the exec kernel, and I believe it was done in the UK at a Bristol based company called MetaComCo. :)

Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2011, 10:53:53 PM »
Quote from: dammy;633800
I still don't get why this is even in question, AOS is too old to give a rat's rear end about when you have AROS code available. When Bill Buck was talking about if he had won the AI case and he got the code, he said he would offer it to the AROS Devs.  The AROS Devs politely turned him down because it was too out dated to be useful to them.  Even more so now that AROS68K and kickstart are back in development.


EXACTLY... :D (wow never thought I'd agree with something Dammy said)

At the end of the day who really give a furry rodents bottom about any of this BS... :)

In the words of this jaunty wee ditty "It's all a load of Bollocks & Bollocks to it all"... ;)

[youtube]WEx_ByPS9xQ[/youtube]
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2011, 11:05:19 PM »
Quote from: mongo;633797
If something was copyrighted in the USA, than the time limits of the USA apply to it, according to the Berne Convention, of which the UK is a party to.


Again, if a company is insolvent and its assets are liquidated in a bankruptcy, it can not transfer assets to another company afterward as it no longer exists.
Bernhard Hembach was an employee of Escom. He is the individual that signed for all three parties in the three contracts that supposedly transferred the rights of this intellectual property to Gateway - this occurred three years after Commodore signed a  "Trademark Assignment" agreement with Escom, long after CBM and Commodore-Amiga were liquidated.
The only legal approval of this agreement was from a German notary.

These documents are absolutely NOT valid as Escom never obtained the rights to Amiga intellectual property - ever.

Its that simple. I can't buy one thing from a company going bankrupt and then years afterward sell something else to another company (that originally belonged to the bankrupt firm)- because I don't own it!  Get it guys? Escom never owned Amniga OS. So Gateway couldn't transfer it to Bill because they didn't legally buy it (they couldn't because Escom never owned it).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2011, 11:15:14 PM »
Awe... its a dull Tuesday night and I can't even get a decent argument round here, I've got about 400 channels of shit on the TV (only thing worth recording was the new series of "Deadliest Catch" to watch at about 4:am when I have me dinner)... :)

Just finished RetroBrighting all me old VIC 20 & C64 cases and started on my miggie cases now so I aint got any space left and am surrounded by froth and UV lamps (getting a nice tan though) so I've got nowt better to do tonight than hang around here chewing the fat with all you lovely peeps... :)

Could be worse, I could be over the road with a white sheet on me napper putting the willies up old Mrs Johnstone through her bedroom window... :eek:

C'mon Iggy stir things up a wee bit cos the other side have chickend out with the same old replies and quotes over and over again... ;)
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2011, 11:22:11 PM »
Quote from: Franko;633809
Awe... its a dull Tuesday night and I can't even get a decent argument round here, I've got about 400 channels of shit on the TV (only thing worth recording was the new series of "Deadliest Catch" to watch at about 4:am when I have me dinner)... :)

Just finished RetroBrighting all me old VIC 20 & C64 cases and started on my miggie cases now so I aint got any space left and am surrounded by froth and UV lamps (getting a nice tan though) so I've got nowt better to do tonight than hang around here chewing the fat with all you lovely peeps... :)

Could be worse, I could be over the road with a white sheet on me napper putting the willies up old Mrs Johnstone through her bedroom window... :eek:

C'mon Iggy stir things up a wee bit cos the other side have chickend out with the same old replies and quotes over and over again... ;)

Frankly Franko, they can't counter they argument that AOS is an abandoned work. There is no ownership claimed for this product until three years after the copyright holder was dissolved.
Bloodline's right. It's a tainted property and by all rights its copyrights should not be valid.

BTW - What's Mrs. Johnstone look like?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2011, 11:32:24 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;633810
Frankly Franko, they can't counter they argument that AOS is an abandoned work. There is no ownership claimed for this product until three years after the copyright holder was dissolved.
Bloodline's right. It's a tainted property and by all rights its copyrights should not be valid.

BTW - What's Mrs. Johnstone look like?


Bit like this on a normal day... :eek:



But she polishes up well when needs be... :)



Seeing as no ones got any good counter arguments, anyone fancy a game of I Spy... :D
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2011, 11:42:22 PM »
Quote from: Franko;633813
Bit like this on a normal day... :eek:



But she polishes up well when needs be... :)



Seeing as no ones got any good counter arguments, anyone fancy a game of I Spy... :D

Nope, I was thinking of putting out my little eyes after that one.
And your right. i think we wore them out.
Time to go dig up a DVD-R that Xdelusion sent me.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2011, 12:00:36 AM »
Quote from: dammy;633794
For those who think that copyrights are limited to individual countries, please reference to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_agreements


Iran ftw! :D
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2011, 12:06:19 AM »
Ok... seeing as no one wants to play I'll just have to play with meself here... :)

Here goes...

I Spy With My Little Eye... something begining with "M"... :)
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2011, 02:45:22 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;633808
Again, if a company is insolvent and its assets are liquidated in a bankruptcy, it can not transfer assets to another company afterward as it no longer exists.
Bernhard Hembach was an employee of Escom. He is the individual that signed for all three parties in the three contracts that supposedly transferred the rights of this intellectual property to Gateway - this occurred three years after Commodore signed a  "Trademark Assignment" agreement with Escom, long after CBM and Commodore-Amiga were liquidated.
The only legal approval of this agreement was from a German notary.

These documents are absolutely NOT valid as Escom never obtained the rights to Amiga intellectual property - ever.

Its that simple. I can't buy one thing from a company going bankrupt and then years afterward sell something else to another company (that originally belonged to the bankrupt firm)- because I don't own it!  Get it guys? Escom never owned Amniga OS. So Gateway couldn't transfer it to Bill because they didn't legally buy it (they couldn't because Escom never owned it).


By that chain of logic, Commodore Holdings has the asset.
Dammy

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Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline vidarh

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2011, 06:10:38 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;633734
I know of no such law. A property owner can try to obtain a cease and desist order and send e-mail or letters requesting the removal of material they object to.


There is no such thing as a "cease and desist order". Anyone can write a letter demanding the recipient "cease and desist" with something - it has no legal power other than serving as proof later that you asked them to stop before you went to court.

There is however the DMCA, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Under the DMCA, any US hosted content can be requested removed by anyone who claims to be the rights holder. Unless the person responsible for uploading the content files a counterclaim, the company or person hosting the content is then legally obliged to remove the content regardless of whether it has been proven in court that the person requesting removal has rights to it (however, if they don't have rights to it, the person hosting it could have legal redress if they take the matter to court, and anyone requesting removal of content they don't own rights to would have committed fraud)
 

Offline lsmart

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #44 from previous page: April 27, 2011, 06:14:14 AM »
Quote from: Franko;633724

If they or whomever had and they felt they could prove this in a court of law then I'm pretty sure they would have taken action long ago to shut down such sites.


If this is the whole reason for the discussion, I´d say with a lot of respect: "you guys are retarded."