Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?

[Iggy]

It recent threads here and ot AimgaWorld and MorphZone this question has been discussed,.
Are Amiga Inc's claim to ownership of AOS valid.
Franko has made an interesting point, when placed on the Web for download Kickstart and AOS files have not faced challenge.

Andeas Wolf has sent me the following references (via MorphZone) which I find revealing.

http://sites.google.com/site/freeamiga/#TOC-1997-1998%3Cimg%20src=
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/169254.shtml
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=575947
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=588275

I, personally, am of the opinion that AInc claim is invalid (which would then make Hyperion's license invalid).
What do all of you think?

[Franko]

I honestly don't believe A.Inc would be able to challenge or lay claim to anything other than purchasing the rights to use certain TradeMarks & Logos...

There are countless sites out there where you can download KickStart ROM image files and WorkBench Disk sets, now you're not going to tell me that A.Inc doesn't know or at least has come across some of these sites...

If they or whomever had and they felt they could prove this in a court of law then I'm pretty sure they would have taken action long ago to shut down such sites. As no-one has then this just confirms my belief that no-one is either able or willing to challenge this in a court of law for the simple reason being that they know they could never prove ownership and all they could prove is the right to use certain Tradmarks & Logos...

Reckon after all these years of speculation and BS that this was finally challenged and put to rest one way or the other...

Side note: Everyone should start up a website and place the KickStart ROM Images & WorkBench Disk sets on them for free download, pretty sure not many will be challenged and any who are can simply ask for proof of ownership before having to shut down their site, best of all this can all be done for next to nothing...

[Crom00]

Isn't there a new law passed in the USA that allow authorities to shut down any website guilty of hosting unauthorized copyrighted content? Don't you think anyone with legitimate claims to IP would use such a law?

[Franko]

Isn't there a new law passed in the USA that allow authorities to shut down any website guilty of hosting unauthorized copyrighted content? Don't you think anyone with legitimate claims to IP would use such a law?

Wouldn't matter in the rest of world what laws the USA has passed, and even if there is such a law those claiming to own the IP would first have to prove that they did own it and somehow I don't think A.Inc would be in a position to do so...

[Boudicca]

If they or whomever had and they felt they could prove this in a court of law then I'm pretty sure they would have taken action long ago to shut down such sites. As no-one has then this just confirms my belief that no-one is either able or willing to challenge this in a court of law for the simple reason being that they know they could never prove ownership and all they could prove is the right to use certain Tradmarks & Logos...

All Rights Reserved. In other words, we lay claim, we may pursue and at our leisure.

IP/Copyright law isn't worth a penny unless there is some merit and profit in pursing it, I have no doubt that infringement of Amiga Inc's rights are often not pursed, simply because there isn't any money in it.

If someone took any IP/copyrighted material and turned over a million dollar profit, I have no doubt a lawyer somewhere will plead to represent AINC in the matter for a nominal fee and the letters would land on the carpet of the offender.

Enforcement of and the Breaking of, the law is not as simple as it first sounds when applied in absentia of a victim.

[Rob]

Isn't there a new law passed in the USA that allow authorities to shut down any website guilty of hosting unauthorized copyrighted content? Don't you think anyone with legitimate claims to IP would use such a law?

I believe Gary Peake was very pro active when it came to issuing cease and desist notices.

In answer to Iggy's question, I would say that Amiga Inc's claim to Amiga OS is valid until proven otherwise.  To be honest I don't expect anyone to come forward and claim it is theirs, although this is Amiga so anything is possible.

[Iggy]

All Rights Reserved. In other words, we lay claim, we may pursue and at our leisure.

IP/Copyright law isn't worth a penny unless there is some merit and profit in pursing it, I have no doubt that infringement of Amiga Inc's rights are often not pursed, simply because there isn't any money in it.

If someone took any IP/copyrighted material and turned over a million dollar profit, I have no doubt a lawyer somewhere will plead to represent AINC in the matter for a nominal fee and the letters would land on the carpet of the offender.

Enforcement of and the Breaking of, the law is not as simple as it first sounds when applied in absentia of a victim.

Did anyone read those references?
It is entirely possible that Escom and Gateway did not have the right to sell the OS (if they ever did sell it) as it may not have been properly transferred to them in the first place.
Which could very well mean that only licensees that dealt with Commodore before bankruptcy have a legal claim to use AOS.

Further, if Escom, fgateway and Amiga Inc. have never been the legal owners of AOS, how long would be needed before it lapsed into public domain?

[Iggy]

Isn't there a new law passed in the USA that allow authorities to shut down any website guilty of hosting unauthorized copyrighted content? Don't you think anyone with legitimate claims to IP would use such a law?

I know of no such law. A property owner can try to obtain a cease and desist order and send e-mail or letters requesting the removal of material they object to.
What makes you think the US can control websites when they couldn't even challenge Wikileaks over classified material?

[fishy_fiz]

Not that I really care too much, a large percentage of the remaining users have pretty much stripped my interest in Amiga in recent times, but I wonder what happened to stop Amiga Inc. stop persuing people illegally offering kickstart roms for download ? As anyone who has been around for a while will probably remember, a few years back they were heavily persuing people for doing it, and quite successfully at that. Now is such a stark contrast that I wonder if there's something behind the turnaround.

[Digiman]

Wouldn't matter in the rest of world what laws the USA has passed, and even if there is such a law those claiming to own the IP would first have to prove that they did own it and somehow I don't think A.Inc would be in a position to do so...

That law is being rushed through. If passed it allows MPAA/RIAA (maybe other orgs) to instantly remove a domain from the internet worldwide without a trial.

News about COICA
There are renewed efforts by senator Leahy to reintroduce the COICA bill this year, which will allow to censor on demand any website the entertainment industry of the United States dislike. Practices like this are common in countries like Iran or China, the difference here is that the site they choose to target will be censored in the whole world.

[Digiman]

Sod Hyperion, can we just find out if Cloanto are legal?

[broken]

Side note: Everyone should start up a website and place the KickStart ROM Images & WorkBench Disk sets on them for free download, pretty sure not many will be challenged and any who are can simply ask for proof of ownership before having to shut down their site, best of all this can all be done for next to nothing...

I am pretty sure Commodore Amiga Iran will have your back in case the legal vultures come a knockin'.

Fight the man! Download all the kickstarts and WB disks right here, Free!

[Fats]

In answer to Iggy's question, I would say that Amiga Inc's claim to Amiga OS is valid until proven otherwise.  To be honest I don't expect anyone to come forward and claim it is theirs, although this is Amiga so anything is possible.

I agree. I do know I don't own the Amiga IP and nobody has given me any rights concerning this IP either. That's what counts for me. I don't like the principle of doing things one can get away with.

cowardly yours,
Staf.

[Franko]

I agree. I do know I don't own the Amiga IP and nobody has given me any rights concerning this IP either. That's what counts for me. I don't like the principle of doing things one can get away with.

cowardly yours,
Staf.

Well there's a start, we can rule Fats out of the ownership contention...

@ Digiman

Still doesn't matter to the rest of the planet if this law is being made in the USA courts or even by the American government, the rest of the world has their own laws and governments so such a law could never be legally enforced by the USA unless other countries governments & lawmakers agree to it...

[mongo]

I, personally, am of the opinion that AInc claim is invalid (which would then make Hyperion's license invalid).

Than who do you think owns it?