Hyperion Entertainment: Clarification of Current Situation

[Iggy]

My main problem with the "NG" is that there's nothing NG about them, they have the exact same limitations as old AmigaOS3 and suffer from the exact same problems.

You mean like only being able to run on genuine Amiga, being limited to about a 75 MHz processor, with no modern expansion bus or video card suppor support, right?

[XDelusion]

Hmm, so what all this mean is...

We still got AROS for the poor people amongst us (ME!), MorphOS for those of us who have a spare few bucks to spend (Me at some time in the past), and OS 4.x for people who have so much money they look for ways to throw it away, such as a $2000 plus dollar hobbie computer.

Now what I'm excited about is the fact that some day when I got money again, there should be better FPGA options to choose from. Then I can have MorphOS, AROS, and Work Bench on modern hardware seeing as I can't afford an OS 4 solution, and keeping classic Amigas fully functional and upgraded isn't exactly affordable by me anymore anyhow.

 Anyhow, all Hyperion needs now is friendly customer and community relations.

[kolla]

You mean like only being able to run on genuine Amiga, being limited to about a 75 MHz processor, with no modern expansion bus or video card suppor support, right?

No, only being able to address the same limited ammount of RAM, no memory protection, no security, no SMP, same ancient and outdated networking stacks.

[kolla]

@kolla

A-EON is involved in a few projects at the moment which involve both OS 3 and OS 4 versions to be developed at the same time.

The developer involved has commented on the huge differences and advancements between OS 3.9 and the current 4.1 in terms of core libraries.  This has slowed development down as a lot of AmigaOS 3.9 functions have to be patched or written from scratch.

Hardly surprising, but just because OS4 is different does not mean it is so much better. From what I have heard, between AROS, MorphOS and OS4, it is the latter that stands out as the oddball that is tricky to support. Anyways, my understanding is that MorphOS may break away from legacy soon and become the first true Amiga NG system.

It would be great from a developers point of view if OS 3.x was keeping pace with OS 4.1 in development terms as it would make porting a lot easier.

They can target AROS instead and improve the OS too.

[Iggy]

Amigas can handle 1.5GB of memory?
I mean, I'm sure the OS could address it, but I don't think a 68k processor can, nor do I think you could stuff that much into an Amiga.
Then there is support of html5, DVD playback, better sound solutions, tinyGL, etc.
Sure, Amigas with OS3.1 can handle all that, right?

[aGGreSSor]

Hmm, so what all this mean is...

We still got AROS for the poor people amongst us (ME!), MorphOS for those of us who have a spare few bucks to spend (Me at some time in the past), and OS 4.x for people who have so much money they look for ways to throw it away, such as a $2000 plus dollar hobbie computer.

I love the Amiga classics, but it really is a hobby. That's what makes Hyperion & A-EON properly called Platform. Let it is expensive, but it's a matter of trade circulation. Cheap available Amiga - utopia. All that is done in a sufficient amount fall in price. It's inevitable. I know that AROS community obdurate. I see that MorphOS leaders don't have vision. Exchanged for the small stuff. Pay your attention: Amiga still single-user computer! How much is rewritten to be on par with a Windows for workgroup? The truth is here. A lie is always pronounced as "We don't need it!". ixemul.library - it's humiliating. I'd rather wait for that Hyperion tired of poking POSIX dirs in AmigaOS filesystem , than the idea came to MorphOS / AROS developers..

[kolla]

Amigas can handle 1.5GB of memory?
I mean, I'm sure the OS could address it, but I don't think a 68k processor can, nor do I think you could stuff that much into an Amiga.

What makes you think so? Ask AmigaKit how many 256MB BigRAMPlus cards you can use in a 5 zorro slot A4000T?

And anyways, how is that relevant? My point is that OS4 etc do not support more either, and in being OS3 "compatible", it is stuck for no good reasons.

Then there is support of html5, DVD playback, better sound solutions, tinyGL, etc.
Sure, Amigas with OS3.1 can handle all that, right?

None of that is impossible because of limitations in the OS, that is correct. What is impossible is to prevent any piece of software from monitoring and reading any address in the memory of the computer, with all the implications that has in the age of online banking etc.

[Iggy]

What makes you think so? Ask AmigaKit how many 256MB BigRAMPlus cards you can use in a 5 zorro slot A4000T?

And anyways, how is that relevant? My point is that OS4 etc do not support more either, and in being OS3 "compatible", it is stuck for no good reasons.



None of that is impossible because of limitations in the OS, that is correct. What is impossible is to prevent any piece of software from monitoring and reading any address in the memory of the computer, with all the implications that has in the age of online banking etc.

What makes me think so?
Because only the 040 and 060 can address that kind of memory (and then only with an mmu).

And, as I stated before, Zorro bus is too dated.
You want to run your memory via that?
Seriously, anytime you want to benchmark any Amiga against my G5 you'll see how rediculous your statements are.

[itix]

It would be great from a developers point of view if OS 3.x was keeping pace with OS 4.1 in development terms as it would make porting a lot easier.

Would it help if I ported OS4emu to Os3? It would not run OS4 native software of course but would make porting OS4 software easier.

[wawrzon]

Would it help if I ported OS4emu to Os3? It would not run OS4 native software of course but would make porting OS4 software easier.

Imho it would pay more if you helped with aros 68k or adopted your mui netsurf frontend the last source or something like that. I dont know what os4 software would actually justify looking for compatibility except sdl or qt ports, but then even these might be easier achieved with aros.

[smerf]

Anybody know if OS4.1 final edition will work on the A1200 with a ppc card. I have OS 4.1 but it isn't the final edition, is there any difference, will the final edition run faster then just OS 4.1 will eliyahu bring the hammer down on Gertsy, Will oldsmobile mike get the banhammer, stay tuned to this channel for more important facts. Gosh eli does your name have to be so hard to spell, you should get banned from this website just for that.

[eliyahu]

Anybody know if OS4.1 final edition will work on the A1200 with a ppc card. I have OS 4.1 but it isn't the final edition, is there any difference, will the final edition run faster then just OS 4.1 will eliyahu bring the hammer down on Gertsy, Will oldsmobile mike get the banhammer, stay tuned to this channel for more important facts. Gosh eli does your name have to be so hard to spell, you should get banned from this website just for that.

:laughing:

but as for your initial question, yes, AOS4.1 FE will run on your 1200/PPC just fine. dunno what the performance difference is like on the classics. graphics performance is better on my peg2 compared with u6, though.

-- eliyahu

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Anybody know if OS4.1 final edition will work on the A1200 with a ppc card. I have OS 4.1 but it isn't the final edition, is there any difference, will the final edition run faster then just OS 4.1 will eliyahu bring the hammer down on Gertsy, Will oldsmobile mike get the banhammer, stay tuned to this channel for more important facts. Gosh eli does your name have to be so hard to spell, you should get banned from this website just for that.

There's a few videos on Youtube showing performance.  I couldn't find a really good one though.  Maybe you'll have better luck finding one than me?  I'd be curious to see it, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pETp6EQ5wQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWDg8qSX1eI

Hope no one gets banned!    :hammer:

[Iggy]

There's a few videos on Youtube showing performance.  I couldn't find a really good one though.  Maybe you'll have better luck finding one than me?  I'd be curious to see it, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pETp6EQ5wQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWDg8qSX1eI

Hope no one gets banned!    :hammer:

I have been banned before.
No big deal.
I still keep in touch with Franko (so does Cammy, and you don't see her around anymore, of her on accord).

And while I know that an original Amiga will with OS4 (with a PPC card), at an ungodly expense, it still won't have more than a fraction of the power of an NG system.

Also, Amigas won't run MorphOS above 1.4.

AND, when it X5000 is released, Amigas won't be able to have the ability to support what may follow (SMP, Radeon HD cards, etc).

You can try to piss in my cornflakes, but I know I'm running a better solution.

I have real Amigas, I like NG systems more.

And they DO have advantages.

[amigakit]

I am using an A1200T here and also my X5000.  I am very much wanting to shorten the software gap between them in terms of whenever software technologies can be developed mutually for both.  I think that Classic Amiga's have gone long enough without some investment in new software, but I accept that some advancements do not make sense on Classic due to the limited CPU power.  However maybe in a few years time, FPGAs may make some things viable for Classic ?

[wawrzon]

I am using an A1200T here and also my X5000.  I am very much wanting to shorten the software gap between them in terms of whenever software technologies can be developed mutually for both.

understandable, but the current situation is a result of very long politic of abandonment towards amiga and there is no sign that it has changed, what concerns whomever has their say about os4. i doubt you can do anything about it, except if you had influence on the os4 development, which i doubt you have. and even if it was so, it appears that os4 had introduced a number of changes which actually enforce incompatibility. so except one wanted desperately to follow their path, which im not sure would be convenient for technical reasons one might rather concentrate on alternatives that to date appear more compatible, more flexible, open and disposable. guess, what im talking about..