Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: amigadave on August 12, 2007, 09:15:56 PM
-
About a year ago I took advantage of a company/government group buy discount from Dell and purchased what was to be my ultimate desktop computer that would hopefully last me several years into the future and satisfy my work computing needs. Having the newest and highly regarded Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, 2gb of RAM and a pair of high end graphics cards, I thought it would be the fastest computer I had ever experienced. At first I did nothing to test the speed of this monster, but then reluctantly, I let my 13 year old son use it occasionally to play a couple of online games. It seemed to be up to the task, but now almost a year after purchase it seemed to be one of the slowest computers I have used in years. It seems to take a huge amount of time to do just about anything. I have purchased spyware detectors, adware removers, registry cleaners, and nothing seems to make a difference. I am at the end of my rope and ready to download any and all files that I need to save and completely wipe the hard drive and start with a fresh install of XP Pro to see if I can remedy the speed problem. I hate to do this as it will take hours, if not days to re-install and reconfigure and re-enter all the information for email, passwords for different sites, putting files back where programs can find them, etc.
Does anyone here have a suggestion to save me some grief and hours of frustration? :-?
-
I'm afraid it's impossible to give generic instructions or answer to this one. You'd need to have physical access to the box to be able to really make a difference.
If you have time and a spare HDD, there's one thing you can do to determine if it's sw or hw issue:
- detach the original HDD from the system
- attach the spare HDD
- install windows xp pro, and drivers required for the system to function
- install whatever sw that was slow before and test it. Is it slow still?
If the system is slow still, then it's HW related issue. If it's fast, something in the old installation is screwed, and unless if you have skills and patience to find out what then reinstall is the only cure. The benefit here is that at least you're not screwing up the existing installation.
One common cause for massive system slowness is fragmentation of the page file or NTFS Master File table (MFT). To find out if this the cause, launch defragmenter and Analyse and check the results.
-
Thanks Piru, I will try defragmenting first and then remove the hard drive and install an identical hard drive that I have that is empty (had an unsuccessful Linux installation on it).
Amiga.org member help is the greatest and fastest on the Web! :-D
-
The standard windows xp defragment can't defragment the pagefile or MFT though.
Pagefile can be defragmented with PageDefrag (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Utilities/PageDefrag.mspx).
With 2GB memory, this is unlikely to be the cause for the slowdown, however.
Massive fragmentation of system files and/or MFT could still slowdown the system, but it should be limited to cases when something is loaded from / saved to the HDD.
-
Is it safe to defragment while still using a web browser and the TV tuner card?
My slowdown is mostly noticed on start-up, which takes minutes, not seconds, and when opening programs. Shutting down also takes longer than I would like, but is not as bad as starting and opening programs.
-
Yes
-
Just reformat and reinstall WinXP. That will cure your ills. It should be done once a year in any case to remove 'debris'
-
@hamtronix
But then you have to put the debris right back on. :python:
I'd like to see how this one goes, in any case. The solution might come in handy down the line. OR, I can sound smart if someone asks me for help with this sort of problem. :idea:
-
@hamtronix,
That is what I am trying to avoid, it is a pain in the a$$ that I don't want to go through.
Here is a copy of the defragment report:
Volume (C:)
Volume size = 228 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 53.56 GB
Free space = 175 GB
Percent free space = 76 %
Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 0 %
File fragmentation = 0 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %
File fragmentation
Total files = 99,791
Average file size = 693 KB
Total fragmented files = 0
Total excess fragments = 0
Average fragments per file = 0.99
Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 2.00 GB
Total fragments = 1
Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 11,296
Fragmented folders = 1
Excess folder fragments = 0
Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 110 MB
MFT record count = 111,338
Percent MFT in use = 99 %
Total MFT fragments = 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Files that cannot be defragmented
2 604 bytes \Program Files\AmiKit\AmiKit\Utilities\AMPlifier
3 12 KB \Program Files\AmiKit\AmiKit\Utilities\Eagleplayer\Engines
3 604 bytes \Program Files\AmiKit\AmiKit\Libs\xad
4 16 KB \Program Files\AmiKit\AmiKit\Locale\Catalogs\deutsch
I will see if programs open faster now and Windows does not take several minutes to open and start being usable.
-
Is the Master File Table normal after running the defragment? Percent MFT in use is 99%??? Is that okay?
I'm so confused.
-
I found that cleaning up my WinXP's PreFetch folder helped my boot times a lot. There are many programs on my system that I only use occasionally and dumb Winblows was prefetching them every bootup.
Instructions Here (http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2003/2003-09-22.htm#7)
-
One good utility is CCleaner (http://www.ccleaner.com/). Just be careful not to purge useful things like cookies, etc.
One other thing to check is to make sure the CPU isn't set to "Compatible" in the BIOS.
-
CCleaner is definitely good to have and can eliminate a lot of old junk. Also XP-lite might help on removing the unnecessary trash as long as you don't overuse it. Also CachemanXP is worth to install.
One thing worth to check is if the computer is clean from the dust and all fans are working.. Some Intel machines keep on working a lowered CPU speed if they overheat.. Some people have not remembered to clean their systems resulting slowdown on systems trying to cope..
Another, as mentioned is to check what stuff gets started a bootup.. Plenty of programs install themselves waiting, having those pesky icons at the bar ans wasting boot time and system memory.. It should not be so much problem on your system as it has considerable amount of Ram but it might help.
-
Get a Mac and say goodbye to yearly OS reinstalls.
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
Get a Mac and say goodbye to yearly OS reinstalls.
--
moto
I agree, and I do have a MacBook. I am keeping an eye on the work being done to install MacOS on non-Mac hardware and hope to have Leopard running on my Dell some day. But there a couple of programs that I have not found available for the MacOS or AmigaOS, so I have to use Windows for at least a couple of work related programs. It is a shame that there are not more Mac programs and that the ones that are available are so expensive and slow to upgrade. I dream that MacOS and/or Linux will actually force some competition for Windows someday and programmers will finally have a reason to write for more than one platform.
Thanks to the others who left suggestions.
-
motorollin wrote:
Get a Mac and say goodbye to yearly OS reinstalls.
--
moto
Install Debian and say hello to never reinstalling the OS. ;-)
-
The best thing to do is to give this PC to your son and buy yourself a new one. And don't let him touch your new PC!!
:)
I'm sure your son knows more than you think about PC's and will probably fix the machine as soon it becomes his!
-
ah, the same old slowdown in windows machines... lame new software storing settings in registry, lame uninstallers that won't erase the above registry keys , crap from internet... even the fastest pc after a year can suffer from slowdowns...
the ONLY software I have found all these years that can actually make a difference in speed (by cleaning registry and files) is TUNEUP Utilities (http://www.tune-up.com/) , download it and let it clean the registry, you will surelly notice a speed improve.
sadly, after a while you will need to re-istall windows to fully fix things...
old/young/inexperienced people always contribute to pc slowness LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
It's weird that I've never witnessed such slowdown over time myself.
Then again I keep my system quite tight, and don't install every spyware infested app. ;-)
-
yes , if you choose what to install you are OK, but many people fell for the web-traps in webpages, or install useless software for the joy of it... I have seen both...
-
One thing i have never understood is why people never make backups (true image, ghost etc) to cover their ass, it is down to the users sheer ignorance that they blindly install garbage that causes tons of problems then {bleep} and moan when things go tits up, that a simple backup could save the day in mere minutes but windows and the users common sense does not mix.
People have been saying "make a backup" for years upon years but falls on deaf ears, but who cares when we can blame microsoft.
-
Piru wrote:
It's weird that I've never witnessed such slowdown over time myself.
Then again I keep my system quite tight, and don't install every spyware infested app. ;-)
+1
I have a 2K-pro system here that's been on the net for a couple of years, it's still just as quick as it was at install.
I recommend actually -using- the firewall (not just clicking allow to every requester like most people do) and regular defrag and virus scans, oh and stay off the pr0n sites.
It's just like having a car;
-regular service.
-dont let you teenage son drive it.
-no weekend bush-bashing.
-drive safely.
:-D
-
I tried a commercial uninstaller called advanced uninstaller pro for 30 days and i found it made a dramatic difference to my PC as it removed alot of stuff that had been left behinf when uninstalling and it cleaned up the registry as well. Using defrag also helps but i found that you have to run it a few times consecutively to defrag the hard drive properly: even after it finishes and tells you drive is defragemented you can run it again and it will continue to defrag, upto a POINT.
-
Have a look at task manager, once the computer is booted and in a useable state.
Have a look at running processes - make sure you're looking at processes for all users.
I am a bit nuts over this, but I hate background processes running, hogging ram, that really aren't needed.
On my XP machines, with no actual programs running, I have 24 processes running, and xp is usually eating a couple of hundred Mb of ram.
I have seen people with 50, 60, 70 processes running when the machine is "idle" - and my god does a machine like that run slowly.
Have a look at a good services guide - you can disable 5 or so quite happily.
Then run msconfig, and disable any taskbar crap you don't need - I don't know what without having a look at the machine, but WinZip quick pick, quicktime, that kind of thing.
If you have inadvertently installed it, get rid of Google Desktop Search - it's horribly slow (unless you use it *all* the time, I know some people love it, but if you don't, just lose it).
Try and get the machine down to 30 processes or less, but especially indexing stuff like Google Desktop.
Your son hasn't accidentally put something like Seti@Home or Folding or something on, that is using the cpu all the time?
Personally I believe the install Windows every year is also a myth, but also like Piru, I tend not to install anything I don't know or need.
Hope that helps!
-
@Piru & Coldfish
While what you say is true in 99.99% of cases, Windows can (not always) get its knickers in a twist all by itself over time. I've seen it happen on completely closed systems - no new software, no internet connection.
-
Personally I believe the install Windows every year is also a myth, but also like Piru, I tend not to install anything I don't know or need.
Yeah, I agree that reinstalling Windows every year is a complete myth. My current build of XP is 3.5 years old (C:\Windows\ folder was created January 22, 2004) and this system is nearly as crisp as it was when I first installed it.
And, to be honest, I beat the snot out of this system. It's a workstation that sees some work. I haven't been kind to this Windows build, by any means. I've installed, un-installed, tested, forgotten, so much stuff on here, it's crazy. As a platform, it still runs well, though. My 3D Mark benches are still within a couple percent of my baseline figures back when I had a clean install.
And to be honest, most of that change has been due to driver updates and revisions, more than anything else. I always benchmark before and after installing driver updates, and those cause a bigger difference than the difference between the last "applied driver update" test and the new "before driver update" test, which would be several months to a year later.
Now, what are some things I'd check out? First off, as rightly suggested, examine the hardware. Is anything overheating? (Chipset, CPU, Gfx cards, etc.?) Heat will cause errors, and errors slow down systems.
Also, somewhat under hardware, I'd update the BIOS and clear all your CMOS settings to default and then go back and enable the proper speedups. It sounds like a really strange step, but I've seen newer drivers have problems on older BIOS revs. Also, those CMOS settings can really goof things up if one very hot summer day your BIOS decided you needed to have your RAM timings adjusted, etc... Clear CMOS, Update BIOS, Clear CMOS again, let it auto-detect, and then make any final adjustments you want.
Also, under external hardware... If you don't already have one, go get yourself an external firewall. Make sure sure it's set to NAT and to disallow all incoming connections. (And, for god's sake, don't just get one and then put your computer in the DMZ. You may laugh, but you'd be amazed how often I see this...) Lock the firewall down, then open up the few incoming ports you need for whatever games/P2P stuff you use. Make sure all other incoming is blocked. And by all means, never ever allow incoming on the 135-139 MS RPC and file/print sharing ports.... EVER! Do this, even if you choose to run a software firewall. Why? Simple. Software firewalls 1) don't always work, and 2) take up many valuable CPU cycles handling the useless crap that comes down the wire to your machine. If you eliminate the useless crap upstream of your box, your CPU doesn't have to receive the packet, decode it, compare it to the ruleset, etc.
Next -- drivers! Get yourself the newest reference drivers possible for your system. Now, Dells have started sucking in this regard, as the last few I worked on weren't real happy with a couple of the reference drivers, . But install as many things with reference (manufacturer [ex. nVidia, Intel, ATi]) drivers as possible. Only use the OEM drivers [Dell, Gateway]) as a last resort. They're usually older, contain more bugs, and contain all kinds of crap you don't want, anyhow.
Next -- DirectX! Download the latest version from microsoft.com and install it. Even if you're already on DirectX 9.0c, do it. There are like 5 different 9.0c revs out there, and who knows what the heck all the bugs are between them. The only way I know of to define "current" is to use the one Microsoft gives ya today. :P
Next... What IS using the CPU and resources, anyhow? Use the computer like normal, only just leave it running for a couple days straight. Don't reboot it, don't shut it down. After a day or two, check the task manager and sort by "CPU Time". Check out what the top few offenders are, and make sure they're stuff you need. (System Idle Process, System, and explorer.exe you need. ;-) ) Also, as stated, probably around 30-35 active processes is the "sweet spot". Much more than that, and you need to trim some crap, because it'll start taking a serious hit on your performance. I know you can trim down to that level, too. Because I currently have 32 processes, and have AVG AntiVirus fully protected, my PocketPC Sync tray, my Motorola mobile phone tools, Daemon Tools, ClamTray, uTorrent, Firefox, Sun JavaVM, etc, all running... Like I've said, I'm not kind to this system... I USE it. A LOT.
If AV software, firewalls, etc are consuming too many resources, you might want to consider a different vendor for those. Personally, I don't use a software firewall at all, and use AVG Free for Virus Protection and ClamWin for virus scans of everything I download/test.
What I DO try to do, though, is keep all the spyware, crapware, and viruses off the system. Run the active AV software. Browse with Firefox. Don't load too much garbage from download.com and things like that. If you need a utility, try to go with the GPL alternative. Search SourceForge and the like. You're a lot less likely to get a download stuffed with 18,000 "helpful" toolbars and assistants...
DEFINITELY DON'T LOAD TOO MANY MEDIA CODECS AND DECODERS!! Those MegaCodec packs you find online... AVOID THEM! Only get CODECS for stuff you actually use, and make sure you download them from the original author's site. There are lots of infected/corrupt/obsolete/poorly coded CODECS out there. And Windows will fall flat on its face because of them. Sometimes to the point that the only way to clean the system does become a complete re-install.
Good lord... What a lengthy response. I should probably write a book on this or something. :-P
-
The single most important thing Ive done to speed up WinXP pcs......
REMOVE AOL anything. The instant messenger installes sooooo much nonsense it slows a machine down to completet unusability.
If you must have it disable launch on startup via the preferences menu. Did this to my girlfriends laptop and it's like a new machine.
The startup items that are pre-installed slow a machine down so remove what you don't need.
-
hamtronix wrote:
Just reformat and reinstall WinXP. That will cure your ills. It should be done once a year in any case to remove 'debris'
I have never - ever - done this. My current windows installation was made as Win95OSR2 in 1997 (parallel to WfW3.11), then updated somewhat later to Win98SE, then a couple of years ago to XP Pro. Of course I didn't just throw the new OS at it, I cleaned out anything system related before.
The current XP SP2 is ~2.6 GB in size which isn't too bad considering the age. I can still run ancient Corel Draw 5.0...
The most important thing is: watch out what you install and how. Don't activate 'agents', 'quick load options' and all that crap since all that stuff loading during boot and running in the background all the time (when you don't need it) can get the fastest machine down to a crawl.
I've cleaned out lots of Windoze machines from colleages, friends that had unbelievable amounts of junk in their systems. All these so called system optimizer, "we make Windows faster", memory doublers are just a bunch of crap. A lean and clean system is a fast system.
Of course you'll have to watch out for spyware and trojans as well. Don't install anything from a source you don't trust 100%, especially not anything you just downloaded from somewhere...
And don't use Internet Explorer. :oops:
-
Have you tryed cleaning the computer internaly that might be the problem?
-
uncharted wrote:
@Piru & Coldfish
While what you say is true in 99.99% of cases, Windows can (not always) get its knickers in a twist all by itself over time. I've seen it happen on completely closed systems - no new software, no internet connection.
0.01% = unlucky.
Yeah, it can and does happen, but more often its due to faulty hardware, usually the bit between the screen and seat.
:-P
-
It might be you have an Anti Virus program or tool with an option activated causing it to monitor/viruschecks in realtime all file accesses/reads/writes. That slows down things a lot.
Or a tool that maintains some database.
A tool called FileMon (google for it) which is similiar to SnoopDos on the Amiga might give some hints.
I once had a rootkit virus which also caused massive slowdown.
-
REINSTALL XP
-
If the problem is most notable during startup, try de-fragmenting your registry. I have noticed dramatic performance increases (especially at startup) after optimizing the registry using Registry Mechanic.