My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[number6]

They didn't, some people are just confused (some people even believes Hyperion owns the OS and owns the Amiga trademarks, which they of course don't).

Here is the situation after the settlement:

Hyperion has built a house (OS4). They have built it by heavily relying on construction materials (Amiga OS 3.1) that are *loaned* (and then they added their own stuff to the construction as well).

Hyperion actually acknowledge in the settlement that the loaned bricks and planks (Amiga OS 3.1) used to build the OS4 house are indeed owned by Amiga Inc. And then Amiga Inc acknowledge in the settlement that the house is owned by Hyperion, *except* for the loaned bricks and planks they used to actually build the house, which *are still* owned by Amiga Inc!

Now, who owns the house?

And to connect to the quoted statement above, is there really *any* winners from way the court case ended?

We both know your question is rhetorical.
Of course not. The old adage is that a settlement is succesful if both sides extricate themselves with an equal amount of disappointment.

#6

[Dandy]

I see where you're coming from now, but I think you're reading too much into it.

Yeah - I simply stumbled across the language barrier and mis-read it.

...
Apparently Barry thought there was some viability to a collaboration or he wouldn't have contacted A-eon/Hyperion. It's not difficult to believe that CUSA's schedule and A-eon's schedule don't intersect.

Now this is more obvious - sorry for the confusion.

Besides, what CUSA product would these people waiting on the X1000 jump ship to? The CUSA waiting line?

Well, I can only speak for myself.
And when I read that a new Comodore incarnation would want to take the Amiga platform to a new level I felt a mix of unbelieving amazement and pleasant anticipation initially. But this was replaced by disappointment when I read that their new hardware would be a bog standard x86-PC mobo in a re-created all-in-one classic case, meant to run an Amiga-like skinned Linux derivate - mostly for gaming purposes (WHD load) - which would presumably not be able to run native 68k apps.

As I'm not interested in gaming, but in CAE/CAD/CAM/robotics/CNC and all sort of engineering tools in general, I lost all initial hope of ever being able to run my old 68k Amiga apps covering these fields (which are still fully usable in 2011, b.t.w.) on their new systems.

Furthermore I moved from my trusty, old A500 to the A4kPPC in a BigTower because of the better expandibility as soon as I could afford it. Although I had expanded the A500 to the limit I had need for more expandability.

As I doubted that any of C=USAs new devices could offer me this expandability, I realised that I don't belong to their target group.

Basically I don't mind the idea to run the Amiga OS on x86 systems because of their prices and availability, as long as that means I can still use my old native 68k CAE/CAD/CAM/robotics/CNC-apps and all my old 68k engineering tools, which have cost a fortune back in the day (e.g. 2.500 DM just for DynaCADD).

As I would need those apps only for hobby purpose today (e.g. to design and build an steam operated H0 scale steam locomotive that can be remote controlled from the Miggy on a model railway), I don't like the idea of having to spend a fortune again on buying Linux equivalents for all the engineering tools I already have on 68k. Even without that I still would have to spend enough cash on the required CNC machines, when it comes to the realisation of the project.

As far as DynaCADD is concerned, I already contacted the author and asked him if he sees a possibility for a native OS4 port and he answered yes...

Furthermore the announced capabilities of the A1 X1k of controlling hardware, DSP functions, robotics, display might come in very handy for the project - so I'm really looking forward to learn what that XENA is all about and if/how the project could benefit from it.
The estimated 2000€ for that box would still be less expensive than buying all the engineering tools for Linux...

So I wish C=USA luck for their nostalgic x86-Linux gaming boxes in all-in-one retro cases - unfortunately I doubt I will have any use for them.

[Dandy]

@Dandy

I think this is a simple misunderstanding on your part.

Yes.
Fortunatedly jorkany was patient enough with me to make me aware of my misunderstanding.

I want to in no way criticise your English skills (I struggle enough with German, though I don't give up my coloquitur often does),

Then all the best for your German skills...
;-)

but as a native English speaker I found no hint of negativity towards the x1000 only that it wasn't suitable for the C=USA needs.

Yeah - once I knew how to read it my concern vanished into thin air...

[takemehomegrandma]

The old adage is that a settlement is succesful if both sides extricate themselves with an equal amount of disappointment.

Indeed, well put.

[Fats]

And to connect to the quoted statement above, is there really *any* winners from way the court case ended?

Hyperion has the exclusive right to market, develop, sell AmigaOS 4. AFAIK they are not legally bound to PPC anymore. I think Hyperion would consider this advantageous for them.

Amiga Inc. has the Amiga trademark to license. Probably they also consider this advantageous, we'll see how good this turns out. They are not allowed to compete with AmigaOS 4 and beyond though.

greets,
Staf.

[takemehomegrandma]

Hyperion has the exclusive right to market, develop, sell AmigaOS 4. AFAIK they are not legally bound to PPC anymore. I think Hyperion would consider this advantageous for them.

If some rich entity would turn up at Hyperion's office and say: "Hey, that's one cool OS you have got going there, Can I Byu It? I'd offer $50 millions!", then Hyperion *couldn't* sell it, even if they would want to (which they probably would).

They probably can't even use it as security for a loan, since it's not their property.

The only way they can get *any* kind of return of their investments, is from sales of individual copies of the OS, which is now tied to the sales of Sam460 and the "x1000". Sales that will be counted in the lower end of 2-3 figures.

Anyway, we aren't talking about a lot of money here...

Amiga Inc. has the Amiga trademark to license. Probably they also consider this advantageous, we'll see how good this turns out. They are not allowed to compete with AmigaOS 4 and beyond though.

Amiga Inc still owns and controls *all relevant* (in 2011) IP. The way I see it, they aren't the losers in the deal.

If licensees like Commodore will actually score by hitting some real market, they (the Amiga IP owners) can make good money in royalties!

[Belial6]

Well, I can only speak for myself.
And when I read that a new Comodore incarnation would want to take the Amiga platform to a new level I felt a mix of unbelieving amazement and pleasant anticipation initially. But this was replaced by disappointment when I read that their new hardware would be a bog standard x86-PC mobo in a re-created all-in-one classic case, meant to run an Amiga-like skinned Linux derivate - mostly for gaming purposes (WHD load) - which would presumably not be able to run native 68k apps.

As I'm not interested in gaming, but in CAE/CAD/CAM/robotics/CNC and all sort of engineering tools in general, I lost all initial hope of ever being able to run my old 68k Amiga apps covering these fields (which are still fully usable in 2011, b.t.w.) on their new systems.

Furthermore I moved from my trusty, old A500 to the A4kPPC in a BigTower because of the better expandibility as soon as I could afford it. Although I had expanded the A500 to the limit I had need for more expandability.

As I doubted that any of C=USAs new devices could offer me this expandability, I realised that I don't belong to their target group.

Basically I don't mind the idea to run the Amiga OS on x86 systems because of their prices and availability, as long as that means I can still use my old native 68k CAE/CAD/CAM/robotics/CNC-apps and all my old 68k engineering tools, which have cost a fortune back in the day (e.g. 2.500 DM just for DynaCADD).

As I would need those apps only for hobby purpose today (e.g. to design and build an steam operated H0 scale steam locomotive that can be remote controlled from the Miggy on a model railway), I don't like the idea of having to spend a fortune again on buying Linux equivalents for all the engineering tools I already have on 68k. Even without that I still would have to spend enough cash on the required CNC machines, when it comes to the realisation of the project.

I don't know why you would think that.  CUSA's machines will certainly be able to run 68k code.  They will do it the same way that any of the PPC Amiga solutions would run it, via emulation.  PPC processors do not run 68k code natively any more than an x86.  CUSA has stated that they have the rights to distribute the original Kickstarts and Workbenches, and that they will be integrating UAE into their distribution.  This means that all of your existing 68k applications should work just as well on a CUSA system as on an OS4 or MorphOS system.

[smerf]

@EdanaII,

If it won't have an Amiga-like OS, then C=USA is making a fatal mistake. Better to call it the Commodore Colt or the Commodore PC10 than the Amiga.

You know I forgot about the Commodore Colt, brings back memories, trying to convince people to buy the Amiga instead of the Colt when I worked for Commodore as a salesman.

smerf

[Franko]

Hi smerf...

Methinks your fibbing, telling porky pies, winding us up...

COMMODORE... SALESMAN...

No such beastie every existed, that's like saying I once worked as a hitman for Mother Teresa or I sold seashells on the seashore...

Wind up... Surely...

Franko

[smerf]

Did you read the article I linked? Coke did all the right things, made all the correct choices, except for one thing: they ignored the "cult" that supported them.

When entering a new market, or in this case, being a new entry into the market, don't ignore your early adopters. It could make all the difference. And who are the early adopters in an Amiga branded market? Ummm... all you have to do is read here and get the majority of opinions. At least, you can get a good idea of who they aren't.

If it won't have an Amiga-like OS, then C=USA is making a fatal mistake. Better to call it the Commodore Colt or the Commodore PC10 than the Amiga.

If they don't, those prodigal Amigans they do bring back will end up wondering why their "Coke tastes funny."

People who own A4000s aren't silly enough to fall for this C=USA stuff

Hi,

@Digiman,

I own 2 A4000's

One that is working and one that I am trying to fix, and I also own 2 A3000's in same situation.

I sort of like what C-USA is doing, and had planned doing something similar myself except I was going to butcher an A500  and a C64, put an mini AT board in them and run an emulator, windows xp and possibley Ubuntu.

Sooooo

I will take this as a personnel attack on me because you are saying I am silly. (sniff, sniff, tears in eyes) get him red.

my wittle smerf feelings are hurt,

smerf

[smerf]

Hi smerf...

Methinks your fibbing, telling porky pies, winding us up...

COMMODORE... SALESMAN...

No such beastie every existed, that's like saying I once worked as a hitman for Mother Teresa or I sold seashells on the seashore...

Wind up... Surely...

Franko

Hi,

I sure did work for Commodore, I worked for them for three years as a salesman, and won salesman of the year for three years straight Selling Amiga 500' s, Amiga 2000's, Colts, PC10's and PC20's. The funniest event I had was when a women walked in and told me she wanted to buy a hard dick for her husband on his birthday. I calmly showed her some of the new 10 megabyte and 20 megabyte hard disks that we had in the store and then I and the Apple salesman died laughing when she left.

smerf

[Franko]

Hi Smerf

:lol:

Yup back in the old days if you had a 10 megabyte hard dick it was thought of as being huge but if you had 20 megabyte one you were called Errol Flynn...

Franko

[Dandy]

I don't know why you would think that.  CUSA's machines will certainly be able to run 68k code.  They will do it the same way that any of the PPC Amiga solutions would run it, via emulation.  PPC processors do not run 68k code natively any more than an x86.  CUSA has stated that they have the rights to distribute the original Kickstarts and Workbenches, and that they will be integrating UAE into their distribution.  This means that all of your existing 68k applications should work just as well on a CUSA system as on an OS4 or MorphOS system.

Hmmmm - I have to admit that once I lost interest in their products, I didn't follow their annoucements closely any longer and just read what I stumbled across on the fora.

Initially it looked like they wanted to put AROS on their machines besides Linux, but then I read that this would be not viable because of legal reasons.

But AFAIK, even AROS does not run native 68k apps without having them re-compiled.
And currently there is no hint that the apps I need are going to be re-compiled anytime, as they mostly have been discontinued a loooong time ago.

So I assumed the C=USA systems just ran Linux. Of course one can install UAE and emulate a classic environment that way, but this is not the way OS4 does it. While UAE emulates the entire classic hardware, OS4 just emulates the API. That's quite a difference to me - at least technically.

And practically as well - hardware banging stuff won't work any longer.

I'm fully aware that "PPC processors do not run 68k code natively any more than an x86" - but that's not what I said.

Instead I said: "as long as that means I can still use my old native 68k ... apps" - I did not say that I wanted to run my old 68k apps natively on the PPC.

Anyhow - even if I could really run native 68k soft on CUSA systems, I would still have the issue of the all-in-one cases obviously not being as expandable as the A1 X1k cases.

And expandability is what I need for my projects.

Furthermore I already hinted that XENA might come in very handy for my project.
On C=USA systems I'd have to add an external solution, while the X1000 has that built-in.

[Dandy]

Hi Smerf

:lol:

Yup back in the old days if you had a 10 megabyte hard dick it was thought of as being huge but if you had 20 megabyte one you were called Errol Flynn...

Franko

Hi Franko,

Not wanting to brag about size here - but back in the old days I had two 65 mB RLL harddisks connected to my A500 via Omti RLL controller and 'ct-interface - just curious how that would have been called...
 :biggrin:

[Dandy]

Hi Smerf

:lol:

Yup back in the old days if you had a 10 megabyte hard dick it was thought of as being huge but if you had 20 megabyte one you were called Errol Flynn...

Franko

Hi Franko,

Not wanting to brag about size here - but back in the old days I had two 65 mB RLL harddisks connected to my A500 via Omti RLL controller and 'ct-interface - just curious how that would have been called...
 :lol:

[bloodline]

@Dandy

FWIW AROS 68k can run original amiga apps, that's the point of AROS