PC still playing Amiga catchup

[jkirk]

I look at the drivers for the hard drive, thanks, I am using MS ones.

check all your drivers particularly your sound, chipset, processor(if available), and vid card. i think the hd will always show up as an ms driver.

the problem with the default drivers(ones on the vista disk) is though they are written by the manufacturer (in some cases) they have to make the driver very generic due to space constraints on the cd(or dvd) as such much of the hardware acceleration is missing(or not working efficiently) so the inital install drivers are just to get you going till you can aquire the real drivers.

HDTV CRT: Geez you would've paid a packet for that new.  I've read the best CRT can still outdo the best plasma/LCD for responsiveness, color balance and sharpness.  Do tell: what model is it?

it's been a while since i bought it but i think i paid $700 for it new wile lcd panels were still $1500 to $2000.

[Daedalus]

HDTV CRT: Geez you would've paid a packet for that new.  I've read the best CRT can still outdo the best plasma/LCD for responsiveness, color balance and sharpness.  Do tell: what model is it?

Even an average CRT can still outdo LCD in many areas. I still use a lovely 32" Philips CRT without HD and I find it nicer to watch most things with than most LCD panels. Don't get me wrong, the image from a good 1080 LCD and a PS3 is incredible! But LCDs constantly disappoint me in the low light or high contrast areas compared to a decent CRT, which probably cost about half as much.

[smerf]

Even an average CRT can still outdo LCD in many areas. I still use a lovely 32" Philips CRT without HD and I find it nicer to watch most things with than most LCD panels. Don't get me wrong, the image from a good 1080 LCD and a PS3 is incredible! But LCDs constantly disappoint me in the low light or high contrast areas compared to a decent CRT, which probably cost about half as much.

Hi,

Go to this site if you want to find out which OS rules, it is a great site and the person reviewing the OS's hit the nail right on the head.

http://www.catonmat.net/blog/musical-geek-friday-every-os-sucks/


smerf

[smerf]

Hi,

@bloodline,

excuse me, I will take my 3.1 operating system and load it into my old, slow, obsolete Amiga 4000 faster than you could load your Apple, Linux, or Windows whatever operating system. So there take that, stick that in your floppy disk (oops you don't have one) and smoke it. And I heard your music and don't like it anyway, even if you do have a small recording studio, the Amiga beats you there too, it has big equipment for big good recordings, but then what do you expect out of a Mac except a lot of noise.

smerf

Hi,

I would like to recognize Wayne and Bloodline for not being trolled into any of my rants and raves, Wayne you can take a lot of hits and I think that is fantastic.

Bloodline, couldn't troll you into anything either, I like your music as different as I think it is, it is very good.

Had to clear this up, just trying to get a hit to see what you would think.

anyhow Gentlemen, good going, I had to clear this up and you both spoiled my fun

smerf

[smerf]

YAWN!!!! This thread still going :confused: I lost interest around a 1000 posts ago...

Hi,

Then what are you doing here?

smerf

[smerf]

Oooh, I always wanted a HD CRT! What model is it?? Could only find one on sale in Ireland when I went looking, and it wasn't great. I'm still gutted the whole world went with LCD seemingly to do with fashion rather than quality. I still have a lovely Trinitron monitor for my computer and a (non-HD) Philips CRT TV.

As for the artifacts, it's not just the responsiveness of LCD panels, a large part of it is simply the compression used by the digital broadcaster. It's like what you see when you watch a YouTube video for example, fast changing lines don't survive the compression particularly well. This will also show up on a full 1080p panel with a 1080p source if it's to do with compression. And HDTV signals tend to be compressed like that, so even with a full-HD decoder and a full-HD TV, you'll get more artifacts on channels which use more compression.

Hi,

I have a Sony Braveria, 52 inch HDTV, that runs at 60 hz or 120 hz, looks mighty nice to me and I haven't noticed what you are talking about. Maybe it just because I am half blind.

smerf

[Hammer]

Problem is more about getting all states of joysticks regardless of what a human's reaction time is.

Using Microsoft Habu gaming mouse (powered by Razer), I was able reach less than 1.0 ms e.g. 0.041 ms, 0.004 ms.

[alexatkin]

Using Microsoft Habu gaming mouse (powered by Razer), I was able reach less than 1.0 ms e.g. 0.041 ms, 0.004 ms.

For a mouse that is totally relevant.  A mouse can detect your movements down to a really really small degree.  If you are playing a FPS and precisely controlling your movement it is perfectly possible that you might want to turn around quicker than the screen refresh rate can achieve smoothly, in fact its pretty much guaranteed.  

A digital joystick on the other hand is something you can only make decisions on what direction you need to press based on the last screen refresh, so capturing any quicker is of no use.  How is it useful to know if you pressed left then right between screen refreshes when it only needs to know what you are doing right before it updates the screen?

If you were pressing left, then quickly shifted to right but the screen refreshed right before the joystick registered right, then that should naturally count as you pushing nothing.  It knowing more information would not make any difference, the value right at the moment the game logic needs it is what you want.  Its not like you are going to be changing the game several time between refreshes as then the game would seem out of your control as you can only react to what you can see and hear, and those events would be triggered on the refresh.

So seriously, if you were refreshing the joystick port so fast you could register that you pressed left, then nothing, then right - how exactly does that help the game?  It just makes everything more complicated.  Your game does not need to know what you were pressing a few ms ago.

[amigaksi]

For a mouse that is totally relevant.  A mouse can detect your movements down to a really really small degree.  If you are playing a FPS and precisely controlling your movement it is perfectly possible that you might want to turn around quicker than the screen refresh rate can achieve smoothly, in fact its pretty much guaranteed.  

A digital joystick on the other hand is something you can only make decisions on what direction you need to press based on the last screen refresh, so capturing any quicker is of no use.  How is it useful to know if you pressed left then right between screen refreshes when it only needs to know what you are doing right before it updates the screen?

If you were pressing left, then quickly shifted to right but the screen refreshed right before the joystick registered right, then that should naturally count as you pushing nothing.  It knowing more information would not make any difference, the value right at the moment the game logic needs it is what you want.  Its not like you are going to be changing the game several time between refreshes as then the game would seem out of your control as you can only react to what you can see and hear, and those events would be triggered on the refresh.

So seriously, if you were refreshing the joystick port so fast you could register that you pressed left, then nothing, then right - how exactly does that help the game?  It just makes everything more complicated.  Your game does not need to know what you were pressing a few ms ago.

No the more accurate version is to take into account joystick state the instant it changes.  All other means are approximations.  As I said numerous times, what difference does it make if I sample audio at 22Khz or 44Khz-- not much but logically there's a difference if you know there can be frequency components that won't get captured at 22Khz.  And what difference does it make if it's losslessly compressed audio or MP3.  You may not experience a difference but that's looking at it subjectively.

[koaftder]

there's other things Amiga can do besides compare processor speeds. Why don't you try reading the joystick at 1Khz while doing all those things?

teh epic joystick thread. a.org hall of fame

[koaftder]

No the more accurate version is to take into account joystick state the instant it changes.  All other means are approximations.  As I said numerous times, what difference does it make if I sample audio at 22Khz or 44Khz-- not much but logically there's a difference if you know there can be frequency components that won't get captured at 22Khz.  And what difference does it make if it's losslessly compressed audio or MP3.  You may not experience a difference but that's looking at it subjectively.

The great joystick man who denies signal bounce in his own data and talks about KHz this and Hz that and truck loads of stuff but never mentioned Nyquist.

[ejstans]

As I said numerous times, what difference does it make if I sample audio at 22Khz or 44Khz-- not much but logically there's a difference if you know there can be frequency components that won't get captured at 22Khz.

What exactly is this difference?

[recidivist]

The highest audio  tone that can be captured is very slightly less than one-half the sampling rate of an analog-to-digital convertor.
So the 22khz rate will not save sounds much above 10kHz and will result in music missing the highest harmonics,whereas 44(actually 44.1kHz) sampling will save all the sounds even the best human ears can hear,that is up to 22kHz.Most people  lose the hearing of higher pitched sounds as the person ages,especially if exposed to lots of loud sounds.

[Methuselas]

• Most people  lose the hearing of higher pitched sounds as the person ages,especially if exposed to lots of loud sounds.

I guess we're all screwed then, after listening to Amigaski's banter. :roflmao:

[ejstans]

The highest audio  tone that can be captured is very slightly less than one-half the sampling rate of an analog-to-digital convertor.
So the 22khz rate will not save sounds much above 10kHz and will result in music missing the highest harmonics,whereas 44(actually 44.1kHz) sampling will save all the sounds even the best human ears can hear,that is up to 22kHz.Most people  lose the hearing of higher pitched sounds as the person ages,especially if exposed to lots of loud sounds.

Bzzt, but thanks for playing even though the question was addressed to a different person...

[alexatkin]

The highest audio  tone that can be captured is very slightly less than one-half the sampling rate of an analog-to-digital convertor.
So the 22khz rate will not save sounds much above 10kHz and will result in music missing the highest harmonics,whereas 44(actually 44.1kHz) sampling will save all the sounds even the best human ears can hear,that is up to 22kHz.Most people  lose the hearing of higher pitched sounds as the person ages,especially if exposed to lots of loud sounds.

But how anyone can compare sampling a digital joystick to sampling analog audio, is beyond me.

With audio, its quite obvious that capturing as much accuracy as possible, especially during mixing/mastering, is useful.  The more accurate data you have, the more accurately you will be mixing it.  So that once you drop it back down to 44.1 or 48Khz, you are getting a better approximation.  Thats just plain maths, the more precision the better the more accurate the result.

Now a digital Joystick?  Nobody has yet explained how being able to tell what happened to the joystick between screen refreshes actually has any bearing at all on a game.  Yes sampling quicker is more accurate, nobody every denied that.  But accuracy is only any good when its actually useful.

A mouse its useful to sample quicker, the electronics can counteract any questionable result that way (especially led/laser mice, you could get a rogue reflection from dust, a crack, poor mouse mat) and most of all - there will be less lag from the mouse itself.

Just look at LCD TVs.  The biggest lag on an LCD TV is not the pixel response time, its how quickly the TV can process the signal and actually tell those pixels to change.  That is one reason why a cheap TV and an expensive one often can be really different, even if they are using the same LCD panel.

So yeah, the Amiga joystick port is fast, and it might be useful if you are using it for some custom purpose rather than a joystick.  But then if you are going that direction why use such old technology when you could just use a modern PIC using far far less electricity.  I mean its a silly argument as there are things the Minimig can do that neither the Amiga nor PC can do, but that does not mean PC is trying to catch up to it.