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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Amiga_CDTV on February 24, 2012, 09:21:28 AM
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Long time follower now joining discussion.
After long fiddling with some "basic" Amigas (currently own A1000, A500 and A1200) I finally bought myself a majestetic Amiga 4000T (by Amiga Technologies) from eBay.de.
Due to language/comms. problems I received very little information about the system before getting it. The ad on eBay basically said "working" but from the pictures I already saw some parts were missing. Anyway I decided to bid on it - expecting nothing less than a project! After several weeks of waiting, I have now received the thing! :)
I have just opened the parcel and noted the following:
- case is basically fine, but the front is very yellowed. Door is Ok. Stinks like previous owner have been a heavy smoker...
- the disk drive module was loose inside the case (!!) but looks fine
- the AV-module is missing
- no keyboard or mouse was included
- SCSI and IDE cables were included, but detached
- installed devices: 2x SCSI hard disks (capacities yet unknown), 2x floppy disk drive and a CD-ROM drive
- has Kickstart V3.1 (V40.70) ROMs installed
- motherboard is a Rev 4
I have plugged the power plugs in and powered the system up, but can't really say anything about it! Disk drives spin, cd-tray opens and closes, power light comes up etc. My first issues will be A) getting a video output and B) getting a suitable keyboard.
I will be doing some googling myself after work, but at the moment I am wondering about the following:
1) as far as I have read, an adapter can be made for using a CDTV keyboard with the 4000T - correct?
2) for the display I have two options; to buy a new AV module (anyone?) or buy some flicker-fixer expansion card and use it's vga output? (Thus still missing audio, but at least getting forward).
3) how do I remove the HDD's? Do I need to remove the front panel and the whole thing where the disk are? I can see that the top-most drive is a Quantum Fireball.
All ideas, suggestions and tips are warmly welcomed!
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Wow, she is indeed yellow.
I had one of these which i really regret selling and they are fine machines. Do you have the CPU card with it?
You could try Vesalia, maybe they have an AV board, but honestly you will be wanting an RTG card like the Picasso IV (Thats what i had).
You could try putting in a workbench disk and see if you can hear the disk boot up.
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Look like you are missing the SCSI module as well? Do you have it and its just not installed? I've got a spare of each, but haven't given much thought on selling them. As there is no way to get video out without the AV module you stuck for now. PM and we can talk about the modules.
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Hi
it's a nice machine :-)
The Yellow, looks more lige a Sun problem rather the Smoke to me..
i hope you can find a A/V Card..
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Yeah, I guess it's mostly the sun yellowing, as the floppy- and cd- drives are only yellowed under the window. But it stinks, too! I have always wanted to try Retr0bright, but haven't got anything this yellowed. Might try that, one day!
I do have the SCSI module (called it disk drive module on the opening post), that was the one loose, now installed back. I should have all the SCSI cables, too.
I have ordered an Indivision AGA Mk II (for my A1200) which I could also use on the 4kT, if I ever receive it (now ETA March 2012). But I still think I will get the AV module.
mdivancic: I will try eBay and some other places first, then PM you. The AV module wouldn't be too much pain to post to FIN, but will try to find a nearer one first. Thanks, anyway.
dougal: Only now I realised I don't have a CPU card! :furious: I see one A3640 on eBay.de, might try on that one. Or should I prefer searching something higher specsed?
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dougal: Only now I realised I don't have a CPU card! :furious: I see one A3640 on eBay.de, might try on that one. Or should I prefer searching something higher specsed?
Well i guess an A3640 is pretty good but i believe Cyberstorm MKII (040 or 060) is probably better. I am no longer up to date on the A3000/A4000 CPU/Accelerator cards, but i believe the Cyberstorm MKII will allow you to have up to 128MB 32 bit fast ram on it.
My A4000T had a Cyberstorm MKII 060 and it was fast but when i added a Picasso IV graphics card it put it in a whole different game.
The A4000T is an amazing machine and you have loads of upgrade options.
Take care of it and build it up at your own pace :)
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Once it has been fumigated and you have video output then you should have one hell of a nice machine there. :)
As for the keyboard, I've been using a PS-2 adapter with my towered A4000D (same for the mouse). Now replacing a keyboard means spending $10 at Walmart.
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Once it has been fumigated and you have video output then you should have one hell of a nice machine there. :)
As for the keyboard, I've been using a PS-2 adapter with my towered A4000D (same for the mouse). Now replacing a keyboard means spending $10 at Walmart.
Yes. I used to use the Lyra2 PS/2 adapter on my A4000D. It works very well with practically any PC PS/2 keyboard, though i must admit nothing beats the feeling of using an original Commodore/Amiga keyboard.
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Yes. I used to use the Lyra2 PS/2 adapter on my A4000D. It works very well with practically any PC PS/2 keyboard, though i must admit nothing beats the feeling of using an original Commodore/Amiga keyboard.
Oh I agree with you. There's something special about the genuine Commodore keyboards. The fact that my A2000 and A3000 keyboards still work perfectly after decades of use says a lot about how modern PC ones are manufactured.
I got my A4000 off eBay with no keyboard or mouse so I was forced to hunt down a substitute and the PS-2 adapter was easy to get hold of. Plus, I'd been using PS-2 keyboards with my Minimig and C-One for ages so I'd kind of got used to them.
I use a Logitech keyboard on my A4000 with 2 USB ports on it. The USB connector next to the PS-2 connector then plugs into my Deneb card so I don't have to keep reaching around the back to insert a pen-drive. :)
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Thanks, everybody :)
My current vision is to build an adapter so I can use my black CDTV keyboard with the A4kT. Should be easy, but some things about the 4000T are hard to verify due to very limited internet resources about the topic. I agree on the special feel of the genuine Commodore keyboards!
Firstly I will need the CPU, I'll try to get the basic A3640. I just want to get the machine up and running, then wonder about which Amiga OS to use, and then how much CPU and RAM I'll be needing. I have a feeling this will take years! :laughing:
I have already been looking at some parts from Vesalia (and sent a query about the AV module).
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Retrobrite the case... might get some of the smell off too.. I just bought some unix workstations and they smelled like cigarettes too... the smoke forms a layer, need to clean it up..
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Thanks, everybody :)
My current vision is to build an adapter so I can use my black CDTV keyboard with the A4kT. Should be easy, but some things about the 4000T are hard to verify due to very limited internet resources about the topic. I agree on the special feel of the genuine Commodore keyboards!
Firstly I will need the CPU, I'll try to get the basic A3640. I just want to get the machine up and running, then wonder about which Amiga OS to use, and then how much CPU and RAM I'll be needing. I have a feeling this will take years! :laughing:
I have already been looking at some parts from Vesalia (and sent a query about the AV module).
The A4000t uses the same keyboard pinout as the A2000/3000(just follow these pinouts). You could either internally rewire the cdtv kbd to match or make an adapter. just be sure u get it right! Blowing a cia in the 4000t is bad because its surface mount and not socketed.
You have many choices on Accelerator cards..
the A3640 is ok,but lacks ram expansion-16Mb fastram limit.usually has leaking caps that are installed backward on many revisions-Yes! even rev 3.2!
Warpengine 040/40 excellent card, 128MB ram support,good scsi.
Cyberstorm MK2 is a good card,supports 128MB ram
Cyberstorm MK3 is better and has UWSCSI(68pin) to boot allowing 25MB/s + SCSI speeds with the right drives.supports 128MB ram
Cyberstorm PPC The best of the bunch! UWSCSI,128MB ram,Supports os3.9 as well as 4.x
GVP 4060dt Ok card but only supports the slow FastFileSystem.Scsi seems to work well, siupports 128MB
Apollo 4060-Usual apollo crap- Supports 128MB -scsi is mediocre at best and some have problems with these cards.
Quikpak 060 - the Only card to support EDO ram,up to 128MB.Some versions of these can be picky or may have problems.
for 040:
A3640 is not great,but will get you up and running cheap.
Warpengine 4040
for 060:
Go for the cyberstorm MKII(040 or 060),MK3(060),or PPC(060/50 and 604e/233)
mech
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Thanks, mechy, for your comprehensive list!
I have now bought a A3640 card from eBay. I shall start with it, check if other parts of the system work, and then start thinking about expansions and accelerators. Will check the caps on the CPU card first thing when I get it.
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Definitely a case for Retrobright treatment. Beautiful machine all the same, I've always wanted a 4000T, Commodore model even more. Sadly they don't seem to come up all too often in the Uk.
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I don't mean to hijack this thread in a different direction but it might be worth considering.......
I have a A4000T with similiar minor yellowing and I am thinking twice about retrobriting it.
1. I did the retrobrite process to my A4000D a little over a year ago and even though it is kept covered in a dark room when not being used, I have noticed a gradual yellowing coming back and it is not as white as when first done. There is info about this issue over at English Amiga Board and a possible fix by spraying a clear-coat on after the retrobrite process but I am concerned that this will alter the 'original look' by adding a different sheen or texture.
2. I have had a couple of bad experiences with retrobrite on A1200 cases. If I didn't get the whole procedure and time exactly right I noticed blotchiness and 'blooming' which was noticeable. If the same disaster happened to my A4000T case I would be beside myself with grief! :)
Opinions?..............
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My A4000T is looking so yellow that any improvement (even slight) would look great. When I get to the Retrobrightning, I will try some other yellowed plastic first, don't want to mess up with the A4000T!
Cleaning the outside of the case improved the smelling issue greatly, the machine is now bearable to have in a work room. The power supply looks like being filled with dust (and smell) so opening and cleaning it will be in my to-do list next.
The CPU-card and a temporary keyboard (A2000/3000 -one) are on their way. I am still missing the AV module. I have sent a PM to mdivancic but haven't received any reply yet.
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2. I have had a couple of bad experiences with retrobrite on A1200 cases. If I didn't get the whole procedure and time exactly right I noticed blotchiness and 'blooming' which was noticeable. If the same disaster happened to my A4000T case I would be beside myself with grief! :)
Opinions?..............
Yeah the blotching occurs if you dont put even layers of a very light coat... you cant just slap the stuff on (not saying you did haha) My advice is to get a brush from a beuty supply shop they use for applying tint or color.. and use that
@ Amicdtv
Nice amiga. Great to see a 4000T with the faceplate intact. Those A/V modules are hard to come by..good luck
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Update: I have now a suitable keyboard, and a A3640 CPU-card (which I still don't know if it works or not, see here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60963)).
I still don't have that AV-module, should the machine boot without it? I just tried, but it won't start booting from a floppy drive. The caps lock key on keyboard lights up and down so there is at least some life.
EDIT: according to this (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=56663) it should boot without the AV-mod. Perhaps it's something with the SCSI? I don't have the HDDs in at the moment, so the termination might be set incorrectly? Still, I am afraid it's still the missing caps from the CPU-module... hmm. :nervous:
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Quick side note, you mentioned that you ordered a Indivision AGA for your A1200 and were thinking of putting it in your A4000T. DON'T TRY IT!!!!! It wasn't made to fit in the A4000T and you could damage either by trying.
That said and done, there is an ongoing thread talking about your specific Accel. here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60963)
Good Luck!
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@Amiga_CDTV
You only need the disk module to boot.
Connect the SCSI cable to the terminator on the I/O module to stop scanning for SCSI drives and thus faster boot.
The J100, J104 jumpers are set to EXT?
Most likely the missing A3640 caps is the problem.
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Quick side note, you mentioned that you ordered a Indivision AGA for your A1200 and were thinking of putting it in your A4000T. DON'T TRY IT!!!!! It wasn't made to fit in the A4000T and you could damage either by trying.
That said and done, there is an ongoing thread talking about your specific Accel. here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60963)
The one I ordered is actually Indivision AGA MkII and it specially mentions A4000T, would that be Ok?
The thread about the accel. is mine, didn't want to put it all into this thread.
I will start replacing the caps on the CPU card. Not a problem as such, I just don't like working with SMD parts due their miniature size... especially now as the soldering pads are damaged and I need to rewire them!
hese7: Thanks. Will check the jumpers, too.
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Not much progress....
I replaced the missing caps to the A3640 card, but the 4kT is still not booting. Now I even came across a A3630 card (guaranteed working) but that doesn't work, either. With the latter in, it still won't start booting from floppy. Caps lock can be toggled on and off couple of times but then it goes off. Keyboard reset doesn't seem to work.
I am still missing that AV-module, have tried PM'ing mdivancic several times but don't seem to get any reply.
:(
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2) for the display I have two options; to buy a new AV module (anyone?) or buy some flicker-fixer expansion card and use it's vga output? (Thus still missing audio, but at least getting forward).
Indivision 4000. scandoublers and flickerfixers boards sometimes don't work that well with the AGA palette or LCD monitors.
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I have some back up components (mobo, cpu, memory)for my A4000T which I have been planning on eBaying. I may post them here on A.org before doing so. Maybe there is something I have that you need to complete your rig.
The Dawg
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I have now got the AV-module (thanks, mdivancic).
Unfortunately, the system still won't boot. I have a basic scan-doubler connected to the RGB-output and an LCD-monitor connected thrue VGA. When I power up the A4000, the screen goes on (there is signal coming) but the screen stays blank. No color changes, no flashes, nothing. On PAL mode (jumper on the motherboard) there is a small coloured line on the bottom of the screen (this is a very cheap scan-doubler, and should be normal).
What I think it's weird, is that the screen stays blank whether I have or don't have a CPU card installed. So it seems there is no boot system test going on?
I have tried re-seating the Kickstarts (haven't removed them, don't have an IC-puller at hand). All other jumpers look correctly set (I don't have any RAM at the sockets at the moment, does it matter how the SIMM size jumper is set then?).
I am kind of running out of ideas :confused:
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You don't need an IC puller for the Kickstarts, a flat-head screwdriver works fine.
Do you have spare oscillators (50 MHz, 28.375160 MHz) to try out?
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I was thinkin of pulling the Kickstarts with a flat-headed screwdriver, but I don't have one small enough for the job, at the moment. I will get one with me tomorrow. Also I think I'll grab my voltmeter and check the PSU voltages.
I don't have any spare oscillators.
There is one component (Y180) that has slightly hand-made looking soldering, see pic attached. Also there is a slight mark of heat on the trimmer next to it. What is the function of the trimmer (VC180)?
Btw: I was looking at the Y154 oscillator (28.375... Mhz). Is it supposed to be soldered in? Mine can be pulled off without difficulty. The Y104 doesn't come off.
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Don't know about A4000T I just pulled oscillators for3 motherboards and it is this way:
- A4000cr Rev D U104 not socketed, but U154 socketed.
- A4000 Rev B U104 and U154 socketed.
- A4000 Rev B U104 and U154 socketed.
So since Rev D is closer to age of your A4000T, I thing manufacturer decided to not socket 50MHz oscillator anymore to reduce costs and/or because of users were more tempted to experiment with overclocking and breaking something.
None of my 3 Y176 and VC190 are touched by soldering iron and I see no reason why that part should be hand assembled and hand soldered for A4000T.
More on VC190 http://amiga.serveftp.net/RTCrepair.html
I think no A4000 needs those clock circuit parts to be able to boot. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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I just removed the motherboard from the case. There was some strange marks on the board (about just under the other dodgy looking parts). Again I don't have too much tools to clean the board now (at work) but will try tomorrow with tools and cleaning stuff.
Hanzu: I had a look on your website. Do you have any interest to have a look on my 4kT motherboard? I am running out of ideas what to try next.
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I have officially quit Amiga repairs for others for reasons explained (in finnish) here: http://saku.bbs.fi/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?3/9250
But if I ever get my last foreign customers A4000 repaired I may take a look but promise me to get it out of my hand if it starts to last. I have bad habit to not give up easily. It would be wrong to delay that A4000 repair I took before quitting with another hard case.
The substance in your picture may be harmless process or flux marks that you still see on the solder side of new PC motherboards. It also looks like water stain that I see often in my real work. Either way clean it with isopropanol tipped cottonstick or what ever it is in english.
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Just something to look at. I had an A4000D a couple of months ago that had no video output. At first I thought it was the motherboard but it ended up being a bad power supply--specifially the +12 volt out was bad.
This is assuming the screen is totally blank. If it is black, the motherboard is probably good and the CPU card is not working. In the A4000D I'm referring to, I got the video to go from blank to black which told me the motherboard was ok by putting in a good power supply.
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I have measured the following from the PSU (with nothing connected to it):
+12v: 11.7v
+5v : 5.2v
-12v : -10.8v
-5v : -4.4v
The keyboards caps lock works couple of times but then it stops responding.
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The keyboards caps lock works couple of times but then it stops responding.
This has specific meaning.. either NO CPU card installed or BAD CPU.
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Seconded. Black screen and caps lock going off after a few presses indicates no CPU or CPU not working. The motherboard is working. Remove the CPU and you will get the same results.
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You get the same effect if some of the customs chips on the motherboard are not functional.
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I am proud to announce that the machine is working again :)
A local Amiga-techy took the motherboard for inspection and fixed it (faulty U106, details to follow).
I have just set the machine up and as I write this, it's humming on the background. The original SCSI hard drives were still properly set (SCSI Ids and terminations) and both work; there is even a complete Workbench 3.1 installation and a lot of software! Some of them in german, though.
I also installed an Indivision AGA Mk.II and the machine is now connected to a 22" LCD monitor (thrue DVI-cable).
I will post more photos and longer story here later.
This is truly an awesome machine! Thanks for all your ideas.
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That is fantastic. Well done for hanging in there. You gotta be proud of that unit.
Well done again. I have to say I had a **** of a day today and I am actually smiling and happy for you. Thanks for cheering a fellow Amigan up.
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Another Miggy saved!!! From a cosmetic angle, are you planning to retrobrite the case?
Mike
Sorry Amiga CDTV! I guess the retrobrite question was posed several times ago. I need to de-yellow some of my old cases, but need a guinea pig too.
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@gertsy: ;)
@Firedawg: I am interested in trying retrobrite. I have pretty nice enviroment to try it at work (a school) but I need to try it on something less valuable than the A4000T front, at first!
Some photos available here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/em0hrhtpazpkk0k/tPoKIZvLTo
I replaced the original AT- power supply with an ATX PSU (with an adapter from eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150804015544)). I also installed an Indivision Aga Mk.II (with dvi- output).
I found a working key for the lock on the front panel, and did some styling for it, see photos.
One of the two hard drives (old SCSI drives) is on it's way out (bad sectors, sometimes drops out completely), I'll try to backup it's files into the working one, if possible. I would like to keep some oldish SCSI- drive as the main HDD (but preferably just one, these two are quite noisy). If the current WB installation doesn't reveal any problems, I am happy to keep using it (rather than doing a re-install).
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@gertsy: ;)
I replaced the original AT- power supply with an ATX PSU (with an adapter from eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150804015544)). I also installed an Indivision Aga Mk.II (with dvi- output).
Just as a side note, had you wanted to stay original with the A4000T, the case is an Enlight AT Case and you can still buy drive rails, and matching AT power supplies. I've replaced 2 power supplies in my two A4000T's and everything hooks up fine with all the normal switches. I've thought about transplanting one of mine into a more exotic AT tower case, but I love mine too much as is.