Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Moto on December 01, 2009, 05:23:20 PM

Title: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Moto on December 01, 2009, 05:23:20 PM
Hello my fellow Amiga Brethren,

Can somebody tell me what USB sound cards are compatible with the Deneb/Subway USB controllers?  I have spent a good week searching for this answer but can't really find a definitive source of what works and what doesn't.  I have an old M-Audio Sonica and I plugged it in and it was immediately not recognized.  I see lots of $10 usb sound cards on Amazon (C-media chipset) but I don't want to buy something unless I know it works.  I'd love to be able to listen to some cleaner audio (mp3s, etc) on the Amiga.

Thanks in advance!

-daniel

PS:  I have a "new" old stock 4000T arriving today!  Will post a slide show if I can get my camera working.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Tension on December 01, 2009, 05:24:56 PM
I was under the impression they all worked...  Hmmmm.....
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Tension on December 01, 2009, 05:26:19 PM
Quote from: Moto;532128

PS:  I have a "new" old stock 4000T arriving today!  Will post a slide show if I can get my camera working.


I assume it's an AT model?  If it's a CBM one its gotta be worth a few grand!!
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Moto on December 01, 2009, 05:39:38 PM
I'm not expecting a CBM model but I'll let you know if that's the case.

Is there a standard for all USB sound cards?  I've been through all the Poseidon docs and I didn't see any kind of compatibility list at all.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Moto on December 01, 2009, 06:09:24 PM
Quote from: Moto;532136
I'm not expecting a CBM model but I'll let you know if that's the case.

Is there a standard for all USB sound cards?  I've been through all the Poseidon docs and I didn't see any kind of compatibility list at all.
To answer my own question, it seems there is a standard.  It's called USB audio device specification 1.0 -- so I imagine that the Poseidon stack will work with any of these devices.  I wish the documentation simply stated this.

Can anyone confirm this?  I can get one of the vanilla cards for about $3.50
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Matt_H on December 01, 2009, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: Moto;532141
To answer my own question, it seems there is a standard.  It's called USB audio device specification 1.0 -- so I imagine that the Poseidon stack will work with any of these devices.  I wish the documentation simply stated this.

Can anyone confirm this?  I can get one of the vanilla cards for about $3.50


At that price, I'd risk it.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: koshman on December 01, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
Actually, it shouldn't even have to be a typical sound card. Every external USB DAC, even an AV receiver with USB in for example, should be compatible with the said standard.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: platon42 on December 01, 2009, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: Moto;532128
Hello my fellow Amiga Brethren,

Can somebody tell me what USB sound cards are compatible with the Deneb/Subway USB controllers?  I have spent a good week searching for this answer but can't really find a definitive source of what works and what doesn't.  I have an old M-Audio Sonica and I plugged it in and it was immediately not recognized.

USB audio is only available for the Deneb. It will not work with the Highway, Algor or Subway controllers. There are two USB audio standards 1.x and 2.x (independent of the USB protocol version), which are not backwards compatible and only USB audio 1.x devices are supported. USB Audio 2.x devices are very very rare in fact.

What do you mean by "was immediately not recognized". This is not very helpful at all. PsdErrorlog/PsdDevlister? The AHI driver generated only supports mono/stereo at any bit rates between 8 and 32 bit per sample, but not multichannel modes and only rates up to 65KHz (because AHI uses a 16-bit word for frequencies :-( ).

If the soundcard does not offer such a PCM 8-32 bit mode at frequencies lower than 65 KHz, there's nothing much that can be done about it on the Amiga side. Most cheap USB soundcards do though.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: save2600 on December 01, 2009, 09:50:32 PM
I've been using a Creative Labs SoundBlaster X-fi with great results. This is a nicer external sound card with a lot of features. Some not even supported under AmigaOS, but it offers a superior s/n ratio and smoother sound I'd imagine than you'd get from a cheapie sound card.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: sandpiper on December 01, 2009, 09:54:24 PM
I bought a $3 USB sound 'card' on Ebay and it seems to work fine with a Deneb in my A3000 using AHI
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Moto on December 01, 2009, 10:27:24 PM
Yeah, there's a million of these things on amazon.  I got mine for 3.79 with free shipping.  

I saw the higher end ones on there such as Turtle Beach and Creative Labs but I figure I'd start low.  Besides even the cheapest one of these will sound much better than the poor Paula (for MP3s).  

BTW:  Amiga 4000T came in!  It's Smmmmminty new in the box but not a CBM model. I've taken pictures but I suddenly have a lot of work to do, so will post them later.  It's literally sitting next to me right now (almost as big as a person).
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: save2600 on December 02, 2009, 01:00:47 AM
Quote from: Moto;532181

BTW:  Amiga 4000T came in!  It's Smmmmminty new in the box but not a CBM model. I've taken pictures but I suddenly have a lot of work to do, so will post them later.  It's literally sitting next to me right now (almost as big as a person).


From DiscreetFX? You lucky son of a rat bastard!  lol
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: cv643d on December 02, 2009, 01:19:24 AM
I got a 2 dollar one from DealXtreme, haven tried it yet though.

You should buy one that have good audio quality though, many reviewers on DX mentioned some chepie USB soundcards sounded bad.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: PhatAgnus on February 27, 2011, 07:57:28 PM
Hi Chris, Quoting:

"USB audio is only available for the Deneb. It will not work with the Highway, Algor or Subway controllers." Bummer - I've got a Highway :(

Is this due to FlashRom requirements, CPU overhead, memory availablilty or something else? Wondering if a software-based 'usbaudio.audio' file could be written just as AHI typically seeks within its' root archives. If so, how would someone go about creating one?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: alexh on February 27, 2011, 08:37:52 PM
Id guess at bandwidth. The Deneb has Zorro III bandwidth for RAW audio and the Subway only has clockport bandwidth.

But just a guess.

I've got several Creative Soundblaster Live cards that I hope will work with my Deneb + AHI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USB_Soundcard_Soundblaster_Live.jpg
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: XDelusion on February 27, 2011, 09:09:18 PM
Now we all need is (Classic Amiga users and MorphOS users) something like this to work with these so they can support OctaMED S.S.

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/TheMaestrix
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: TheGoose on February 27, 2011, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: XDelusion;618277
Now we all (Classic Amiga users and MorphOS users) something like this to work with these so they can support OctaMED S.S.

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/TheMaestrix


Uh, I think I understand this thought? Does that stuff really work with OSS? What can you do? And can't do?

OSS +
Deneb +
TheMaestrix +
AHI +
USB sound card

-------------------------

total mess


My prediction.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: XDelusion on February 27, 2011, 09:31:50 PM
Sorry, I skipped a couple of words...
My finger is bandaged and it hurts to type (blame it on my 600's metal shielding, cut cut cut).

I meant to say we need something like the Maestro to emulate an old sound card and redirect it to ahi so we can use these USB sound cards with our favorite tracker software like OS 4.x users.


Just a theory, I've no idea if this will really work or not, but I'd hope so.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: TheGoose on February 27, 2011, 11:21:17 PM
Well never say never. Software wise, it has happened with Tocatta emulation, right? AHI drivers would be a 1st step...

Oh, and if I was ever to be plopped into an ancient sword fight out of no where, I would like a sword in the shape of a C=64 RF shielding. I would totally prevail.

Those things are the worst...
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: XDelusion on February 28, 2011, 12:16:51 AM
Quote from: TheGoose;618311

Oh, and if I was ever to be plopped into an ancient sword fight out of no where, I would like a sword in the shape of a C=64 RF shielding. I would totally prevail.

Those things are the worst...


Great choice!!!! Ha ha ha! :)
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: PhatAgnus on February 28, 2011, 12:51:19 AM
alexh: "Id guess at bandwidth. The Deneb has Zorro III bandwidth for RAW audio and the Subway only has clockport bandwidth."

Bandwidth or not, Poseidon (V4.4) generates an AHI listing upon recognition of the card, but no driver is available within AHI's default drawer. Is this just a file that's only 'supplied' or 'bundled' with the Deneb card? Should I've had this file within Poseidon's lha package? I'd like to try it against my Highway card even if the bandwidth would be poor.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: TheGoose on February 28, 2011, 01:01:02 AM
Ok, duh. So these things have an AHI driver - It's just some generic USB audio device driver, that Poseidon provides?

Pretty cheap might need to play with one.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: XDelusion on February 28, 2011, 01:35:37 AM
I'd love to see a list of tested and working cards.

I'll try mine when I get home.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: mongo on February 28, 2011, 01:53:03 AM
Quote from: PhatAgnus;618332
Bandwidth or not, Poseidon (V4.4) generates an AHI listing upon recognition of the card, but no driver is available within AHI's default drawer. Is this just a file that's only 'supplied' or 'bundled' with the Deneb card? Should I've had this file within Poseidon's lha package? I'd like to try it against my Highway card even if the bandwidth would be poor.


Isochronous transfers which are needed for a USB sound card are only supported on the Deneb.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: XDelusion on February 28, 2011, 02:09:10 AM
What is Deneb anyhow?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: mingle on February 28, 2011, 03:52:15 AM
This is why we need an accelerator card with built-in USB for those of use who don't have a big-box Amiga... :-)
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: PhatAgnus on February 28, 2011, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: mongo;618347
Isochronous transfers which are needed for a USB sound card are only supported on the Deneb.


Ahh. Very well then. Thanks for enlightening me. Guess I'm on the fence whether I'll upgrade or not, cause the Highway works without a glitch & I'm not so sure I want to tear into my A3000 yet again!
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Xanxi on May 12, 2011, 07:26:15 AM
Hello.

I'm digging this thread to ask a question.
I now have an el cheapo USB audio dongle that works well with AHI4 on my Deneb (A4000 with 40 MHz 040). However, when i use it with Songlplayer to play MP3, the sound is good up to low quality 22KHz but wacky on better rates.
I am wondering if there is any USB soundcard compatible with Poseidon that would bring hardware decoding to ease the CPU work (nice 16 bits 44KHz for instance).

Any idea?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on March 20, 2017, 01:03:01 AM
usb sound card on xsurf-100 with rapid road usb? anyone try yet?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: amiadudeorwat on March 20, 2017, 11:01:18 AM
Quote from: lost_loven;823618
usb sound card on xsurf-100 with rapid road usb? anyone try yet?

I haven't tried it but have heard reports that it works with the clockport version, but you need at least an 040 to play audio smoothly.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: jack-3d on March 20, 2017, 02:15:00 PM
Quote from: lost_loven;823618
usb sound card on xsurf-100 with rapid road usb? anyone try yet?
Yes I tried very cheap soundcard (5 EUR) and also other stuff and it works fine. Check my review: http://jack.untergrund.net/2016/07/15/test-of-three-zorro-usb-cards-for-amiga-en/
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: LoadWB on March 20, 2017, 07:16:11 PM
Quote from: lost_loven;823618
usb sound card on xsurf-100 with rapid road usb? anyone try yet?


Will soon.  I have a $3 USB 3D sound card from eBay I bought forever ago.  Works perfectly fine on the Deneb, I cannot imagine it won't work on the RapidRoad.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on March 20, 2017, 10:11:07 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;823639
Will soon.  I have a $3 USB 3D sound card from eBay I bought forever ago.  Works perfectly fine on the Deneb, I cannot imagine it won't work on the RapidRoad.


Sweet. any can recommend? names, ebay links? knowing my luck I will get some cheapo one and it wont work lol! Is there a chip set better in some than others or does it not really matter these days?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: LoadWB on March 21, 2017, 05:21:55 AM
Quote from: lost_loven;823650
Sweet. any can recommend? names, ebay links? knowing my luck I will get some cheapo one and it wont work lol! Is there a chip set better in some than others or does it not really matter these days?


Most of the cheap ones I see are pretty generic.  The one I have I remember now that I actually picked it up from my local vendor on a lark and was surprised it worked.  The unit identifies in Trident as manufactured by "JMTek, LLC.", vendor 0x0c76, product 0x1607.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Acill on March 21, 2017, 08:00:56 AM
This one worked for me on my Rapid Road. It was $1.16 shipped if you can believe that!!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-1-USB-to-3-5mm-mic-headphone-Jack-Stereo-Headset-3D-Sound-Card-Audio-Adapter-/201331730832?hash=item2ee04e6990:g:GswAAOSwu4BVt0AP
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on March 21, 2017, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: Acill;823666
This one worked for me on my Rapid Road. It was $1.16 shipped if you can believe that!!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-1-USB-to-3-5mm-mic-headphone-Jack-Stereo-Headset-3D-Sound-Card-Audio-Adapter-/201331730832?hash=item2ee04e6990:g:GswAAOSwu4BVt0AP


Sweet, I was looking at those .. I just ordered one for 1.55 CDN

anyone try one of these?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PC-System-Windows-USB-2-0-3D-Virtual-7-1-Channel-Audio-Sound-Card-Adapter-NEW-/192049471427?hash=item2cb70a5fc3:g:D4kAAOSwJ7RYS18Y

or

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mini-USB-2-0-3D-Virtual-480Mbps-External-7-1-Channel-Audio-Sound-Card-Adapter-ZE-/192122955325?hash=item2cbb6ba63d:g:hPQAAOSwTZ1XmcmV

Guess they would all work if there is a min standard to go by right?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: LoadWB on March 21, 2017, 12:27:20 PM
Quote from: Acill;823666
This one worked for me on my Rapid Road. It was $1.16 shipped if you can believe that!!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-1-USB-to-3-5mm-mic-headphone-Jack-Stereo-Headset-3D-Sound-Card-Audio-Adapter-/201331730832?hash=item2ee04e6990:g:GswAAOSwu4BVt0AP


The one I have looks identical to that (blue,) minus the disco laser lights.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: dovegrace on March 21, 2017, 04:58:24 PM
Quote from: lost_loven;823669
Sweet, I was looking at those .. I just ordered one for 1.55 CDN


Are you in Winnipeg?  Too bad I didn't see this earlier, I have one or two I could have offered...
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on March 21, 2017, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: dovegrace;823680
Are you in Winnipeg?  Too bad I didn't see this earlier, I have one or two I could have offered...


Yup, in Winnipeg. Right now tracking shows my rapid road on its way to Toronto woohoo. Whats your rig? What can be done with usb audio, just music play back? From what I read it still puts a pretty heavy load on 040 for mp3 playback.. Be neat anyhow to check out.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: dovegrace on March 21, 2017, 11:31:31 PM
Quote from: lost_loven;823691
Whats your rig? What can be done with usb audio, just music play back? From what I read it still puts a pretty heavy load on 040 for mp3 playback.. Be neat anyhow to check out.


Haven't really tried USB audio on my Amigas, to be honest, and likely won't as I sold my Subway and Deneb cards to other forum members last year.  The USB audio cards were bought for a project involving a Bearcat BC875XLT radio scanner and a Raspberry Pi that I never got around to doing (and probably won't).
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Acill on March 22, 2017, 03:59:50 AM
Honestly, you are not missing anything by not using one. They are quite bad and more of just a novelty.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on March 22, 2017, 10:44:01 AM
Quote from: Acill;823701
Honestly, you are not missing anything by not using one. They are quite bad and more of just a novelty.


Awh good to know lol.. I kinda of figured that. Just one of those amiga things where we can say been there done that ;)
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: LoadWB on March 22, 2017, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: lost_loven;823707
Awh good to know lol.. I kinda of figured that. Just one of those amiga things where we can say been there done that ;)


Meh, to each his own.  For the $1.50 it's not just a bragging right for me, it actually sounds quite nice.  The 060 uses AHI handily and I found the system seems less jerky when playing AMPlifier through the USB sound card versus the hi-res Paula driver.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 22, 2017, 05:56:28 PM
Quote from: Acill;823701
Honestly, you are not missing anything by not using one. They are quite bad and more of just a novelty.

Well Chief, sometimes it's nice to know what I am missing, even if it doesn't sound very much.

Personally I just think USB is a good idea gone horribly wrong, so obviously I'm prejuduced about the whole idea. I have to admit though, USB sound cards are one way to sample analogue data on a Raspberry PI, so clearly they are useful for doing some things.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on March 22, 2017, 09:39:33 PM
Well never the less I cant wait to get it and see how it works out on my rig. everything is in the hands of the post man now so its just a waiting game for my rapid road and the usb audio.. I ordered all 3 now just to check out .. why not.. its all nickels and dimes.
And right, to each there own.. who knows maybe it will work alright with the a3640 and I might have some fun! Can you sample with it? I remember back in the 90's I had audio master 4 sampler and would rip songs off cds to mess around. Would I be able to do something like that? Would be alright in my humble opinion lol
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Acill on March 23, 2017, 09:13:01 AM
Oh dont get me wrong! For the price, they are worth getting one for sure! If you have at least a 040 though or it will kill your system performance.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on April 19, 2017, 10:39:43 PM
Quote from: Acill;823666
This one worked for me on my Rapid Road. It was $1.16 shipped if you can believe that!!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-1-USB-to-3-5mm-mic-headphone-Jack-Stereo-Headset-3D-Sound-Card-Audio-Adapter-/201331730832?hash=item2ee04e6990:g:GswAAOSwu4BVt0AP


Ugh.. Got the usb card in like yours and not working :(  any suggestions?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Acill on April 20, 2017, 12:09:47 AM
Quote from: lost_loven;824819
Ugh.. Got the usb card in like yours and not working :(  any suggestions?


Its a crap shoot with these things. I bet they changed the chip in it or something. Hard to say.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on April 20, 2017, 01:46:10 AM
Well 2 more coming in the mail.. At least 1  will have to work.. I hope lol
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: LoadWB on April 20, 2017, 03:20:39 AM
Do you have AHI installed?
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on April 20, 2017, 11:44:18 AM
I under the impression that it was all installed with the Trident 4.5 software, I didn't have to install anything extra for my wireless mouse.. It just worked with no errors. There is a device list with usb audio being part of it. hmmmm need to investigate more after work today.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Iggy on April 20, 2017, 01:49:57 PM
I thought Poseidon wasn't up to handling USB sound cards.
Am I mistaken, or is the Amiga version somehow better than the MorphOS version?

Because under MorphOS, Apple Cube systems don't have sound because we can't support USB sound.

Same with the SAM460CR.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Whaka on April 20, 2017, 06:44:47 PM
Quote from: Iggy;824836
I thought Poseidon wasn't up to handling USB sound cards.
he can.
i have 2 c-media usb sound card wich worked fine. one is dead since...
but the other still work like a charm.

but for "big box" amiga, i think than considering the prisma megamix for playing music is not a bad idea at all...
ok, it's more expensive than an usb sound card, but it save a big lot of cpu cycle :D
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Acill on April 20, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: lost_loven;824831
I under the impression that it was all installed with the Trident 4.5 software, I didn't have to install anything extra for my wireless mouse.. It just worked with no errors. There is a device list with usb audio being part of it. hmmmm need to investigate more after work today.


You still have to install AHI and attach the mode like you would any sound card in an amiga. It doesnt just work out of the box like a mouse.
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on April 20, 2017, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Acill;824853
You still have to install AHI and attach the mode like you would any sound card in an amiga. It doesnt just work out of the box like a mouse.


Awh ok I didn't know that.. is it easily found in aminet? or have a link where i could get it lol I am not tring to be toooo lazy here. Thanks for the heads up! Will look after dinner :):roflmao:
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on April 21, 2017, 12:06:53 AM
What version of Workbench are ya running? 3.9 includes AHI. 3.5 might, as well, but I'm too lazy to google it. There's also an older version on Aminet. Good luck! :)
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on April 21, 2017, 12:49:24 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;824856
What version of Workbench are ya running? 3.9 includes AHI. 3.5 might, as well, but I'm too lazy to google it. There's also an older version on Aminet. Good luck! :)

Hahah lazy day.. I am running WB 3.1 classic advance install.
Googling it now..

edit  pssst :

http://aminet.net/package/driver/audio/ahiusr_4.18
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: lost_loven on April 22, 2017, 02:29:56 AM
yup that did it! Think I might make a vid once get it fine tuned :)
Title: Re: Poseidon compatible USB Sound Card
Post by: LoadWB on April 22, 2017, 07:36:03 AM
Good to see you were successful.  Yesterday I installed Poseidon with the RapidRoad on my 1200, put in the sound card, set AHI device 0, and boom!  I need to go post a picture of my 1200 tranny.