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Author Topic: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies  (Read 3716 times)

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Offline odin

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Re: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies
« on: January 16, 2011, 04:53:14 PM »
Star Wars is SF but Men in Black isn't? I could argue that Star Wars is nothing more than a Dam Busters in space/Western crossover. Here's a challenge for you, define the term science fiction =).

Offline odin

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Re: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2011, 12:53:59 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;607124
Star Wars is accepted as Sci Fi in popular culture even though technically it isn't. I consider it a Fantasy. But i think you were right in calling it a Space Western.  Actually i think the correct term for it is Space Opera. Star Trek was a Space Western too - "Band Wagon to the Stars"?

Define Sci Fi? Easy. Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.

P.S. SF actually means Speculative Future and is not Science Fiction. SF is the same as Sci Fi but minus the science.
Potato, potato. It's nigh impossible to define SF, SciFi, science fiction, Science Fiction, Scientifiction, speculative fiction, speculative future (that's a new one for me btw =), scientific romance, voyages extraordinaires etc etc, although it usually is easy to look at a specific title and say whether or not it is SF.  

With your definition works from the new wave of the sixties like Dune or The Left Hand of Darkness or even Hyperion of recent years could be argued not to be part (since the estrangement in these novels for the most part isn't really based on science) of the same genre as The War of the Worlds (although it could be said that WotW can't be SF since the genre SF didn't even exist in the 1800s) or The Forever War.
 
I'm quite partial to Darko Suvin's definition: 'SF is, then, a literary genre whose necessary and sufficient conditions are the presence and interaction of estrangement and cognition, and whose main formal device is an imaginative framework alternative to the author's empirical environment.' In my opinion this estranging device, or novum as Suvin also refers to it, doesn't necessarily have to be a technological or 'hard' scientific object or event. It can as well be sociological novum.

If you ask 5 different literary critics to define the genre you'll end up with 5 different answers. In the end Damon Knight probably phrased it best with the oft quoted definition 'science fiction means what we point to when we say it.'
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 01:10:26 AM by odin »
 

Offline odin

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Re: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 01:04:30 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;607167

SF in my opinion is where they imagine a certain type of technology/science and visualise it in a future setting where it is prevailent in society. An example of SF would be Steampunk. A society where everything is run by steam. This is my favourite genre in SF. But i also like Clockpunk. An example of Steampunk is Wild Wild West with Will Smith. Other examples of SF include Metropolis and maybe Astroboy. I don't understand how Star Wars is SF or Sci Fi but people just called it that.

Please elaborate on how SW isn't SF/Sci Fi, but WWW is =). In my opinion WWW is even less about technology or science than SW. The steampunk theme is just used as a gimmick, as much as the interstellar theme of SW.

On a side-note, what's your opinion on China MiƩville's steampunkish New Crobuzon novels? I absolutely love his stuff, even if it sometimes gets a bit longwinded.

'Good' SF (if there even exists such a thing as 'good' and 'bad' literature) in my opinion isn't about the future or distant worlds but explores the world the author lives in by means of imagining something 'strange' and extrapolating his/her own world using this 'strange' thing.

In that light SW and WWW both don't really fit this bill (although they can still be very good and entertaining movies!).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 01:19:56 AM by odin »
 

Offline odin

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Re: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 01:24:24 AM »
@runequester:
I recently read an omnibus edition which included The Forever War, Forever Free and Forever Peace. Although they all take place in the same universe (more or less) they're three very different novels. I think I prefer War too =).

Offline odin

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Re: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 01:47:14 AM »
@runequester:
Yep. Peace takes place some 15-20 years after the epilogue of War. Marygay and William are still living on Middle Finger but grow weary of their confinement on this world and rebel in a way against Man. Without trying to spill too much this novel has some Douglas Adams in it (not so much the humour but more some of the philosophical stuff of his books). It's a good read but not as interesting as The Forever War.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 02:16:17 AM by odin »
 

Offline odin

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Re: 3 things I miss from 80s and early 90s movies
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 01:53:50 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;607207
I honestly couldn't tell you as i'm not a book reader. I'm a university student and my course requires lots of reading so i tend to avoid it outside of my studies. Besides reading is the boring thing ever! *yawn*

Heathen! Fetch the pitchforks and torches! ;-).
Quote from: Kesa;607207

But i hope they make into a movie :)

Ah, I would love to see it on a big screen. One can hope.
Quote from: Kesa;607207

Although i am a fan of Lemony's Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events. I have so far only seen the movie but plan to read his books one day.

Hm, I'll check that movie out. Somehow passed me by.