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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Entertainment => Topic started by: runequester on January 16, 2011, 04:16:12 AM
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1: Movies that aren't afraid to be science fiction, and make that a proper part of the story, without a bunch of mumbo jumbo
2: Old fashioned action movies ala Commando and Rambo. Expendables was a nice throwback to that.
3: Movies that are genuinely funny. There's been funny movies lately, but most "comedies" just leave me cold. Where's stuff like Ghostbusters and Hot Shots?
So yeah. Thats a bit of me yearning for the past :)
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1: Movies that aren't afraid to be science fiction, and make that a proper part of the story, without a bunch of mumbo jumbo
2: Old fashioned action movies ala Commando and Rambo. Expendables was a nice throwback to that.
3: Movies that are genuinely funny. There's been funny movies lately, but most "comedies" just leave me cold. Where's stuff like Ghostbusters and Hot Shots?
So yeah. Thats a bit of me yearning for the past :)
I'm not sure what you meant in point 1 but i think i know. Sci Fi goes in cycles from conventional to Star Wars type Sci Fi. Old fashioned Sci fi was pushed aside by Star Wars and changed it forever so you get things like Men in Black passing for Sci Fi which it isn't. But i can think of a few examples of proper Sci Fi in the 2000's. Try i robot with Will Smith or maybe Astroboy.
I agree with point 2 completely.
As for point 3 what's wrong with Scary Movie? :roflmao:
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Star Wars is SF but Men in Black isn't? I could argue that Star Wars is nothing more than a Dam Busters in space/Western crossover. Here's a challenge for you, define the term science fiction =).
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Yeah, but then theres offerings like "James Bond in the Wild West and Aliens" :insane:
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Star Wars is SF but Men in Black isn't? I could argue that Star Wars is nothing more than a Dam Busters in space/Western crossover. Here's a challenge for you, define the term science fiction =).
Star Wars is accepted as Sci Fi in popular culture even though technically it isn't. I consider it a Fantasy. But i think you were right in calling it a Space Western. Actually i think the correct term for it is Space Opera. Star Trek was a Space Western too - "Band Wagon to the Stars"?
Define Sci Fi? Easy. Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
P.S. SF actually means Speculative Future and is not Science Fiction. SF is the same as Sci Fi but minus the science.
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I like scifi that doesn't try to have some big over-riding moral or anything. Avatar was good but I pretty much ignored the moral behind the story. I thought about it afterwards of course, but during the movie I just want a good plot, good acting, lots of action and good believable effects.
I don't think movies have to be "life changing" or even thought provoking to be good. Star Wars wasn't. It was just cool, with different worlds, and different creatures, and action and stuff.
A lot of movies today think that they need to have some big moral or else they are just driven by special effects.
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Star Wars is accepted as Sci Fi in popular culture even though technically it isn't. I consider it a Fantasy. But i think you were right in calling it a Space Western. Actually i think the correct term for it is Space Opera. Star Trek was a Space Western too - "Band Wagon to the Stars"?
Define Sci Fi? Easy. Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
P.S. SF actually means Speculative Future and is not Science Fiction. SF is the same as Sci Fi but minus the science.
Ah, like "Hackers" then! :lol:
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Star Wars is accepted as Sci Fi in popular culture even though technically it isn't. I consider it a Fantasy. But i think you were right in calling it a Space Western. Actually i think the correct term for it is Space Opera. Star Trek was a Space Western too - "Band Wagon to the Stars"?
Define Sci Fi? Easy. Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
P.S. SF actually means Speculative Future and is not Science Fiction. SF is the same as Sci Fi but minus the science.
By your definition, why isn't Star Wars and SF scifi? If we had interstellar spacecraft (technology) we would likely have the impact and intrigue displayed by the empire and republic, of different worlds interacting as they do in SW.
I would define Space Operas (my favorite are by Alistair Reynolds) Space Westerns (SW) and SF (Star Trek) as all genres of scifi.
SciFi is just fiction with lot's-o-science.
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Ah, like "Hackers" then! :lol:
I don't care what anyone says. Hackers is cool. I think it's funny when he is impressed when she tells him her laptop has a 33 kbps modem!
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By your definition, why isn't Star Wars and SF scifi? If we had interstellar spacecraft (technology) we would likely have the impact and intrigue displayed by the empire and republic, of different worlds interacting as they do in SW.
I would define Space Operas (my favorite are by Alistair Reynolds) Space Westerns (SW) and SF (Star Trek) as all genres of scifi.
SciFi is just fiction with lot's-o-science.
Well no. Because Star Wars isn't a story about technology or science. It's about good vs evil. Just because it's in space doesn't mean it's automatically Sci Fi. But that just enforces what i was trying to say before about old school and new school Sci Fi. You are obviously new school :)
In my opinion old school Sci Fi uses technology/science as the foundation of the story whereas new school the technology/science aspect is not a part of the story it is just put in there for no obvious reason except that it looks good.
SF in my opinion is where they imagine a certain type of technology/science and visualise it in a future setting where it is prevailent in society. An example of SF would be Steampunk. A society where everything is run by steam. This is my favourite genre in SF. But i also like Clockpunk. An example of Steampunk is Wild Wild West with Will Smith. Other examples of SF include Metropolis and maybe Astroboy. I don't understand how Star Wars is SF or Sci Fi but people just called it that.
But i do agree that it can be hard to identify genres because they overlap so much... :)
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@ KThunder
If you want to watch a great Space Western you should watch Firefly. Serenity was good too :)
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By that definition (and Im broadly inclined to agree), Gattaca f.x. is "scifi" while star wars is not.
Obviously there's room for interpretation, but some sort of science should play an impact. You could toss Stargate, Strange Days or Inception in there I imagine. (even if the science is weak, but its the implications of such that matter)
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Star Wars is accepted as Sci Fi in popular culture even though technically it isn't. I consider it a Fantasy. But i think you were right in calling it a Space Western. Actually i think the correct term for it is Space Opera. Star Trek was a Space Western too - "Band Wagon to the Stars"?
Define Sci Fi? Easy. Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
P.S. SF actually means Speculative Future and is not Science Fiction. SF is the same as Sci Fi but minus the science.
Potato, potato. It's nigh impossible to define SF, SciFi, science fiction, Science Fiction, Scientifiction, speculative fiction, speculative future (that's a new one for me btw =), scientific romance, voyages extraordinaires etc etc, although it usually is easy to look at a specific title and say whether or not it is SF.
With your definition works from the new wave of the sixties like Dune or The Left Hand of Darkness or even Hyperion of recent years could be argued not to be part (since the estrangement in these novels for the most part isn't really based on science) of the same genre as The War of the Worlds (although it could be said that WotW can't be SF since the genre SF didn't even exist in the 1800s) or The Forever War.
I'm quite partial to Darko Suvin's definition: 'SF is, then, a literary genre whose necessary and sufficient conditions are the presence and interaction of estrangement and cognition, and whose main formal device is an imaginative framework alternative to the author's empirical environment.' In my opinion this estranging device, or novum as Suvin also refers to it, doesn't necessarily have to be a technological or 'hard' scientific object or event. It can as well be sociological novum.
If you ask 5 different literary critics to define the genre you'll end up with 5 different answers. In the end Damon Knight probably phrased it best with the oft quoted definition 'science fiction means what we point to when we say it.'
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Slight tangent, but since you mention it.... Forever War is one of my favourite books ever.
Forever Peace was pretty damn good too, if a bit trippier
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SF in my opinion is where they imagine a certain type of technology/science and visualise it in a future setting where it is prevailent in society. An example of SF would be Steampunk. A society where everything is run by steam. This is my favourite genre in SF. But i also like Clockpunk. An example of Steampunk is Wild Wild West with Will Smith. Other examples of SF include Metropolis and maybe Astroboy. I don't understand how Star Wars is SF or Sci Fi but people just called it that.
Please elaborate on how SW isn't SF/Sci Fi, but WWW is =). In my opinion WWW is even less about technology or science than SW. The steampunk theme is just used as a gimmick, as much as the interstellar theme of SW.
On a side-note, what's your opinion on China Miéville's steampunkish New Crobuzon novels? I absolutely love his stuff, even if it sometimes gets a bit longwinded.
'Good' SF (if there even exists such a thing as 'good' and 'bad' literature) in my opinion isn't about the future or distant worlds but explores the world the author lives in by means of imagining something 'strange' and extrapolating his/her own world using this 'strange' thing.
In that light SW and WWW both don't really fit this bill (although they can still be very good and entertaining movies!).
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@runequester:
I recently read an omnibus edition which included The Forever War, Forever Free and Forever Peace. Although they all take place in the same universe (more or less) they're three very different novels. I think I prefer War too =).
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@runequester:
I recently read an omnibus edition which included The Forever War, Forever Free and Forever Peace. Although they all take place in the same universe (more or less) they're three very different novels. I think I prefer War too =).
How is Forever Free ? Isn't that one a direct sequel to Forever War?
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Please elaborate on how SW isn't SF/Sci Fi, but WWW is =). In my opinion WWW is even less about technology or science than SW. The steampunk theme is just used as a gimmick, as much as the interstellar theme of SW.
Maybe, but i think maybe in Wild Wild West there is heavy emphasis on Steampunk and the story is driven by it whereas in Star Wars it's not.
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On a side-note, what's your opinion on China Miéville's steampunkish New Crobuzon novels? I absolutely love his stuff, even if it sometimes gets a bit longwinded.
I honestly couldn't tell you as i'm not a book reader. I'm a university student and my course requires lots of reading so i tend to avoid it outside of my studies. Besides reading is the boring thing ever! *yawn*
But i hope they make into a movie :)
Although i am a fan of Lemony's Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events. I have so far only seen the movie but plan to read his books one day.
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Please elaborate on how SW isn't SF/Sci Fi, but WWW is =).
'Good' SF (if there even exists such a thing as 'good' and 'bad' literature) in my opinion isn't about the future or distant worlds but explores the world the author lives in by means of imagining something 'strange' and extrapolating his/her own world using this 'strange' thing.
Couldn't have put it better myself :)
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@runequester:
Yep. Peace takes place some 15-20 years after the epilogue of War. Marygay and William are still living on Middle Finger but grow weary of their confinement on this world and rebel in a way against Man. Without trying to spill too much this novel has some Douglas Adams in it (not so much the humour but more some of the philosophical stuff of his books). It's a good read but not as interesting as The Forever War.
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I honestly couldn't tell you as i'm not a book reader. I'm a university student and my course requires lots of reading so i tend to avoid it outside of my studies. Besides reading is the boring thing ever! *yawn*
Heathen! Fetch the pitchforks and torches! ;-).
But i hope they make into a movie :)
Ah, I would love to see it on a big screen. One can hope.
Although i am a fan of Lemony's Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events. I have so far only seen the movie but plan to read his books one day.
Hm, I'll check that movie out. Somehow passed me by.
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Firefly is a decent space western. If you want good but recent science fiction then check out Children of men.
I also miss 80's-style action movies. :(
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Heathen! Fetch the pitchforks and torches! ;-).
Says the man who took his screen name from the king of the Norse pagan gods. -.-
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Firefly is a decent space western. If you want good but recent science fiction then check out Children of men.
I also miss 80's-style action movies. :(
Somewhere along the way, things changed from "good action with some story to string it together" to "loads of story, with some action to string it together"
Less exposition, more facepunching.
I dont dislike story heavy movies, but I prefer it to be one or the other.
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A personal favourite of mine is Event Horizon from the 1990's. I like the way they combine space and supernatural genres in the same movie :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_%28film%29
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I can't remember the last time I actually wanted to watch a new release movie, pretty sure it was "Wog Boy" back in the late 90's. TBH, I have launched my own personal boycott of Hollywood, it is simply one giant crock of horse shit, hopefully it will disappear up it's own arsehole one day.
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Firefly, great stuff. The Core http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298814/ , good old fashion 50's type scifi disaster flick not afraid to dazzle you with lots of imaginary tech. Mixed reviews but I though it was a good popcorn movie.
Plaz
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A personal favourite of mine is Event Horizon from the 1990's. I like the way they combine space and supernatural genres in the same movie :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_%28film%29
You might also enjoy "Sunshine"...
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You might also enjoy "Sunshine"...
Interestingly, I didn't. I had hopes, but they were dashed by a number of things including the "teen" caliber of acting.
2012 was OK, but was losing me fast by the last 30 mins.
And the remake of "The Day the Earth Stood Still"... huge waste of time. I didn't even finish watching it.
Plaz
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A personal favourite of mine is Event Horizon from the 1990's. I like the way they combine space and supernatural genres in the same movie :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_%28film%29
Yes, and Orbital did the soundtrack for the film.
Which makes it even better!!