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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 21836 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #165 on: February 21, 2020, 09:33:27 PM »
There's nothing like that in the NDA. Why jump to these false conclusions about a document you have not even seen?

Because it is implicit - it is not Hyperion not allowing anything, it is AROS that cannot risk having AmigaOS developers contributing, because who know what Hyperion might do then - exactly because the documents that you refer to are not public.
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---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
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A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
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Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2020, 09:47:37 PM »
@kolla:

I don't see what that has to do with an NDA. If someone was pasting AmigaOS code into AROS, that would be a copyright violation, regardless of whether they had signed any NDA.

And it's quite normal that NDAs and similar contracts are not public; that's standard practice and I have never seen a company website where such documents were available. For example, A-Eon NDAs have never been published on A-Eon's site. I couldn't find any at Cloanto's either (although maybe they don't need to use them as they don't really do software development, they just sell a free emulator written by someone else).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 10:16:52 PM by Minuous »
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #167 on: February 21, 2020, 10:54:37 PM »
Yeah, we should all be happy that Hyperion never was involved in development of WinUAE.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Rob

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #168 on: February 22, 2020, 12:17:29 AM »
There's nothing like that in the NDA. Why jump to these false conclusions about a document you have not even seen?

Because it is implicit - it is not Hyperion not allowing anything, it is AROS that cannot risk having AmigaOS developers contributing, because who know what Hyperion might do then - exactly because the documents that you refer to are not public.

I must say that I've lost count of the number of times that a current or former Amiga OS delevoper has bemoaned the fact that they cannot contribute to AROS because of the NDA they signed with Hyperion.  Let's also not forget the huge number of developers who opened up to the public that they wanted to work on Amiga OS but had to make the hard choice not to because the NDA presented to them was just too restrictive for their liking.
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #169 on: February 22, 2020, 05:28:48 AM »
I must say that I've lost count of the number of times that a current or former Amiga OS delevoper has bemoaned the fact that they cannot contribute to AROS because of the NDA they signed with Hyperion.  Let's also not forget the huge number of developers who opened up to the public that they wanted to work on Amiga OS but had to make the hard choice not to because the NDA presented to them was just too restrictive for their liking.

Please let us know the "huge number" of developers wishing to contribute to AROS that made the hard choice.

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #170 on: February 22, 2020, 07:11:28 AM »
@Gulliver
The “huge number” was about people who don’t wish to work for or be associated with Hyperion, people who who refuse to sign any NDA with them. The number of people who have said they cannot contribute to AROS due to NDA is of course not a big number, as not that many have been willing to sign up with Hyperion in the first place. But some of these few have stated numerous of times, that contributing to AROS would be problematic for AROS, due to the NDAs they have signed, and the risk of exposing AROS to legal actions from Hyperion. Who stated this? Most prominent, Olsen.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline DrProcton

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2020, 08:28:26 AM »
Personally I don't think NDA is the problem right now.
The problem is Hyperion. Because it's in constant near-bankrupcy status (money dilapidated in legal battles) , and in the verge of losing even the licensing, as Cloanto will obviously win the dispute even against the best lawyers of planet earth.

From what we are told here, Thomas will not contribute to OS 3.x if Cloanto wins the legal dispute and/or open the sources. Working for free on a commercial product is OK if the money go to Hyperion, but not if the money go the the legit proprietor? I don't understand.

Having a bug-fixed enhanced and "in development" Amiga OS 3 is a need for the Amiga community, and doesn't matter if it comes from Hyperion, Cloanto or from an open source project to me.

I really like 3.1.4 and I'm awaiting for 3.2. I will buy it as I did for 3.1.4 even if I would had preferred to give my money to Thomas instead of Hyperion. I hope Thomas will rethink his commitments and continue OS3.2 development even after the legal issues are resolved in favor of Cloanto.

A technical question: If OS 3.2 will see the light - an OS3.1.4 installation could be updated without losing any of 3.2 new features or the best solution would be to make a fresh install?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 08:49:38 AM by DrProcton »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #172 on: February 22, 2020, 10:08:01 AM »
From what we are told here, Thomas will not contribute to OS 3.x if Cloanto wins the legal dispute and/or open the sources. Working for free on a commercial product is OK if the money go to Hyperion, but not if the money go the the legit proprietor? I don't understand.
The question is not Cloanto or Hyperion, I couldn't care less. The question is the development model. I'm not willing to tame trolls to get an ordered development done - this won't work.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #173 on: February 22, 2020, 10:27:27 AM »
that is a silly sentence...

even 2-3 skilled developers would make a huge difference
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #174 on: February 22, 2020, 10:32:59 AM »
I understand what Thomas says but I do not share his view

He wants to control the development and decide not have discussions with others who might then forke 3.1 and make something not ciompatible. I do not see this happen but of course there could be discussions between developers. But finally the lead devs with most experience in the software decide. I see that in Aros happening and no forking and no problems. In case of 3.1 it would be the same devs deciding that decide now working on a closed source owned by Hyperion.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #175 on: February 22, 2020, 10:34:18 AM »
that they cannot contribute to Aros because of NDA signed and Hyperion was said from several developers in the recent years so they cannot be all wrong
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #176 on: February 22, 2020, 10:36:57 AM »
He wants to control the development and decide not have discussions with others who might then forke 3.1 and make something not ciompatible.
Is there  actually a reason that you always get this wrong? I *did not* say that at all. I said that I want a moderation and a board to make decisions, and not the typical "he who screams loudest wins".
 

Offline DrProcton

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #177 on: February 22, 2020, 10:57:47 AM »
that they cannot contribute to Aros because of NDA signed and Hyperion was said from several developers in the recent years so they cannot be all wrong
I don't know NDA contents, and maybe it's true that Hyperion NDA oblige his developers to not contribute to Aros, but from what I understand this doesn't seem to be a problem for Thomas, who simply is not interested in Aros. And that's perfectly OK. This is a hobby development for him and I think he should be free to decide to support an OS and not support another one. Don't think NDA makes much difference in this context. I also believe that if Battilana decides to Open source Amiga OS 3 there will surely be a strict coordination/moderation. Don't forget that he remains the owner of trademarks and legacy products, so is "in his interest" to keep OS developing clean and avoid silly forks and so on..
It would be stupid for Cloanto doing otherwise
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:05:58 AM by DrProcton »
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #178 on: February 22, 2020, 10:59:23 AM »
I am on Aros development forum (Slack) and see how it works. And there this what you expect is not happenig
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #179 on: February 22, 2020, 11:10:11 AM »
I cannot speak for Thomas but I assume too he would not be interested to contribute directly to Aros even without any legal issues. But f.e. people could look in his sources and integrate it in Aros (if propriate). At the moment f.e. the Aros devs work on extending datatypes including saving in lots of different formats. Looking in sources would make life easier.

Or take another example... if MUI would be open source (I know it is MorphOS not Hyperion) everyone would have compatible implementations and not everyone has to do the same again. A huge waste of resources. And it ends in not compatible forks finally. Working together on a common open source base has lots of adavantages for everyone. I know that is a pipe dream not happening...

So I really do not understand why many devs in such a small community prefer the closed source model (not just Thomas and Hyperion, also the MorphOS team).

Regarding Cloanto we will see. As I understand it you cannot simply open source 3.1 because of commercial parts included. For those you would have to get the OK, additionally you must analyse the sources to see what is copyright and what is not. And you must make it compatible to GCC (what is today normally used). That sounds like a lot of work (and you need skilled devs to do the migration to GCC). So we will see what will happen "if" Cloanto would win.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:18:33 AM by OlafS3 »