Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Hollywood MAL AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 21870 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2020, 03:40:26 PM »
So if opensource Linux makes sense because it's on x86/64 why doesn't AROS?  Where are those contributions?
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #151 on: February 21, 2020, 04:09:16 PM »
I already wrote that it is dangerous for software on a small market to be dependent on the decisions or fate of one person.
I do not disagree with that at all. This is precisely why I suggested a model where it is not driven by a single person, but a board or a consortium. But not in general public, but in an ordered, moderated way.

If Cloanto wins and they cannot come to a agreement with Hyperion (Ben H.) 3.1.4 is dead and all your work vanishes.
3.1.4 won't go away anymore. In worst case, it may not be available as a product, but people have it and use it.

I cannot understand your aversion against open source.
Because experience shows that a developer driven model does not create good products. It creates source code that is good for the developers, but not for the users. I believe we had this already. Do you want AmigaOs to be toyed around with, or do you want it to stay a usable product.

it all depends how the legal argument is decided. Nobody here can influence that and nobody will ask you either.
Nobody will ask me, but I can make my decisions on whether or not I will contribute to such an enterprise.

If Cloanto really open source 3.1 (what they repeated a couple of times in recent years) you have to think if you want to continue.
In case this wasn't clear from the beginning, I am not.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #152 on: February 21, 2020, 04:27:54 PM »
they cannot contribute because they signed NDAs with Hyperion not allowing them to contribute to anything else
 

Offline bison

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #153 on: February 21, 2020, 04:55:26 PM »
You seem pretty intent on ignoring the fact that Linux didn't start out that way.
You seem pretty intent on ignoring the fact that AmigaOs runs on obsolete hardware, and has an obsolete design as "operating system". Linux had a future because it had a sane design, and it run on hardware that offered a future. AmigaOs has neither. It is pretty pointless to compare the two.
You're making a lot of inferences.

I didn't say AmigaOS doesn't run on obsolete hardware, or that it doesn't have an obsolete design.  And I'm not comparing Linux to AmigaOS per se, I'm comparing the Linux *license* to the AmigaOS license; Linux is open source, and AmigaOS is not.

And I didn't say that AmigaOS has the potential to be developed into a system as sophisticated as Linux.  This is a straw man that you have constructed in an attempt to dismiss my position that it would be beneficial to the community to open source AmigaOS.

AmigaOS will likely never amount to anything significant, but if the code were open source, at least there would be 20 people working on it instead of two.

Edit: Tried to tone it down a bit. :)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 05:03:50 PM by bison »
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #154 on: February 21, 2020, 05:06:10 PM »
AmigaOS will likely never amount to anything significant, but if the code were open source, at least there would be 20 people working on it instead of two.
Look, we had this discussion on "user driven" and "developer driven" already. Which part wasn't clear?

20 developers help nothing if they don't work in a direction that helps the user. We have precisely that in Linux - or can you give me a reason for "systemd", replacing a completely workable, simple, easy to configure solution, by a feature monster that is hard to tame?
 

Offline bison

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #155 on: February 21, 2020, 05:14:50 PM »
AmigaOS will likely never amount to anything significant, but if the code were open source, at least there would be 20 people working on it instead of two.
Look, we had this discussion on "user driven" and "developer driven" already. Which part wasn't clear?
It's not a matter of clarity, but of agreement -- I don't find your arguments very convincing.
 
Quote
20 developers help nothing if they don't work in a direction that helps the user. We have precisely that in Linux - or can you give me a reason for "systemd", replacing a completely workable, simple, easy to configure solution, by a feature monster that is hard to tame?
Well, now we finally agree on something. :)  systemd is an abomination.  But I don't think releasing AmigaOS under an open source license is going to cause it to run straight to systemd, or anything like it.
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #156 on: February 21, 2020, 05:18:10 PM »
It's not a matter of clarity, but of agreement -- I don't find your arguments very convincing.
Then let's look at where Linux is successful - in the server market. Where do we have professionals (in the sense of "being paid for") contributing to Linux? ITo the server market.

Where is Linux not successful - at the desktop. Where is it driven by hobbyists? Well...

 

Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #157 on: February 21, 2020, 05:50:35 PM »
amiga system as a "successful product on desktop".. i think someone mentioned already, that it looks like the decisive part of audience is either collecting it or buying it "to support the platform".

you dont need any improvements to a quarter of century old os, to flawlessly run quarter of century old software. the few flaws are easily overcome to fire up this or other game, especially in winuae.

so this whole effort is actually about "upgrading the os" even if denied, for just a small group of people who really are using it for for productivity. are there any left? of is it an effort for very those who like to "to toy with the os" and its source code, while claiming it would be wrong, if others had this opportunity too.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #158 on: February 21, 2020, 06:11:19 PM »
you dont need any improvements to a quarter of century old os, to flawlessly run quarter of century old software. the few flaws are easily overcome to fire up this or other game, especially in winuae.
Then why open source it if nothing needs to be done, in your opinion? If you ask me, large media support in 3.1.4 was well worth it, but maybe that's just me.

so this whole effort is actually about "upgrading the os" even if denied, for just a small group of people who really are using it for for productivity. are there any left?
Actually, it is pretty much for every user.  The point is not so much "upgrading" on my side, it is more "fixing the most obvious problems and anoyances".
 

Offline cgutjahr

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #159 on: February 21, 2020, 06:15:27 PM »
This discussion is pointless. Somebody working for Hyperion critisizing the lack of a viable business model for an AmigaOS open source project? An AmigaOS developer pointing out that Linux is "not successful" on the desktop? An AmigaOS 3 developer worried about "loosing consistent look and feel" when we go open source? This is a parody of a discussion, at best.

Thomas is simply coughing up whatever comes to his mind first and sounds scary enough - just to completely drop the issue once he gets to hear some counter-arguments. Apparently, open source would be terrible, because "so many different desktops would arise" - until you point out that we never suffered from a lack of desktops. Then it turns out desktops do not actually  bother him - only Kickstart forks do. But obviously, none of the existing Kickstart forks count as counter examples, because... reasons. And did you know THERE ARE NO PROFESSIONALS WORKING ON DESKTOP LINUX?

I think there are two things we can take away from this 'discussion':

1. Thomas will walk away if AmigaOS becomes free software. So there.
2. Stop trolling, you guys.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 06:16:09 PM by cgutjahr »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #160 on: February 21, 2020, 06:27:31 PM »
This discussion is pointless. Somebody working for Hyperion critisizing the lack of a viable business model for an AmigaOS open source project?
Hyperion has a model, but is unable to run a business. That's not quite the same.

An AmigaOS developer pointing out that Linux is "not successful" on the desktop?
It is completely irrelevant as desktop Os - face it.

An AmigaOS 3 developer worried about "loosing consistent look and feel" when we go open source? This is a parody of a discussion, at best.
Hardly. We would get multple AmigaOs'es that are partially, but not totally compatible - causing frustration at the user side.

Thomas is simply coughing up whatever comes to his mind first and sounds scary enough
No, just what I observe at other projects.

just to completely drop the issue once he gets to hear some counter-arguments.
Drop which issue? There wasn't a convincing issue for open source, just "but I want it".

Apparently, open source would be terrible, because "so many different desktops would arise"
I never said this. The desktop example is what happend on the Linux end - fragmentation.

- until you point out that we never suffered from a lack of desktops. Then it turns out desktops do not actually  bother him - only Kickstart forks do.
In case you did not get it - "Desktops on Linux" show the actual issue what is wrong with the development model. If that wasn't clear to begin with.

But obviously, none of the existing Kickstart forks count as counter examples, because... reasons.
If you would *mind* reading what I wrote? Which forks? Kick 3.0 is not a fork, and AROS is another market.

And did you know THERE ARE NO PROFESSIONALS WORKING ON DESKTOP LINUX?
Apparently, no. Who sells desktop services for Linux? To whom? Who bothers?

1. Thomas will walk away if AmigaOS becomes free software. So there.
2. Stop trolling, you guys.
Then why you do? You did not even counter-arguments - you rather sound like Monty Pyhton's argument-clinic. To be taken serious, you need to provide arguments - this post does not.

Thanks, Mr. Quality-Journalist. Again.
 

Offline cgutjahr

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2020, 06:37:16 PM »
Hyperion has a model, but is unable to run a business. That's not quite the same.
You are financing Hyperion's lawsuit, without recieving any kind of compensation for yourself. The a1k.org crowd even had to collect money and hardware donations to buy you an A1200 you needed for development - because Hyperion wouldn't even pay for that, apparently. And that was *after* 3.1.4 had been on sale for months. Yet you complain that open source is not an option for lack of a viable business model.

Enough said.

And kudos for the personal attacks, really mature behaviour.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 06:42:14 PM by cgutjahr »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #162 on: February 21, 2020, 07:02:12 PM »
The a1k.org crowd even had to collect money and hardware donations to buy you an A1200 you needed for development - because Hyperion wouldn't even pay for that, apparently.

See, this is why I call you a "quality journalist". You know nothing, you guess, and then make up "News". Thanks for that. No, the reason is that I *did not want anything* from Hyperion and refused their offer. I'm not in business with them, and I do not work *for* them.

See, this is what I like about this "community". Whatever you do, you do it wrong. If I would have taken something from them, you would have claimed that they bribed me. Now that I did not intentionally, it's their faulty model, so I'm wrong again.
 
If I don't develop anything, it's my fault of blocking. If I do, it's wrong because it is "for" the wrong crowd.

Now, consider that we have this type of discussion every time for every feature that may or may not make it into a future development. It is exactly that why I believe that open source does not work in this "community".

I cannot possibly do anything right, so I don't even want to have this type of discussion in the development either.
 

Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #163 on: February 21, 2020, 09:01:45 PM »
they cannot contribute because they signed NDAs with Hyperion not allowing them to contribute to anything else

There's nothing like that in the NDA. Why jump to these false conclusions about a document you have not even seen?
 

Offline Pyromania

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2020, 09:04:19 PM »
Thanx again for all the hard work in AmigaOS, Thomas.