OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?

[lsmart]

I mean... just test/release for 1 to 2 mainboards and perhaps 1-2 cpu's....

The mainboards would be outdated and unavailable before the OS is even released. Seriously, if you are into this kind of stuff - look at AROS. It won´t get any better than this if you are on x86. We don´t need a second AROS, we already have one. The only way you could improve an x86 Amiga-like experience you have to nail the API on top of Linux which has no driver problems. But according to some MorphOS fans on this site, Anubis isn´t going well at the moment.

[the_leander]

The mainboards would be outdated and unavailable before the OS is even released. Seriously, if you are into this kind of stuff - look at AROS. It won´t get any better than this if you are on x86.

This wouldn't be a problem if you picked a niche such as the mini-itx market. The hardware there is fairly stable and quite limited. Also there is OSS code that one could leverage.

[WolfToTheMoon]

I don't see the average x86 user wanting to pay for AmigaOS unless it's much superior to others.  What will AmigaOS get people on x86 that they cannot get for free with other OS?  So it's really "just" the current Amiga users that will find the easier route (x86) to using OS4?  Is that the main point here?

Well, the same could be said about MorphOS... why would you run it next to Mac OS which is a superior OS in every way.

Listening to Hyperion guys at Amiwest today I think they're firmly set to remain a hobbyist market with the AmigaOS and AmigaONE brands. They do not even want to market outside of the community(by their own words, if I haven't got something wrong, the stream was a little laggy at first). So, there's really no point in asking about average x86 users... better ask yourself why would a average AmigaOS user want with a x86 hardware? The answers are... it's cheap, fast and it's plentiful.
How bout a x86 AmigaONE X1000 for 1000$ instead of 3000$+ offering the same speed and functionality...

But, I think it's too late for that. AROS is too strong today and I think Hyperion would find it hard to justify paying for x86 OS4 next to AROS today. Had it been done 2-3 years ago it would have been possible.

[Heiroglyph]

The mainboards would be outdated and unavailable before the OS is even released.

As opposed to single-source custom PPC boards that are both outdated and unavailable upon release?

[the_leander]

But, I think it's too late for that. AROS is too strong today

This isn't the first time I've read this, recently in fact I've seen it repeated. I don't know if it is true.

What I will say is that I never honestly expected to see the day when AROS would be pointed at as being complete enough that it warranted the attention it's getting.

I'm glad I was wrong. Well played folks.

[WolfToTheMoon]

This isn't the first time I've read this, recently in fact I've seen it repeated. I don't know if it is true.

Well, compared to MorphOS or AOS4 it is still probably "crude" in some areas, but then again, in some it is ahead. But with a new GUI(planned) and some serious beta testing to iron out some bugs, I think few would opt to pay for a very similar OS just for the sake of The Name.

[rebraist]

AROS is too strong today and I think Hyperion would find it hard to justify paying for x86 OS4 next to AROS today. Had it been done 2-3 years ago it would have been possible.

I have no ppc machines so i can only argue: perhaps aos4 is more stable than aros is?
I love aros but often i have to reboot it because it crashes (i7-p7p55-9800gtx2+ machine).
If aos is more stable than aros is i'd buy it today.

[the_leander]

Well, compared to MorphOS or AOS4 it is still probably "crude" in some areas, but then again, in some it is ahead. But with a new GUI(planned) and some serious beta testing to iron out some bugs, I think few would opt to pay for a very similar OS just for the sake of The Name.

Even to get to this stage... Heh it blows me away. Good luck with the testing

[ad-rs1600i]

I think it would be a shame if the Amiga moved over to X86, because like others have said Amiga would be just another OS rather than a unique h/w & s/w platform in its own right. I also like, and feel the need for a strong connection with the original Amiga kit from the 80/90s

PPc likely has enough legs to do most of what is required in the modern world - especially optimised for one platform. I wonder if there is any way of making the price more competitive? I guess it all depends on how you view Amiga computing in the modern world, e.g. hobby computing or a standard desktop work horse. As a work horse compared with the faceless stuff down PC World it is horrendously expensive, but as a unique, vibrant and interesting hobby it is excellent value for money with a great community behind it. I would say stop trying to compete with the mainstream and accept and enjoy 'Amiga' for its vibrancy, and uniqueness

I think a modern PPc card for the classic Amiga's would go along way towards getting more people involved and interested in OS4 - the market for classic Amiga seems very vibrant and well backed reviewing the price of second hand PPc cards etc. Also there are lots of 30+ year old kids(!) like me who are now in a position to buy that go faster turbo card we could never afford back in the day! But the connection -for me at least - would have to be there with the classic machines.

Amiga will win through as a unique interesting product steeped in History - as a standalone OS on X86 it will struggle because it would have little genuine connection with the past and only a very small developer base compared with Linux and Windows, in my humble opinion.

Stay original and niche!!

[persia]

@ad-rs1600i

But I think we have to realise it's 2011 (almost).  You're never going to be able to out do NVidia as a graphics card. or produce modern versions of any of the custom chips.  Hyperion realise this and support modernish graphics cards.  X1000 runs an Apple CPU, is this somehow more related to Amiga's past than an x86 CPU?

At the end of the day when you modernise legacy, then legacy becomes whatever you want it to be.

[ad-rs1600i]

@ persia

I am a bit of a old romantic so anything I say will certainly be from that vain I suppose! To my mind there was an argument for PowerPC as the logical successor to 64k as the Mac had very similar lineage to the Amiga and went that way - I always looked at the Mac as  what might have happened next with the Amiga without Commodore's demise

I guess my viewpoint is also definitely in the retro camp - I would love to see a new Amiga game running on a modern PPc board even if it wasn't anywhere near as good as something on a modern PC. Incidentally for games I don't even use a PC anymore, I have my PS3 which I also love and appreciate more than any PC I have ever owned because like the Amiga, you always feel the developers are pushing every last crumb of performance out of the hardware. In the PC world, if you cannot run the game/app it generally a 'tough luck mate, upgrade your hardware' type scenario.


Adrian

PS - I really loved reading this post with all the serious techy/developer dialog - I thought I was technical but no where near to the level of you guys!! It is also really great to see everyone so passionate about their various points of argument either which way - it shows 'Amiga' as an entity has a future no matter what happens to my mind

[Heiroglyph]

If you are more pro-PPC, do you own a PPC Amiga-like system?

I think it would be interesting to know who is buying them and who is only pro-PPC in theory.

[kolla]

@ persia

I am a bit of a old romantic so anything I say will certainly be from that vain I suppose! To my mind there was an argument for PowerPC as the logical successor to 64k as the Mac had very similar lineage to the Amiga and went that way - I always looked at the Mac as  what might have happened next with the Amiga without Commodore's demise

You can pretty much thank Apple for the death of PowerPC desktop machine, and it has nothing to do with Apple switching to Intel CPUs a few years ago, but everything to do with Apple killing off the CHRP in the mid-late '90ies when they refused to license MacOS to "clones", before any other desktop OS had managed to establish themselves on the PowerPC. And you can ask IBM and Freescale (Motorola back then) what they thought of it at the time.

Oh, and it's 68k, not 64k

[Amiga_Nut]

You have to remember OS4 going to x86 from PPC will be nothing like the experience for Apple Mac users.

1. Apple design their own computers, which have their own style. Hyperion make an OS and that's it. OS4 would be just a box on the shelf you install on some fugly PC.

2. Apple invested millions and still it wasn't a smooth as silk transition despite have totally locked hardware and bespoke BIOS. Hyperion can provide neither of these.

So unless someone buys the rights to Amiga and reverse engineers a version of AmigaOS to x86 (OS5? OS3.9? but these are just names not what features it could/couldn't have) then you will have a very slow painful process before you have a bug free useful OS to buy AND it will run on some crappy looking machine.

So what we actually need at the very least is....

i.   A stable motherboard as a platform.
ii.  A uniquely styled case that is "Amiga" to put it in.
iii. An OS converted to x86 and bug-free to run on the above.

Maybe now some people will realise just what it is you are asking. We have many ass-wipes like BS Altman and his Commodore USA crap but can you name one person even in the position to negate a deal to give you the complete package as listed above?

Putting OS4 for x86 on a shelf will do squat, build an Amiga styled computer and sell it cheap enough and we are ready to rock and roll and a few sales will happen off the shelf I reckon.

YMMV

[amiga92570]

Someone could just write an emulated ppc like SheepShaver. That would be the best bet and on newer x86 hardware would be cheaper than Amiga x1000.

[kolla]

You forgot a few...

3. Darwin, the core of OSX, had already been running on x86 many years already
4. NextStep, the OS from which the "upper layers" of OSX was developed, was also running on x86 for many years already.

Really, the switch to Intel from PowerPC for Apple was really a simple one, the biggest obstacle was to have all the application developers do the switch as well, some of them were just finnished moving their apps from OS9, many still hanging onto toolkits that existed in OSX only for providing easier porting from OS9. And then Apple switched again, leaving 32bit behind... some of the application developing companies are rather exhausted at this point