"Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"

[cgutjahr]

Open Source can be a commercial success, but that requires a business model. I do not quite see that - if you get can the thing for free for download, well, as far as I know the Amiga users, there would be no point buying anything. So why support an open source distribution company?

I'm just guessing here, but I'd say Cloanto's business model is not selling operating systems, but selling user-friendly, all-in-one, easy to install nostalgia trips (i.e. Amiga/Commodore Forever). Cloanto's business does not depend on OS sales. He's been selling a bundle containing all Amiga ROMs for something like 70 cent on Google's playstore for ages, I doubt he's getting rich from that.

Why buy AmigaOS if it's open source? Because...

• ...only the commcerical version would have official branding
• ...collectors buy (a) anything in a Box and (b) anything with an 'official' Amiga mark
• ...ROMs and disks can't be downloaded from the net
• ...people want to support the effort

Should be enough to support the effort of making a physical edition.

Btw.: I admire your guts talking about 'business models' while working for/with Hyperion.

[cgutjahr]

This discussion is pointless. Somebody working for Hyperion critisizing the lack of a viable business model for an AmigaOS open source project? An AmigaOS developer pointing out that Linux is "not successful" on the desktop? An AmigaOS 3 developer worried about "loosing consistent look and feel" when we go open source? This is a parody of a discussion, at best.

Thomas is simply coughing up whatever comes to his mind first and sounds scary enough - just to completely drop the issue once he gets to hear some counter-arguments. Apparently, open source would be terrible, because "so many different desktops would arise" - until you point out that we never suffered from a lack of desktops. Then it turns out desktops do not actually  bother him - only Kickstart forks do. But obviously, none of the existing Kickstart forks count as counter examples, because... reasons. And did you know THERE ARE NO PROFESSIONALS WORKING ON DESKTOP LINUX?

I think there are two things we can take away from this 'discussion':

1. Thomas will walk away if AmigaOS becomes free software. So there.
2. Stop trolling, you guys.

[cgutjahr]

Hyperion has a model, but is unable to run a business. That's not quite the same.

You are financing Hyperion's lawsuit, without recieving any kind of compensation for yourself. The a1k.org crowd even had to collect money and hardware donations to buy you an A1200 you needed for development - because Hyperion wouldn't even pay for that, apparently. And that was *after* 3.1.4 had been on sale for months. Yet you complain that open source is not an option for lack of a viable business model.

Enough said.

And kudos for the personal attacks, really mature behaviour.

[cgutjahr]

Let me recapitulate:

Please don't.

Then Amiga Inc. claims that AmigaOs 4 is their property, after Amiga DE fails.

They simply executed the buy back clause that Ben Hermans himself had written into the 2001 contract. For 25,000 USD, they'd get the rights to OS4. End of story.

But Ben claimed he wasn't paid in full, so he didn't hand over OS4 - that's the reason he got sued. During the case, it turned out that Amiga had paid the 25000 USD, plus some older debts for AmigaDE related work Hyperion had done - but somehow messed up and transferred 500 USD (IIRC) less than the total they owed Hyperion.

Ben Hermans destroyed both OS4 and the company he was supposed to run - for the chance to steal the Amiga IP. And in the end, he got to keep the 25000 USD and OS4 - after a 2.5 year long court battle, because Amiga had missed a 500 USD payment.

Hyperion goes to court

Hyperion didn't go to court, they waited until the were sued.

Amiga Inc. goes bankrupt, transfering ownership to Amigo (or what's is name), renaming this enterprise again to Amiga.

That happened way before the court case, and it happened with Hyperion's consent.

Then, Amiga Inc. sells again its "property" to Cloanto. So I really wonder who is the thief in all this epic novel. If you want to point fingers, Amiga Inc. seems to be a much more suitable target for that, having two victims.

Said the guy who's acknowledging Hyperion are pirating 1.3 yet he's still financing their current lawsuit. Not sure I'd trust your judgement on issues like that. And kudos for bringing up Cloanto again.

[cgutjahr]

My point was that Cloanto have not put their money into development of anything, not even Amiga Forever.

The link you provided does not actually show that. In fact, it implies the opposite: If Battilana is paying somebody for cataloging games and applications (which is what Trevor's money was used for), it's safe to assume he's also paying people for programming work.

But even if your claim was true - "not paying your developers and using the money for lawsuits" is the actual business model you and Thomas are actively supporting, so I don't see why you would get all worked up over it.

[cgutjahr]

I don't live under a rock, in fact, I am in a position that can see things happening that others try to guess. And I am not the only one.
So you can keep guessing all you want, but that does not make it a fact.

Jesus Christ, are you new to this scene? This is 2020 and you're saying in public, with a straight face, "Ben tells me things, so there!".

Trevor is now publicly accusing Ben Hermans of stealing half a million bucks from him, and forging bank documents to hide it. And Gulliver's walking around telling people "A-EON and Hyperion have been cooperating for some time". *facepalm*

I was wondering who Ben would pick as the next Solie. Looks like he has so many applications, he's probably going to run a competition. Hey, maybe you should buy some Hyperion shares? That's going to improve your chances a lot, you know.

[cgutjahr]

It's a waste on either side, and it is actually triggered by Cloanto this time that my work is wasted. Thank you so much for that.

You knew before you got into this that Hyperion was pirating 1.3 (your words, not mine) - which makes actually cooperating with them on a software project a mind-boggling move to begin with. One that you explained with "I don't have another choice, I want to work on AmigaOS".

And there's dozen of people available who used to work on a Hyperion OS project who could have told you what you were getting into. You just weren't interested in listening. Instead, you reappeared after a 15 year hiatus, showed up here and started to explain to us how all of this works: "This UAE driver is illegal, this P96 SDK project is illegal, the Vampire driver is illegal, Cloanto doesn't have a license to modify 3.x, Cloanto is pirating P96"...

The fact that you showed up here right after negotiations between Ben and Mike failed, to start badmouthing open source again strongly implies you're still relying on 'info' supplied by Ben or by one of his cronies.

If it all blows up, who's fault will that be?

Yep, Cloanto. That makes sense.

[cgutjahr]

You know, who is killing the system? Cloanto? Hyperion? Neither -guys like you, or Kolla, demotivating anyone who dares to help

So, when you say things like....

"UAE P96 driver is illegal"
"Vampire P96 driver is illegal"
"Cloanto is pirating P96"
"This project to create a free P96 SDK is illegal"
"Cloanto has no license to modify P96"
"The Aminet admin is a lying troll"

... that's just valid criticism. But when I say "you're funding lawyers", I'm killing the system.

Care to explain? Or are you just going to make another dramatic exit?