NetSurf OS3.x Issues

[wawrzon]

MUI would be more adorable than reaction, no doubt for that. MUI would be also more future proof solution, as it is availlable for free and it is availlable for all platforms and also a OS3.0/1. If there were a boynty for Netsurf it should have MUI gui.  I would hapily participate.

Problem is if we collect some thousands money, would it help to find coder or or not?

you could have participated in discussion on aros-exec about odyssey port to 68k in order to establish a bounty. i think some word has been spred. currently there is no agreement what to do and also mui, even if available for free in one or another form is not open, so its absolutely not as future proof as you imply. but there is zune.

once im ready with what im doing now ill discuss with deadwood the possibility to include odyssey in aros contribs and e it compile for 68k and maybe work on it some day. but not now. especially i have too limited experience yet.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

from this perspective it would be certainly better to have a target platform and developer within the original source tree and not an unsupported fork, as chris proposes. but as it is the fork is working and chris target is not. and there is none to help with it, including you. so go figure.

I, for one, would pay good money if everybody could just work together toward a good, 68k/3.9-compatible browser.

Doesn't look like I'll be spending that money any time soon!  

[wawrzon]

I, for one, would pay good money if everybody could just work together toward a good, 68k/3.9-compatible browser.

Doesn't look like I'll be spending that money any time soon!  

kay, so there is two of you, you may contact deadwood about the issue.there is a thread about the bounties on eab:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1059700#post1059700

this is about aros68k, but the odyssey bounties were not neccesarily restricted to aros afair. though as there was not much interest its hard to determine, how the bounty aim would have been forumlated.

[utri007]

OWB is not a answer, at least I don't belive it would be useable with real Amigas. It would require emulator or FPGA accelerator with 256mb ram.

OWB takes about 45mb ram just to start? Netsurf requires 11mb. Target is not a general web browsing, it just wount be possible with current CPUs. I just want to have possiblity to do some  googling and most importan download files from web.

[wawrzon]

OWB is not a answer, at least I don't belive it would be useable with real Amigas. It would require emulator or FPGA accelerator with 256mb ram.

OWB takes about 45mb ram just to start? Netsurf requires 11mb. Target is not a general web browsing, it just wount be possible with current CPUs. I just want to have possiblity to do some  googling and most importan download files from web.

odyssey might not be usable for real amigas, thats true, but we dont know exactly until we try. one could fiddle with some constants or so and see if it makes a difference. people who have better insight into the source like deadwood, who as i know is sceptical about this, might tell more. however what i can say from my experience aros owb, which ai have been trying out on an amiga as well, has similar resource demands as netsurf.

[utri007]

It would need to be useable with OS3.1, 68040 and 32 mb ram.

Useable means something like this  : I know http://www address wich have a file, wich I want to download. I can do that even if web page takes some time to load/display.

Problem is that we already have a proof of consept for those, it is possible with Netsurf. Getting OWB to same level would require time and effort, result is not known?

[wawrzon]

It would need to be useable with OS3.1, 68040 and 32 mb ram.

Useable means something like this  : I know http://www address wich have a file, wich I want to download. I can do that even if web page takes some time to load/display.

Problem is that we already have a proof of consept for those, it is possible with Netsurf. Getting OWB to same level would require time and effort, result is not known?

im not sure if you are in a position to make demands. im not even sure the version of netsurf you advocate fulfils your own criteria any better than any other alternative, even treated as a proof of concept. certainly not as far as i have been able to test it.

this said i wish you luck to motivate anybody to do this work the way you want it to be done.

[utri007]

Sorry if you feel like I'm making demands, purpose is discussing this. But I'm happy to tell that I'm not a position to make demans, so don't worry, now you can be sure.

I'm not talking about Chris's version, I talk about Netsurf in general. Chris has proven memory usage and CPU requirements. Arti has proven speed.

My example was poor, sorry that. Point was that nobody shouldn't wait that general web browsin would be possible 68k amiga, with currently excisting hardware.

To get participants for boynty, requirements should be considered carefully, so that it would interest as many as possible. CPU 68040 is realistic minium target cpu, so is 16mb ram to at least start (not use), OS3.1 should be possible, if it is done with MUI gui.

030 wich most real Amiga users have, is not just possible to achive.

I use Netsurf a lot, downloading files with it works nicely. It even has same feature as iBrowse, I can close browser and downloading continues in background, until file is downloaded.

If deadwood proofs that those are possible with OWB, it is OK. But I do know that current OWB for 68k requires quite lot memory. 45-60mb? you propably know this better. So just wondering why waist time with it, if there is more likely solution?

[Acill]

I didnt start this thread for an argument. I simply wanted to know if getting Netsurf working on a classic Amiga with a PPC card was something I can do.

Any tips on using it, getting it running or anything else positive is  appreciated. Anything else is not needed in the thread please. Disrespecting ANY amiga developer is silly and only results in less people wanting to contribute skill to keeping our platform alive.

[itix]

OK then I don't remember correctly why Novacoder calt his SDL AGA a dirty hack

Itix: Could you considering to help Chris? I do know that you don't have experience or interest with Reaction, but problem is elsewhere. Screen is not refreshed propely, etc.

Some years ago you said that you have considered to make 68k version of your netsurf MorphOS port.

I'd like to help but I really lack both time and motivation as I dont have 68k machine here. I have tried to port few of my programs to 68k but they have stagnated...

[utri007]

I could loan machine to you? Maybe you could find motivation that way?

[Acill]

I could loan machine to you? Maybe you could find motivation that way?

Thats a cool offer!

[chris]

I didnt start this thread for an argument. I simply wanted to know if getting Netsurf working on a classic Amiga with a PPC card was something I can do.

Is installing OS4 an option? Or maybe I could build a WarpOS version? I don't know how to do that though, I suspect it's not as easy as just using different GCC switches.

[QuikSanz]

You can only do what you can Chris. Some parts will need help that is out of our control. Hopefully someone that knows that part will step forward and raise their hand!

[fishy_fiz]

How about something like ELynx?
After roughly an hours work I've got a mostly working 68k binary.
Supports CSS and JavaScript, has a download manager, and is pretty quick. Seems a better match than Netsurf for "real" amigas (and is more capable in many ways too).
Sidebar, but take those RiscOS netsurf requirements with a grain of salt. They're akin to saying Quake will run on an '020+FPU+8meg. Technically true, but far from usable.

If anyone is interested, for a few donations I can polish up and release elynx (after initial test bins are released of course). Failing that it'll just get thrown on the "good enough for my own use" pile.
I'm pretty content with 68k OWB and Arti's Netsurf port myself, but am willing to spend some more time on it for a little bit of money.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

How about something like ELynx?
After roughly an hours work I've got a mostly working 68k binary.

ELynx is text only?  Interesting idea though, if it's more compatible with modern websites than any of the current Amiga offerings...