New Hyperion Entertainment Website http://a-eon.com/ - The Mystery Continues

[dammy]

I would change this statement to:

Although, I expect that'll start in earnest as soon as the actual prices are released

:laughing:

Question is, can they sell a complete Box with OS4 for under $500US with reasonable profit for the retailers.

[dammy]

Yeah, the market is pretty brutal out there right now.  They need to be price competitive to have a chance.  But they know that as well as we do, so let's give them a chance.  Let's hope for a US$499 intro price complete with a 17 inch screen.  Another greater than US$500 motherboard would kill the enthusiasm for sure.

I do not think even $400 let alone $500 for CPU/Mobo only offer will yield a viable economic enviroment.  We've seen how little SAM440 generated in new sales, that is a clear indication that the market is not going to bear any unrealistic pricing of CPU/Mobos.

[dammy]

you know NOTHING about Sam440 sales, so please refrain to spread fud. Thanks

They sure didn't sell tens or hundreds of thousands of units, now did they.  I'd be shocked if they sold in the four digits for total units.

[dammy]

Yet it would still be crap, when you have MOS/OS 4 flying in much less demanding hardware.

What would be crap?  If your  referring to the x86 board you quoted him saying, that would make a fine AROS mobo even though it's running on a single core.

[dammy]

about $2500 USD.

It better not be more then several hundred dollars for CPU/Mobo.  Else they are not going to get attract anyone outside of the community.  Ideally a full box should be around $500 with OS4 installed in order to get sales moving with fresh blood.  Think of what a disaster it would have been for C= had it not have A500/A600/A1200 sales.

[dammy]

When A1000 released 1985 it cost around 1295$
Recalculated into todays value should be around 1950$

So either cheaper then 1295 or 1950.
If that is with a case you got a deal

Who will buy it at that price?  Even more important, who outside the community will buy it at that pricing?

[dammy]

Well I assuming they been busy giveing AOS4 some dual core supprt or will be pretty pointless.  Unless they intend doing the work later on.
 
Lets be real people.  This will be at least twice the cost of a SAM.  Its a complete ssytem tehy will be selling.  I reckon easy Mac prices

While the rest of the world is looking at Sub $500 notebooks and Sub $300 netbooks while buying less desktops.

[dammy]

@Lando

You are living in a time when there was countless possibilities for many platforms to be mass-market. Amiga will never reach the Linux/Mac/Windows of this world (in the desktop market at least). So it will never be a "pile it high, sell it cheap" model.

Who will buy them if you ran off 1 million+ boards to get the price down to under 300 pounds?

Only real volume C= made money on was the A500/A600/A1200 because they were not asking an arm and a leg like they were for the big box Amigas.  You have to be able to sell it to the masses else your limiting yourself to OS4 users who needs to replace their A1s, Pegs, or SAM440s.

[dammy]

Not necessarily. You could build a high end machine targeted at a very specific audience provided it has top-notch apps. Or alternatively has what Apple has done very successfully have cult status. Such a business model would be low volume high margin. The Amiga has cult status but it’s lacking high end apps.

Weed.

Exactly my point.

[dammy]

The only outstanding feature of the XMOS chip I figured out so far is that the threads are hardware warranted real time. Thus, sub tasks can use RT features even in a non RT envirionemnt. But this surely has its limits once interaction with the Host non RTOS on the host cpu is involved, because then it is again a question of how the interruped triggered by the XMOS gets processed.

And I fail to see the need to include that XMOS chip on the mainboard, a pci(e) card would certainly do as well, for many purposes (when no dma master is required) even a usb extension would work

That's the reason it smells like SAM440ish to me, designed for something else.  Look at it this way, this is truly a make or break mobo for Ben and his partners.  Why in the world would they spend that type of additional money to add complexity to a mobo that has to be nearly bug free to recoup any ROI. That's a significant risk to undertake for S&G reasons because the components are cheap and there is no demand for it within the Amiga Community.  So it does sound like this mobo was in existence and was either bought out or perhaps exclusively licensed to avoid another AmigaOne:Teron PR disaster.

[dammy]

I guess they never thought what would be of interest next year, it was pretty much a mad journey from one project to the next by the anecdotes on the Deathbed Vigil and great publications such as On the Edge. I wonder what the living members of the C= Amiga team could come up with now if we locked them in a room with a few dev machines and lots of coffee!

Other then consoles or low end systems, I don't know what they really could produce that would be significant as far as desktops are concerned.  20+ years is a long time in desktop evolution for any group to produce something that would shock and awe the mature desktop market.

[dammy]

but there aren't any PowerPC CPUs for the desktop market that are competitive with even midrange x86 CPUs like the Core2 and Phenom II

The Cell in the PS3 has 8 cores clocked at 3,2 GHz, granted only 6 of those area available to the developer. Linux performes very well on the PS3. Its very cheap and I know people who use is as their desktop computer.

Also, you really need to look at performace vs powerconsumption. Which Intel x86 based CPU only uses less than the 440? and still gives the same performance.

I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs far from it, but my guess is that the CELL is more than powerfull enough and that the PPC does have a future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

How many watts does the SAM440's CPU/SoC consume?

[dammy]

Look in all honesty, I alreayd stated, I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs, its a hardware issue, I really dont care I just want to develop SW.

But as for this debate X86 vs PPC is futile, AmigaOS only chance of X86 is with AROS just accept it.
PPC has a lot to offer, and I bet you lots of beers, that if it didnt, then Hyperion would have chosen some thing else years ago.
When it all boils down, then I for one trust Hyperions choice.

I'll bite, what major success has Hyperion achieved to earn that trust?  AFIAK, it's two guy, one is only part time, who have a bunch of subcontractors who, last I heard, have not been fully paid for their initial work.  I would like to understand your reasoning to trust Hyperion's decisions, but I fail to see anything beyond simple faith that things will work out in the end.

This thread has become (as every x86 vs ppc thread does), the never ending story.

Over and out, I will go back to just reading news again. IMHO its those x86 zealots who are now killing of the amiga.

No, it's clearly the PPC fanatics who have hobbled the Amiga.  It was clearly a bad choice back then, it's suicidal choice to stay with something that's only use is for embedded market (automotive and networking because of Cisco use of PPC).  Netbooks will likely out preform X1000 on it's launch, question is now when will mobile phones surpass the X1000.

[dammy]

I bet you do.

I get the impression there is some confusion that there is some sort of hardware race to catch up with.

X86 does what X86 does, there is no obligation that PPC must follow or even lead. Why does it have to be more that 1mhz / a gadzillion terrafloppies or even capable of playing anything remotely close to the Assassins Credit Card ?

The imagination and application of technology drives change not the other way round. Computer Music only came into existence because of the interference cause by the computer electronics.

Whether or not X1000 is the best thing since sliced bread depends on the user and it doesn't even need a fighting chance at out flopping the x86, the Iphone proves that and it wasn't cheap either.

Stop concentrating on the what x86 can do and imagine what the x1000 could do. Or as Bruce Lee said "Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory!"

So your saying AI/Hyperion have completely given up on being anything remotely competitive in price and performance to the alternatives? The only justification to spending something that will most likely be outlandishly expensive is to run one of the three Amiga-like OSs on?  Yes, that does sounds like they have raised the white flag and have surrendered to their fate in the tar pool.  :rolleyes:

[dammy]

Accept what ? Whats a Middle PC is it less that a top one, or better than a small one ? All do email rather well, browsing the net a breeze and ironically the small one, I save 20 quid a month on electricity so it pays for itself rather than having a kick ass pc with kilowatt psu processing nothing most of the time..

Problem is Atom based, extremely cheap, PCs have more CPU power and also saves on power. Of course, if you really want highier end gfx, you can spend huge sums of money, probably equal to X1000 pricing, and buy gaming laptop.

If people are into raw processing power then buy 4 socket Quad core Xeons, don't even waste your time with a shop pc, raw slowness and its no bigger than a laptop and you can get 10 of em in the space of a large tower.

Horses for Courses, the X1000 won't be a competitor, nor is the Popcorn hour, Sky HD receiver, nor my tv or Iphone yet suprisingly they do things the middle pc doesn't.....ironic that.

Except the above is not trying to pass itself off as a computer either.