Hyperion: "Halloween special double-treat for the Classic AmigaOS"

[Iggy]

At this point, I really don't care.

If they want to sell 68k software, I'll give anyone a second chance.

Maybe they will do something with it, if not, I'm no worse off than I was yesterday.

Edit: That said, that's a really weak list of version numbers.

+1

[Iggy]

Can someone please clear this up once and for all?

Who the hell owns the 68k OS?

Commodore?
Amiga Inc?
Cloanto?
Hyperion?

 
 Commodore - Doesn't exist except as a trademark.
 
 Amiga Inc - Probably never owned anything except a trademark, but as a settlement in lawsuits brought by Hyperion has granted a license to Hyperion for the exclusive right to continue to develop operating systems from OS3.1.
 
 Cloanto - Former licensee of the software, continued distribute its software after dissolution of original licensor, which as of late has made multiple arrangements with various parties to strengthen its claim to ownership.
 
 Hyperion - See Amiga Inc.
 
 So what's confusing?
 
 That the Amiga curse taints everything like a wish granted by a cursed money's fist?

[Iggy]

@Olsen
Thank you for describing so elaborate how the closed source model doesn't work

 And yet the two most popular NG OS' are closed source, while AROS is a distant third.
 And Windows and OSX dominate the desktop market while Linux systems are a single digit percentage of the market (and that estimate is being kind).
 
 Its simple economics, professional programmers need to earn a living, there is no profit in open software to generate an income to pay the programmers.
 Open software is free, but you get what you pay for.
 
 Which explains why when I recently needed to uses a spreadsheet, even though I already had Open Office on my system, I paid for an Office365 license so I could have access to Excel.
 It's just a better program than its equivalent in OO.

[Iggy]

You want a REAL challenge?
 Take the OS apart a rebuild it using assembly code scrapping the C components and reduce its overall size while improving its performance.
 Before anyone says it can't or shouldn't be done, let me explain my logic.
 In the '80's and '90s I was using Microware's OS-9 operating system for 68K based commercial and industrial applications.
 Microware was promoting CDi and porting its OS to other platforms using C (the 68K version of OS-9 being written virtually entirely with assembly code).
 They called this variant OS9000, and as their products evolved, they tried to simplify the naming of all OS' to OS-9 and use the C based code for all versions including the 68K fork.
 In the long run, the customers asked for the original version to continue to be developed because it was faster, more efficient and more compact.
 
 No matter what anyone tells you about C, tighter code can be generated by more direct means.
 It just takes a lot more work and it isn't portable.
 
 You want retro?
 Go full retro, and re-write 3.1 to be tighter, faster and more efficient.
 THEN you'll also have the room needed for the improvements you've been discussing.
 
 The only reason this probably can't be done?
 Lack of programmer competency.

[Iggy]

No, I want a solution. That requires being pragmatic.

It IS a real solution, you just don't have programmers with enough talent enough to pull it off.
 Then again, I'm not sure there is anyone that can still code at this level.
 
 BUT, the ONLY realistic way you are going to shrink the existing code IS to replace the C coded portions of the OS.

[Iggy]

Wow, you should read to yourself what you wrote to Iggy just above, about insulting those who actually contribute. Wawrzon is doing plenty to contribute, give him your money.

 
 I'm not insulted, its just a difference of opinion.
 
 And since the market supports MY opinions, why should I care that another open source enthusiast doesn't understand basic economics?

 I needed Excel, no alternatives came close, I'm glad I bought it.
 I KNOW what my requirement were, so his opinions aren't relevant.
 
 Although, OSX is SO much better than Open BSD, and they regularly feed developments back to the OpenBSD community.
 Further, if NextStep hadn't been built on that, it could have easily been based on something else.
 
 Proprietary software IS better than open software.
 Its just a fact, one that he apparently can't deal with.
 
 But since the public has spoken with its funding, its irrefutable.

[Iggy]

Um, I haven't said one word about open / closed source at all. I responded to you calling people in a difficult situation incompetent and kolla bragging about an incomplete project.

Then you misinterpreted my comment.
When I was referring to competent programmers, I meant competent in coding using assembly, which is no longer a common skill, and certainly the few that still bother ARE no where near as competent as the programmers I worked with decades ago.

I other words, they couldn't do the work.

Further I AM insulted by your latest posts like this:

"You ungrateful person. Assuming that you are a productive member of society and not the typical, modern, "gimme dat" American (judging from your attitudes and behavior probably not a good assumption), why don't you get off your lazy butt and actually contribute something yourself? Or are you one of "those who can't, criticize those who can"?

First, at 55 I contributed MY work years ago.
Second, as a American, and in reference to 'lazy Americans'....
We produced the platform in the first place, per capita we are still some of the most productive people on the planet, and we still design the majority of the computer hardware that is used Worldwide.
 
Further as far as those "that can", I can and still do code in 68K machine language.
 I don't have to justify MY accomplishments to the likes of you, I was part of the management of a company designing and selling 68K based computers decades ago.

I'd rather exchange messages with people like Thomas that I have an honest difference of opinion with than you.

So, don't presume to know what you're talking about when you baselessly attack others.

[Iggy]

For sh1ts and giggles I uploaded the boot screen of my A1200
http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=204&pictureid=1382

Neat!
 I may have to get one of those for my A2000 if only for the new copyright and the difference in the splash screen.
 Thanks.

[Iggy]

Good for you, I am just happy I do not share your needs, I have my own needs and they are in general much better covered by open source based software.



You probably mean FreeBSD, but whatever - it is the BSD community, of which Apple is a part with their DarwinBSD which is the foundation of OSX, now macOS.



No, it could not "easily" have been built on something else, Steve Jobs was very clear about this.



It is not at all a fact, it is at best an illusion.

Quality of code has nothing to with whether it is open source or not, but open source allows _education_ and _participation_, from which great stuff and new opportunities can arise.

Bah! Free BSD, OpenBSD, both OS' with less market than Linux, and Linux is pretty dreadful.
 OSX/DarwinBSD - Which is the better of the two? Oh yeah, the COMMERCIAL version.
 So, what you think of as an illusion is a fact in the marketplace.
 Serious users don't rely on open source software (well, anywhere outside Germany).
 AND, Excel is significantly better than the spreadsheets offered in open software.
 
 Again, you get what you pay for.

[Iggy]

So which router are you using? And which operating system? There are quite a few open source based components in Windows too, you know.

I'm sure there are pieces of open source software in many proprietary OS'.
 I just don't feel comfortable relying on an entirely open OS.
 I've had much better experiences with closed operating systems, AND I can get support without having to go to a forum and asking for advice.
 
 As to my router, who really cares?
 I was using one when I purchased my internet service from Comcast.
 That's shelved as I'm using a higher tier FIOS connection (and Verizon supplied to hardware, so...).
 
 Look, I used to work with OS' that were often found in embedded applications, that's actually where I developed my intense dislike for Linux.
 So you're not going to sell me on open source OS' with an argument focused in that direction.
 
 And I must admit that I've occasionally considered exploring BSD, but its not a practical primary OS for me (any more than Linux would be).
 
 Now when I buy an X5000, I'll admit that I will be running Linux on it part of the time.
 BUT, that's a hobbyist system for me, so I'll accept some compromises.