Hyperion: "Halloween special double-treat for the Classic AmigaOS"

[kolla]

That they had to shrink workbench.library only to give space for new copyright text says a lot about their priorities. Anyways, my kickstart says 3.10, the next will be 3.11 for Workgroups, haha

[kolla]

Updated scsi.device and fastfilesystem is not only "useful", but rather crucial. Without that I don't see the point of this "update" at all, other than Hyperion going toe-to-toe with Cloanto over "who has copyrights".

[kolla]

@Olsen
Thank you for describing so elaborate how the closed source model doesn't work

[kolla]

And yet the two most popular NG OS' are closed source, while AROS is a distant third.

Do you have numbers to back up this claim?

I am pretty confident that the largest Amiga platforms are WinUAE, FS-UAE and uae4arm - all of which are open source. WinUAE and FS-UAE also come with AROS kickstart built in, who knows how many people out there use that kickstart without even knowing they are using AROS.

And Windows and OSX dominate the desktop market while Linux systems are a single digit percentage of the market (and that estimate is being kind).

You just "forget" to mention how open source fuel both those operating systems, and macOS in particular. If there had not been any BSD licensed software around, there would have been no OSX to talk of, and Windows wouldn't have had a TCP stack for many, many more years.

All Amiga TCP stacks are also based on open source.

Its simple economics, professional programmers need to earn a living, there is no profit in open software to generate an income to pay the programmers.

No profit in open source software, huh? You better tell all those companies that base their existence on open source software then, the companies that keep the Internet running, that provide us with platforms for all the apps people are using these days, that keeps this very site up and running, the made Facebook, Google, Amazon etc possible. No profit, huh?

Open software is free, but you get what you pay for.

Which explains why when I recently needed to uses a spreadsheet, even though I already had Open Office on my system, I paid for an Office365 license so I could have access to Excel. It's just a better program than its equivalent in OO.

Irrelevant anecdotal nonsense. To outweigh your experiences, I can tell you that I find MSOffice and OO both equally braindead and annoying to use. However, there are plenty of options that are much more convenient to use these days.

[kolla]

You brag about what you did but by your own admission it is incomplete. Wow! I didn't know that people were supposed to brag until there was some to actually brag about - you know actually completing something.

Wow, you should read to yourself what you wrote to Iggy just above, about insulting those who actually contribute. Wawrzon is doing plenty to contribute, give him your money.

[kolla]

For sh1ts and giggles I uploaded the boot screen of my A1200
http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=204&pictureid=1382

[kolla]

 I needed Excel, no alternatives came close, I'm glad I bought it.
 I KNOW what my requirement were, so his opinions aren't relevant.

Good for you, I am just happy I do not share your needs, I have my own needs and they are in general much better covered by open source based software.

Although, OSX is SO much better than Open BSD, and they regularly feed developments back to the OpenBSD community.

You probably mean FreeBSD, but whatever - it is the BSD community, of which Apple is a part with their DarwinBSD which is the foundation of OSX, now macOS.

Further, if NextStep hadn't been built on that, it could have easily been based on something else.

No, it could not "easily" have been built on something else, Steve Jobs was very clear about this.

Proprietary software IS better than open software. Its just a fact, one that he apparently can't deal with.

It is not at all a fact, it is at best an illusion.

Quality of code has nothing to with whether it is open source or not, but open source allows _education_ and _participation_, from which great stuff and new opportunities can arise.

[kolla]

Um, I haven't said one word about open / closed source at all. I responded to you calling people in a difficult situation incompetent and kolla bragging about an incomplete project.

It wasn't me, it was wawrzon, and he wasn't bragging, he was just providing an anecdotal example from the real world.

[kolla]

As said, it compiles under Linux, so it's not that bad anymore, actually.

You should get Iggy to buy you SCO UNIX, the old one, before they started relying on FreeBSD, maybe Xenix! Then it would be so much better! :laughing:

[kolla]

Serious users don't rely on open source software

So which router are you using? And which operating system? There are quite a few open source based components in Windows too, you know.

[kolla]

I'm sure there are pieces of open source software in many proprietary OS'.
 I just don't feel comfortable relying on an entirely open OS.
 I've had much better experiences with closed operating systems, AND I can get support without having to go to a forum and asking for advice.

From where do you get the idea that you have to go to a forum? Most open source software has bugtrackers where you submit bugs you encounter, and patches are welcome too. It was just two days ago I submitted a bug-report and a patch to have a piece of software build on non-x86 hardware, and this morning I got report saying the patch was accepted, appreciated and pushed upstream for next release.

 
 As to my router, who really cares?

You, according to yourself - "Serious users don't rely on open source software"

Maybe you do not rely on being online? Maybe you do not rely on service providers online?

I was using one when I purchased my internet service from Comcast.
 That's shelved as I'm using a higher tier FIOS connection (and Verizon supplied to hardware, so...).

 
What are the odds of that running Linux and busybox, do you think?

 Look, I used to work with OS' that were often found in embedded applications, that's actually where I developed my intense dislike for Linux.
 So you're not going to sell me on open source OS' with an argument focused in that direction.

I see, it is very personal, you worked with embedded, embedded moved to Linux, you got a dislike for it (which I can fully appreciate), and now you have a dislike for all open source just because "linux took my job".

And I must admit that I've occasionally considered exploring BSD, but its not a practical primary OS for me (any more than Linux would be).

macOS is pretty great as desktop. You could also look at TrueOS and GhostBSD. But, if Windows is your home, you will not feel at home anywhere else... well, maybe ReactOS.

 Now when I buy an X5000, I'll admit that I will be running Linux on it part of the time.

Then maybe you can send people like me some good vibes, who make sure software builds and works on that (and other) architectures that not at all "mainstream" for desktop use.

 BUT, that's a hobbyist system for me, so I'll accept some compromises.

Well, this hobby of yours is what runs the intertubes these days.

[kolla]

The Amiga V40 operating system can be built completely natively, using tools which only run on the Amiga operating system itself. That's nice, but not so nice if you wanted to perform automated build verification / smoke testing / integration testing.

Indeed, I fully appreciate that.

This is best performed automatically, regularly on a dedicated build server.

How do you do that? Thomas found a solution for that problem, and it involves Linux (but could also run on FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD/MacOS X/CygWin/AmigaOS).

It relies on the emulator (cannot recall the name) he has been working on, I suppose. This is great for future development, simplifies things a lot. The next steps would be to bit-by-bit replace the pieces of code that relies on "exotic" compiler options. This will most likely mean that you have to break the 512kB barrier for the kickstart - but so be it, at least temporary.

How do aspiring young developers, students etc, get to learn about how things work and how they can participate in improving the OS? No-one is getting any younger here.

And, no, SCO Unix will not do, due to its age.

Well, it is now called OpenServer and is based on FreeBSD, so I am sure it would work :laughing:

[kolla]

If anyone wants to know, most of the credits go to Christian Vogelsang, who set this project up. Its name is "vamos", and you find my branch here:

https://github.com/thorfdbg/amitools

Modifications I make there go back into Christian's repository, so don't worry. I don't want to separate this repository from his.

I must look into that, still have a few projects that have been "stalled" for years since I haven't bothered to keep a functional ADE/GG toolchain around on any of my Amiga systems. It would be great to just move it all into the "usual" workflow I have these days (git, jenkins+docker, repos).

In addition to vamos, you need the V45 shell. Oh, and of course the Os sources.

All available

Actually, the next step should be to collect all the pieces together and create a consistent Os source. That is, to fit back the "known good" upgrades back into the sources. From my side, this is layer, shell, "more", mathieee, - and what is not yet out - audio, keymap and keyboard (all from my side).

Actually, I would rather do it the other way around - first create consistent OS source of 3.1 as it was (and if possible, so one can "easily" build "clean" 3.1 from that), and then update the various components to their later incarnations, and add new components in a timely and tidy fashion. But, of course that is my opinion, you probably have compelling arguments for not doing it like this.

There are other components out there I would *like* to merge back, but of which I do not have the latest sources. SetPatch, FFS, scsi.

Why not start with what you do have, surely the processes can work in parallel?

Once that is done, one can think on how to proceed from there. So first things first, please.

Right, don't let us amateur thumb twiddlers slow you down :laughing:

[kolla]

The workbench.library/icon.library combo has, in my opinion, hit the wall so hard by now that it's coming out on the other side. The way in which workbench.library and icon.library interact with directory scanning is something I hesitate to call a self-inflicted injury.

One of the many examples of something that would be better to reimplement from scratch - though that would most likely also mean incompatibility with lots of existing "bedroom" software. Likewise, con-handler vs. console.device vs. shell, would be great to have that mess cleaned up.

[kolla]

Maintainability is of no use if no one maintains it

Exactly, maintainability also means availability.