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Author Topic: OK... why no new 68K boards?  (Read 3772 times)

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Offline Spektro

Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #44 from previous page: February 11, 2009, 04:38:50 AM »
Quote

alexh wrote:
I think the market for Classic Amiga users who already own an MC68060 chip is ridiculously small don't you?

No-one who has a working 68060 board is going to seriously consider buying a new one are they? Most (all?) boards support BlizKick for storing KS ROM and most owners of 68060 boards have already maxed them out with RAM.

The only reason to upgrade that I can think of would be something like a true 2x performance upgrade. And even then I think people would think twice considering the sums of money involved.


I have a broken 040 board (A3640) and I'm not really interested in 060 boards. I would be happy to get a new 040 board without a CPU. If I need more CPU power, I use my A1.

Those lucky ones who have a working 060 board may think like you said and the markets are small, I agree. I don't know anything about hardware design, but if there was a board with 3 (or 2?) CPU sockets (for 030, 040 and 060), with some nice but cheap extra features, and the installed CPU could be easily overclocked, it might sell quite well.
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2009, 07:17:12 AM »
Quote

alexh wrote:

...
edge connectors in RoHS plastic
...



 :-o
Never heard that - what's that meant to be?
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Offline alexh

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2009, 10:23:22 AM »
It is illegal in the EU to sell NEW electronic products using certain plastic connectors that were used in the past. That instantly rules out using most NOS (New old stock) connectors, if you could find them.

One part of the RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) requirements is that you must use a substitute for certain chemicals (mainly fire depressants) in your plastics. This has required development of new plastics and new tooling.
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2009, 11:02:50 AM »
Quote

DoogUK wrote:

Some of us like the fact we can still use 20 year old hardware...



 :-D

Sorry - but I feel I have to go slightly OT here.

Today is my Dad's 80th birthday and I prepared a big surprise for him.

When he was 18-20, he got himself a "music center" consisting of a record changer for old shellack disc recordings (78 rpm), LW/MW receiver, loudspeaker box and 2 record racks for 100 shellack records (50 each) - all fitted into a sort of sideboard.
When my parents and I fled from the "German Democratic Republic" in August 1959, my father had to leave his "music center" with all his records behind. My grandparents took it and later my aunt.

At some point in time my uncle didn't like the "music center" anymore and chopped it up - after dismounting the turntable drive. He had it in his basement for decades and after the iron curtain fell, my dad took it back as a sort of souvenir of his youth.

Now it rested in my dad's basement in Cologne - until last Saturday.

I had the idea to overhaul the turntable for my dad's 80th bithday so he can play some of his own (roughly 60 years) old records.

A few years ago I overhauled an old tube radio (Schaub Junior) for a friend of mine, who found it while cleaning up his attic - manufactured in roughly the same period as my Dad was born in.

Last night my friend borrowed me the old receiver and I brought the two together.

Wow - THAT was a sound, when I played 60 years old records on a 60 years old turntable using an 75 years old receiver and loudspeaker!
(the volume control currently doesn't work - it plays with max. volume!)


 :hammer:  :cheers:
All the best,

Dandy

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Offline bloodline

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2009, 12:16:29 PM »
@Dandy

And your father? What did you get him for his birthday?

Offline wawrzon

Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2009, 01:07:59 PM »
@bloodline:
Quote
We are all getting older too... one by one we will die and the Amiga will just be a foot note in history books.

its really sweet of you.
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2009, 01:56:33 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
@Dandy

And your father? What did you get him for his birthday?



I created the possibility for him to be able to listen to his own old records after having not been able to do so for a period of 40 years - that's half of his life!

I know the feelings I get if I now listen to an old record of mine that I didn't play for a decade or so - my Dad's feelings will even be stronger after four decades!

Furthermore he gets a ticket for the theatre and some money for the trip he & mum planned for this summer...
All the best,

Dandy

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Offline Darrin

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2009, 02:48:42 PM »
@ Dandy

What a great idea you had there.  I bet your dad will love it.  Thanks for sharing that story.
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Offline spirantho

Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2009, 05:22:08 PM »
Nice idea about the record player! But it'll be more like 50 years than 60 years I should think, if it has radios and stuff built in, and uses a diamond or ceramic stylus rather than a steel needle.

Incidentally, if you have any records that are valuable do NOT play them! Those old music centres were great for trashing vinyl/shellac at the best of times, and if it's not set up properly it can do a lot of damage, and if you're using an old stylus chances are they'll be ruined very quickly. You're unlikely to have anything worth $$$ but be careful! Basically if it's Blues don't play it without checking up on it, and some jazz is sought after too. Anything with Robert Johnson written on it keep safe. :)
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Offline Daedalus

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2009, 06:16:39 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

But I still remember when I first moved to LCD from CRT... I found it very uncomfortable... but now I'm used to LCD and I find CRTs uncomfortable... people just have to learn to get used to the new technology.


I still haven't moved to LCD at home, even though I have one as a second monitor, and use them all day, every day in work. I wouldn't say I find either uncomfortable, but I still don't like normal LCDs' colour rendition, or the restricted viewing angle, or their definition in bright light situations. I agree, most people won't mind and will just get used to LCD, but I'm one of those picky ones, and for me to have the colour, detail and resolution I want, I'd have to pay far more than your average LCD would cost. Yet about 5 years ago I picked up a 21" Trinitron which has all the colour definition, detail and resolution I want for the price of a few pints.

(It also happens that I still have a lovely 32" CRT TV in my living room for similar reasons)

Having said that, I do run WinUAE a fair bit and while there may be very little difference from my classic machine (bar the massive speed boost in some situations), it's still not the same. The keyboard's not the same in either layout or feeling, and it feels somewhat awkward to use ADFs (though I know that floppies shouldn't be an issue in this day and age.) WinUAE does give me the possibility to test software and settings on so many different configurations, as well as letting me use AmigaOS in the kitchen, living room, work etc., something I otherwise couldn't do.

Another thing that someone else mentioned here is the POST of all PCs. That does my nut in, it's like the manufacturer saying "Look at this: This machine has all sorts of complicated things going on that you wouldn't understand, mess with them at your peril!" I do understand its purpose and what it displays, but I don't want to see it. It reminds me of the Simpsons, where Homer (I think) suggests an "Everything's alright" alarm that sounds every few seconds when nothing's wrong. I believe a computer should only give you messages during startup that are important, like a memory test failure or a corrupt system file. Amigas used to do it like that, Macs still do.

P.S. I also note that some of these things are also an issue on AmigaOnes and the likes - there's a POST display, a PC keyboard and all the issues with floppies. And I think it's a shame :-(
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Offline Nostalgiac

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2009, 08:19:18 PM »
Quote

Incidentally, if you have any records that are valuable do NOT play them! Those old music centres were great for trashing vinyl/shellac at the best of times, and if it's not set up properly it can do a lot of damage, and if you're using an old stylus chances are they'll be ruined very quickly. You're unlikely to have anything worth $$$ but be careful! Basically if it's Blues don't play it without checking up on it, and some jazz is sought after too. Anything with Robert Johnson written on it keep safe. :)


oh come on... in my opinion it's more important his dad got this blast-of-the-past experience then any money can provide. How many kids would do such a nice thing :-)

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Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2009, 09:52:51 AM »
Quote

spirantho wrote:

Nice idea about the record player! But it'll be more like 50 years than 60 years I should think, if it has radios and stuff built in, and uses a diamond or ceramic stylus rather than a steel needle.



My dad bought the music centre in 1949 - so that's roughly 60 years as we have 2009 now, wouldn't you agree?

The built in radio just had LW and MW and the turn table uses steel needles.

Quote

spirantho wrote:

Incidentally, if you have any records that are valuable do NOT play them!



I don't think there are valuable records - but you're right - you never know...

Quote

spirantho wrote:

Those old music centres were great for trashing vinyl/shellac at the best of times,



From my own experience I'd say shellack records are ruggedised - as long as you don't bend them...

Quote

spirantho wrote:

and if it's not set up properly it can do a lot of damage,



Everything is set up properly and works like a charm.

Quote

spirantho wrote:

and if you're using an old stylus chances are they'll be ruined very quickly.



Still enough steel needles in stock - brand new and still in their original packagings.

Quote

spirantho wrote:

You're unlikely to have anything worth $$$ but be careful!



Yeah - you never know...

Quote

spirantho

Basically if it's Blues don't play it without checking up on it, and some jazz is sought after too. Anything with Robert Johnson written on it keep safe. :)



I'll have a close look at the disks before playing them...
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2009, 10:11:20 AM »
Quote

alexh wrote:

It is illegal in the EU to sell NEW electronic products using certain plastic connectors that were used in the past. That instantly rules out using most NOS (New old stock) connectors, if you could find them.

One part of the RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) requirements is that you must use a substitute for certain chemicals (mainly fire depressants) in your plastics. This has required development of new plastics and new tooling.



I see.
Initially I understood it that way that (card)edge connectors are not ROHS compatible (and thus no longer available?).

Before the introduction of ROHS I bought myself two big rolls of solder really cheap - enough solder for the rest of my life.

It is the good, old solder containing lead - and I'm not going to throw it away just because of some stupid EU directive.
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

Offline alexh

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2009, 10:14:40 AM »
You can still buy and use leaded solder everywhere.

You just cannot use it in parts which are then sold as retail.

The edge connectors are still available to order in RoHS for about $1 each but they have minimum order quantities (MOQ) of 1000 units.
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2009, 10:19:15 AM »
Quote

Nostalgiac wrote:

...
How many kids would do such a nice thing :-)



Thanks for the nice words!

Quote

Nostalgiac wrote:

UK, just west of London



Hmmmmm - next tuesday and wednesday I'll be on a business trip to Basildon (Trafford House) and South End On Sea - that's "just east of London"...
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: OK... why no new 68K boards?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2009, 10:28:10 AM »
Quote

alexh wrote:
You can still buy and use leaded solder everywhere.



Huh???
I would have expected it got banned by RoHS, as it contains lead.

Quote

alexh wrote:

You just cannot use it in parts which are then sold as retail.
...



Hmmmm - I'm not in hardware production in any way.
My soldering works are just for hobby puposes so far.

What would the legal situation be if I overhauled some electronic equipment - using my leaded solder - and then take money for the repairing work?
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)