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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: AmigaClassicRule on May 12, 2014, 04:14:59 AM

Title: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on May 12, 2014, 04:14:59 AM
(Moderators note: Thread is referring to the following failed crowd-sourcing campaign = https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/amiga-portable-console )


You guys attacked my first idea as some sort of scam. Honestly, that was not my intention...I am very new in the concept of project and having someone to donate money to make the project a successful. I am no artist and have no idea the financial requirement to make this project and have no idea the difficult and actually the demand behind it.

This is why ones the first donation from indiegogo stops the money will be returned to everyone who donated to that project. But this time I want to do it right from the start.

I have an idea for another project and instead of throwing some two lines of drawing and throw my idea and some random number for donation I want to do it here first correctly. I want to throw my idea first, see the demand behind it and ask for help for people who are good at 3D rendering and then get a statistically number of an accurate amount required to make this project happen. I want to see if people like it and if this is something should even be done. I am no scammer and nor do I want to take people's money and run away with it.


So here is my idea!

I want to develop a complete 8-bit system that have a sexy keyboard case just like an A500, C64c or MSX Wavy. This computer however is different in that it have two cartridge slot and the slot inside of it allows you to hook up an MSX game or NES game and you can play either NES or MSX games into this computer. The computer have the 6502 CPU in it and it allows you to play MSX, C64, Apple II, and NES games all in one shot. There will be VIC II, SID and all the other chips in it. I also realized that MSX, C64 and Apple II all use BASIC as a programming language.

This computer will have a special BASIC that have all the similar commands of these three systems plus the commands of those three systems in one BASIC language. This means you can run all BASIC games or apps from these systems in this one without needing to modify the program or port it for this machine. It will have all the RAMs and registries of each of these three different systems in place with this new system..thus all programs for NES, C64, Apple II and MSX will run natively on this machine without the required need of emulation in any regard.

If you put the 1541 disk drive on this machine it will run c64 games on it using this new BASIC OS for this machine. If I hook an apple ii disk drive external and turn the computer on..it will boot from the apple ii disk drive and run any apple ii programs natively in this machine. If I put a NES cartridge or MSX cartridge it will boot directly from that cartridge first.

Also with this BASIC program you can develop NES programs and compile it for the real NES..it will compile the program in .NES rom image and then you can use it on real NES or emulator NES. I am thinking of having a special BASIC OS to make development easier. Now this is all ideas I am putting it here and I am wondering what you guys think? Do you like it? Give me your ideas, input, how to start such project and if someone really likes the idea; then I would really like a 3D render to help me render good looking case and so on...

Any input would be nice...
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on May 12, 2014, 07:36:38 AM
The Amiga can do that already. Just use an A1200 with emulator installed.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Britelite on May 12, 2014, 07:54:13 AM
Quote

Any input would be nice...

Dreaming is nice, but that's all you idea will ever be: a dream.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: rvo_nl on May 12, 2014, 08:44:30 AM
I like ideas, so dont get me wrong. Even if they seem ambitious. Technical issues aside, I dont think there would be a big demand for a multi-platform console. retro enthusiasts will get the individual consoles for nostalgia value. and you wont attract many 'new' customers, tbh. In fact, I doubt your device would sell more than 10 units, and Im afraid you need a lot more than that to make it commercially viable.

Last, just because devices share the same cpu or have similarities in basic, this doesnt mean they are easily made compatible. After all, games did not get programmed in basic and a lot of consoles have custom hardware. If you really want to proceed, then look at the Chameleon64 device: no cartridge slot there, but able to load disk/cartridge images, and the ability to act as an Amiga, C64 and whatnot, all from the same device.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: bloodline on May 12, 2014, 08:48:26 AM
Start with a known platform, I suggest a RasperryPi (because it's cheap, plentiful and capable of what you want to do). Then assemble the emulators required and the write an app that ties the emulators together, in the way you want. It will essentially be an app launcher, which perhaps can offer a "BASIC" command line OS function.

-edit- perhaps you could start your project with this: http://cbmbasic.sourceforge.net

Next build the cart interface, I would suggest using a microcontroller like the Teensy 3.1, as it has enough IO to interface with an 8bit Cart and can send the data over USB, which will be much easier to interface with your software part should you change platforms.

-edit- I forgot to mention that the Teensy 3.1 is also 5V safe, making it perfect for interfacing with old Electronics from the 80s.

Sounds like a fun hobby project. Certainly, it has no commercial value.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: IanP on May 12, 2014, 08:58:41 AM
You do know that the MSX computers were Z80 machines not 6502 right?

Who wants cartridge slot loading computers or consoles these days? Games and other software comes in the form of files you download from the internet in the 21st century.

Are you thinking of some kind of hybrid machine that is compatible with MSX, C64, NES and Apple II all at the same time with a single hardware configuration and OS? If you are then good luck with that because I'm no expert on these various platforms but I strongly suspect the inherent incompatibilities are enormous and insurmountable.

The differences between the various dialects of 8 bit BASICs often reflect the differences in the architectures, operating systems and expansion options. The BASIC interpreter and OS takes up a large chunk of the address space on these machines for the ROM image. A hybrid version would inevitably be much larger.

Does anybody actually want an MSX, C64, NES, Apple II hybrid computer apart from yourself AmigaClassicRule? Wouldn't most people prefer to use emulators of those machines or perhaps FPGA implementations on an MCC216, Chameleon 64 or Replay?
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: gaula92 on May 12, 2014, 10:33:17 AM
@IanP: I clearly prefer FPGA computers instead of old hardware. They are exactly the same externally.
As for software emulation, my experience is very bad, with laggy controls, wrong resolutions and hard to configure perfectly smooth scrolls in 50Hz modes. With FPGA computers I didn't have any of these problems, they are exactly the same as a 80's-90's Amiga (if you take the Minimig, for example).

Software emulation depends too much on the underlying OS and most moder oses are unpredictable, so emulation is FAR from perfect and it will never be. So FPGAs for me without thinking :)
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Iggy on May 12, 2014, 11:28:11 AM
I see hope in simpler FPGA devices like Grant's MultiComp.

http://searle.hostei.com/grant/Multicomp/

With a few additional chips this could do something like what you are suggesting.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on May 12, 2014, 11:35:52 AM
@Gaula92
You should try the latest Winfellow. There is no input lag whatsoever. Excellent for all the platformer games.
It is still beta and will crash except for a few configs.
I've found that using the AmigaForever roms, and leaving only one floppy drive enabled is very stable. 020 28mhz or 68k 7mhz. Played for hours without crashing.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Duce on May 12, 2014, 12:52:25 PM
I'll try to say this as respectfully as possible - I do know you have good intentions with this, but surely you can see why people were attacking it?

You've come here, many times - asking very "green" questions.  One recently was something simple like how to install a .library file on your real Amiga.  Another was some basic info about '060 chips.  That's great, and that's what A.org is for - getting answers.  But...

Fast forward a few weeks, add one copy of MS Paint for your mock up of the device - and you're now a hardware engineer and software, capable of custom making chips, programming unique new operating system functions.    Talking as if you duct taped together a 6502, a 68000, SID chips, stuff them in a shoebox, paint a controller on the shoebox and cut a few cartridge slots into it and call it a consumer ready product.

It doesn't really work that way.  I didn't see your initial idea as a scam, per se - but I imagine many did.  Drawing up a rectangle in MS paint, tacking the Amiga checkmark on it doesn't make it a viable product, and it doesn't make you a software or hardware engineer capable of even putting the basics behind this dream device together.  

Sorry, just how I see it.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 12, 2014, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: IanP;764286
Who wants cartridge slot loading computers or consoles these days? Games and other software comes in the form of files you download from the internet in the 21st century.
You do realize you're posting on an Amiga forum, right?
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Boot_WB on May 12, 2014, 01:03:17 PM
@Duce

+1 billion

@Atheist (I mean AmigaClassicRule)

For a moment consider, had you reached your funding target, what would you do next?

What is the detailed plan? what are the costs? what challenges are to be faced? which competent people do you have on board who have the necessary skills to take this vague concept and turn it into a reality?

That's why it's been labelled as a scam: You're asking other people to donate their money to your "project" with absolutely no idea how to manage that pot of other people's money effectively in order to create a product.

You may not be deliberately trying to profit from it yourself, but you clearly do not have any clue as to how to proceed even if you did get the money. You do not have the competencies required to do what you propose, yet you are asking people for money.

If not deliberate scam, then this is at least the equivalent of a dodgy quote from a cowboy builder.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: spirantho on May 12, 2014, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;764278
The computer have the 6502 CPU in it and it allows you to play MSX, C64, Apple II, and NES games all in one shot. There will be VIC II, SID and all the other chips in it.


Forgetting for a moment the massive complexity of putting all the chips in one box, where will you get these VIC-II and SID chips from?

I can see what you're trying to do, but honestly - there is so much more you need to know before you can even start thinking about this.

Start from the bottom and go upwards - don't start with massive expectations and cut back.
Begin with a low-cost, simple platform which just does one thing. Then add features until done. In other words: walk before you try to run. At the moment you're trying to do a full Irish Riverdance before you've learned how to toddle.

Hasn't this already been done by other consoles anyway? I'm sure there's at least one cartridge-loading console which uses FPGAs and software emulation for everything (the only practical way of doing it).

I'm not trying to unduly criticise you - I know you're not a scammer and have genuine interests at heart, but you'd be well advised to thoroughly study how a computer works before trying to make a new one.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on May 12, 2014, 01:48:11 PM
Have you checked out the NES scene just google that.
What you want is tiny Linux install around 60MB make sure it has one of the GUI desktops. Install every emulator there is.
Time required: A couple of hours, plus more if you need to learn the emulators.
Price: $0.05 $5 if you want to install with USB stick.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Calimeiro on May 12, 2014, 02:43:05 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;764293
You do realize you're posting on an Amiga forum, right?

So what's your point? That this forum is for 8-bit machines using 5.25" discs or cartridges?
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Calimeiro on May 12, 2014, 02:48:04 PM
What Duce said, ...

plus, the only capability of yours is to wait for money. There is no line of code, no skills in electronic showing up. Thus, starting a new campaign, new idea for fund raising will move you back in to the same corner you've been in "under attack".
No progress, not even mentally.

Wake up.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 12, 2014, 02:53:11 PM
Quote from: Calimeiro;764300
So what's your point? That this forum is for 8-bit machines using 5.25" discs or cartridges?
My point is that arguing that nobody likes old computers on a forum dedicated to old computers is idiotic. Whether they use 5.25" discs or 3.5" discs or cartridges or tape or freaking vinyl records is utterly irrelevant.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: IanP on May 12, 2014, 04:19:22 PM
And yet only the Armiga has bothered to include a floppy drive on their proposed new Classic Amiga. All the FPGA based ones have ignored floppys and gone with flash storage devices only. That's because you don't have to be a masochist to like old computers, if there's a way to make the "old computer" better then why not do it. Hard drives and optical drives are getting rarer as flash storage gets cheaper and the cloud looms larger.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Iggy on May 12, 2014, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: IanP;764307
And yet only the Armiga has bothered to include a floppy drive on their proposed new Classic Amiga. All the FPGA based ones have ignored floppys and gone with flash storage devices only. That's because you don't have to be a masochist to like old computers, if there's a way to make the "old computer" better then why not do it. Hard drives and optical drives are getting rarer as flash storage gets cheaper and the cloud looms larger.

I'm not worried about the availability of hard drives or optical media, but floppies?
Heck, they don't even make 5 1/4" floppies anymore and 3 1/2 " floppies are getting harder to get.
With their high capacity, flash cards are the only thing that makes sense.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: bloodline on May 12, 2014, 04:43:06 PM
Like the CRT when faced with the advancement of LCD technology... The old rotating media seem positively archaic now. Floppies, CDs, DVD have all disappeared from my life. I sill have a Hard drive, but that is a 3TB NAS... I never see it :)
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: psxphill on May 12, 2014, 06:16:40 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;764278
I am very new in the concept of project and having someone to donate money to make the project a successful. I am no artist and have no idea the financial requirement to make this project and have no idea the difficult and actually the demand behind it.

Which is why you shouldn't even be considering asking others for money.
 
Crowd funding is for when you know what you want to do, how to do it and how much money it's going to cost.
 
Until you know the answer to all three of these then don't expect anyone to give you any money.
 
Otherwise all you're doing is asking for money so you can play.
 
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;764278
This computer will have a special BASIC that have all the similar commands of these three systems plus the commands of those three systems in one BASIC language. This means you can run all BASIC games or apps from these systems in this one without needing to modify the program or port it for this machine. It will have all the RAMs and registries of each of these three different systems in place with this new system..thus all programs for NES, C64, Apple II and MSX will run natively on this machine without the required need of emulation in any regard.

What you've described is actually impossible.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: LiveForIt on May 12, 2014, 06:43:40 PM
@IanP

Quote
That's because you don't have to be a masochist to like old computers.

Stoped using my old Amiga500 because I felt like a masochist a long time a go, and yes I made shore the Amiga500 did not work any more, lets say frustration level had picked to a point, I where able to get over slow CPU and floppy drive.

Quote
if there's a way to make the "old computer" better then why not do it.

If you want to be nostalgic about some thing you better keep it original, or what else it the point, its impossible to be nostalgic about some thing that was made yesterday.

Anyway whats the problem whit making old Amiga computer better is that, you get kind of sandwich computer that you can move or touch whit out fear of some thing coming lose, and you spend days trying to find out what is not plugged in correctly.

And that's way I did not buy a Amiga4000 when did have money, I just where not that mad, anyway I'm happy being a AmigaOS4 user, not nostalgic about hardware, but I'm nostalgic about the OS.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: ajlwalker on May 12, 2014, 07:47:47 PM
I have no interest in NES, I have no interest in MSX, I have no interest in Apple II. I have an interest in C64.

I already have two C64 machines, three if you count the dud C64GS.

I have no interest in buying this proposed machine. I'm not sure how many people would be interested at all really.

I love to hear ideas, but this doesn't seem a good one. Don't take it the wrong way, you'll come up with something better I'm sure.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: kickstart on May 12, 2014, 07:58:05 PM
A dream isnt a idea.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Methuselas on May 12, 2014, 08:44:16 PM
Quote from: Boot_WB;764295

@Atheist (I mean AmigaClassicRule)



OMG! *THIS* explains everything! How could I haven not seen this sooner! :rofl:
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: danwood on May 12, 2014, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: bloodline;764311
Like the CRT when faced with the advancement of LCD technology... The old rotating media seem positively archaic now. Floppies, CDs, DVD have all disappeared from my life. I sill have a Hard drive, but that is a 3TB NAS... I never see it :)


Yet no serious retro gamer would ever use an old 8/16-bit system with an LCD.  Flash carts on the other hand are very useful :)
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: psxphill on May 12, 2014, 10:15:17 PM
Quote from: danwood;764326
Yet no serious retro gamer would ever use an old 8/16-bit system with an LCD.

I disagree. I have several old 14" 15khz monitors that I use, but I also use LCD's. I've even been known to use a composite video capture usb to use the laptop lcd as you don't need to be plugged into power.
 
None of them look like the TV that I used in the 80's, which died about 7 years ago.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Iggy on May 13, 2014, 01:14:01 AM
Quote from: danwood;764326
Yet no serious retro gamer would ever use an old 8/16-bit system with an LCD.  Flash carts on the other hand are very useful :)

Between this and the comment about the C64, you've managed to alienate me.
Who gives a ...
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: persia on May 13, 2014, 04:24:33 AM
Yeah, 4K LED all the way!

Quote from: danwood;764326
Yet no serious retro gamer would ever use an old 8/16-bit system with an LCD.  Flash carts on the other hand are very useful :)
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: NovaCoder on May 13, 2014, 05:54:49 AM
Quote from: IanP;764307
And yet only the Armiga has bothered to include a floppy drive on their proposed new Classic Amiga. All the FPGA based ones have ignored floppys and gone with flash storage devices only. That's because you don't have to be a masochist to like old computers, if there's a way to make the "old computer" better then why not do it. Hard drives and optical drives are getting rarer as flash storage gets cheaper and the cloud looms larger.


I agree, I love my A1200 but the best thing about it is using WHDLOAD to play games (my floppy drive doesn't get much use!)
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: donpalmera on May 13, 2014, 06:25:59 AM
"I had a brain fart, I mean an *idea*, I have no idea how to implement said idea or how much it would cost but give me some money"

Seems like a scam to me.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: carls on May 13, 2014, 01:46:26 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;764278
I want to develop a complete 8-bit system that have a sexy keyboard case just like an A500, C64c or MSX Wavy. This computer however is different in that it have two cartridge slot and the slot inside of it allows you to hook up an MSX game or NES game and you can play either NES or MSX games into this computer. The computer have the 6502 CPU in it and it allows you to play MSX, C64, Apple II, and NES games all in one shot. There will be VIC II, SID and all the other chips in it. I also realized that MSX, C64 and Apple II all use BASIC as a programming language.


Apart from all the other question marks raised by this, I'm curious as to where you'll find all the custom chips needed. There's not exactly a cheap Chinese production line on standby for manufacturing SID and VIC chips. If you want to buy up and slaughter old consoles and computers for spares, you'll hardly become popular in the communities and besides, these machines are getting increasingly scarce.

I'm afraid going into retro hardware is hardly a place for get-rich-quick-schemes. Most people doing advanced hardware stuff like this are driven out of a passion for a certain platform and I'd be surprised if you could find more than two or three persons world-wide who've managed to earn a living from it for any substantial amout of time.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: spirantho on May 13, 2014, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: carls;764367
Apart from all the other question marks raised by this, I'm curious as to where you'll find all the custom chips needed. There's not exactly a cheap Chinese production line on standby for manufacturing SID and VIC chips. If you want to buy up and slaughter old consoles and computers for spares, you'll hardly become popular in the communities and besides, these machines are getting increasingly scarce.

I'm afraid going into retro hardware is hardly a place for get-rich-quick-schemes. Most people doing advanced hardware stuff like this are driven out of a passion for a certain platform and I'd be surprised if you could find more than two or three persons world-wide who've managed to earn a living from it for any substantial amout of time.


For the record, I have spent much of the last year purchasing stock from China (which is still a happy hunting ground for old chips - IF you can find the decent sellers) for my repair service.
After a great deal of time and money (measured in the thousands of dollars) I have a total of 51 SID chips that fully work, about 50 C64 CPUs, 50 C64 CIAs, 10 VIC-II, about 20 8501 CPUs (C16/+4), 20 or so 8360 TEDs (also C16/+4), and various other chips such as old RAM chips, MC6845 CRT controllers, that sort of thing. I have 8 PAL VIC I chips (for the VIC-20) with another 50 on the way, and 9 NTSC VIC I chips.

I can tell you now the chances of getting a regular supplier of these chips is zero.
Mostly because I've bought most of them. :) Even the ones I found though have had quantities of about 50 pieces maximum - nowhere near enough for a full production run of a console using them.

Note: In case anyone's worried about me stopping anyone else from buying them by buying them all, remember these Chinese places have a minimum order quantity in the hundreds of dollars, charge about $50 shipping (courier) and often don't take PayPal... and of course many of them are scammers who don't actually have any chips but just take your money and run.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: OlafS3 on May 13, 2014, 05:20:57 PM
@Spirantho

LOL

You have now a monopoly on C64 parts :-)

@Thread

I do not know why someone wants funding for a 8-bit computer on a amiga forum?

@AmigaClassicRule

The 8bit computer were very different at that time (C64 had best capabilities in regards to gaming). Programmer at that time discovered a lot of tricks to get the most of the hardware (in many cases undocumented). I remember FLI making it possible to have more than 16 colors on C64, developer used RasterInterrupts to show many sprites, programmer used undocumented processor commands (a problem when new accellerators were created) and so on. Hardware like FPGA Arcade uses different Cores for the different systems because of that. Combining different systems in one core is totally impossible.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: wrath of khan on May 14, 2014, 12:42:05 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U_JswUb69Ag/UFCpDHZXJ4I/AAAAAAAAHu4/Aut756ZtIas/s1600/quantum-leap.jpg+w=545.jpg)
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: fishy_fiz on May 14, 2014, 01:55:23 AM
Unless Athiest is also Foody, then it's not Athiest.

In regards to optical media, it's demise is somewhat exaggerated.
Personally I have 6TB (2*3) of non system specific data (video, emu games, pdf docs, etc.). If either of these drives died Id be gutted at the volume of data lost, so I backup new content to bluray from time to time. This isnt practical any other way. Not to mention its cheaper to buy original discs than it is to download a 40gig movie (size of typical 1080p 3d rip of decent quality).
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on May 14, 2014, 02:10:24 AM
It is him. Google his name.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: persia on May 14, 2014, 02:19:54 AM
@fishy_fiz

One word - RAID
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: agami on May 14, 2014, 02:44:34 AM
Technically, RAID is an acronym representing four words.
But I do agree, anything worthwhile should be stored on RAID.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: agami on May 14, 2014, 03:32:03 AM
@AmigaClassicRule

Didn't think you were a scammer, just that your idea was very one dimensional. All you had to do is look at a hardware project on Kickstarter to see how crowd funding works.
When you ask people to pledge money for a hardware or software project on a crowd funding site you are crossing the boundaries of social norms over to commercial norms. This generally results in donations being secondary.

As many of the others have mentioned in this thread, if you are simply looking for donations then you should show how much of the work you have done yourself, in terms of hardware engineering or code, then put a PayPal Donate link on your site for people to donate money for you to continue the work.

For some reason you see this forum as "The Dragon's Den" where you might catch the attention of a venture capitalist with a "back of a napkin" idea.

Hate to break it to you kid, I'm assuming you're a kid because of the level of depth you go into with your ideas, these days ideas alone aren't enough, and they haven't been enough for a long time. The person who just has the cool idea is the one that is disregarded the earliest. Hell, it's not even worth a finders fee.

Execution is everything.

So when you do have your next idea consider what is the problem you are solving.
Once you identify the problem try and put a price on the problem, i.e. What is it costing people by not fixing the problem, or what are people currently paying to solve the problem. Don't forget, time=money.
Then do some research in components and labour costs for building your idea and then see if you can solve the problem at a lower cost.
You don't have to be a hardware or software engineer yourself, though it helps to have an understanding of what these disciplines entail, but you should at the very least have the ability to source information and put it together.
Then you can bring all that info to people via a crowd funding site. People want to see that you have done your research and that there is a decent chance that you can execute the idea.

Best of luck to you.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Boot_WB on May 14, 2014, 03:40:24 AM
Quote from: agami;764406
Technically, RAID is an acronym representing four words.
But I do agree, anything worthwhile should be stored on RAID.


Why? Even with a striped array of identical disks which provide for recovery after a hard drive failure through striping checksum bits (and therefore sacrificing (1/no of disks) total capacity) its main advantage is in speed. If a second one goes whilst the RAID is rebuilding, say goodbye to the lot.
Practical for a server in a busy office, not really for home implementation. And most offices will have nightly tape backups stored offsite in case of disaster anyway.

Anything worthwhile should just be backed up in multiple locations. Most peoples' 6TB of vital data is 5TB of ripped video/audio (replaceable, if annoying to lose), 0.9TB of pictures, and 0.1TB of documents.
If it's that important, prioritise the irreplaceable, and back it up regularly.
Swap a hard drive every month with a friend so you both have safe storage in case of disaster, or set up a regular mirrorcopy to cloud storage. Chances are you won't change most of your important stuff very often, so once uploaded bandwith usage will be minimal.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: fishy_fiz on May 14, 2014, 04:06:23 AM
I dont disagree about raid being a good idea at times, but for my setup, not to mention theyre usb drives makes it not an option for me. Two of my main machines are an i5 laptop, and an a64 x2 laptop I use for AROS. Apart from that I have an i7 system I use as an entertainment centre/gaming rig (connected to av amp and main tv, etc.). Add my AROS desktop system, my amithlon box and my a1200 and Im pretty well out of room for computers, none of them really suited to a raid system.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: agami on May 14, 2014, 05:28:44 AM
A few issues with your view

Quote from: Boot_WB;764411
If a second one goes whilst the RAID is rebuilding, say goodbye to the lot.


That's why there is RAID 6

Quote from: Boot_WB;764411
Practical for a server in a busy office, not really for home implementation.


Home NAS appliances have been amongst the highest and fastest selling products in 2013.

Quote from: Boot_WB;764411
Anything worthwhile should just be backed up in multiple locations. ...
If it's that important, prioritise the irreplaceable, and back it up regularly.


Yep. Information Architecture 101. Mission critical and business critical information should be backed up prolifically and often.

Quote from: Boot_WB;764411
Swap a hard drive every month with a friend ...


You're assuming people have a friend they are prepared to share their pr0n collection with ;)

Seriously though. I don't have unlimited bandwidth, and my upload is extremely slow. I have over 1000 movies and 50+ TV shows with multiples of seasons each. I'd hate to think of re-downloading all of that. That's why it's on a Synology NAS with RAID 5. Yes, a double disk failure would be the end of that, but the odds of a double disk failure occurring are far less than a single disk failure.

I recently copied all of my movies and TV shows for my sister onto her own Synology NAS so now at least I don't have to download those again.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: B00tDisk on May 14, 2014, 01:51:19 PM
needs more phone jacks!
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Boot_WB on May 14, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
Quote from: agami;764416
That's why there is RAID 6

Not looked into RAID 6*, used to have a 7-disk SAS RAID5 setup though - blazing fast, a pretty lightshow (as each drive had an activity LED), but damn noisy: not something you want in your bedroom. :)

* Oooh, field theory. I'll bookmark that and stretch my maths muscles with an in-depth read one night.

Quote
You're assuming people have a friend they are prepared to share their pr0n collection with ;)

Kryptos :D

Quote
Seriously though. I don't have unlimited bandwidth, and my upload is extremely slow. I have over 1000 movies and 50+ TV shows with multiples of seasons each. I'd hate to think of re-downloading all of that. That's why it's on a Synology NAS with RAID 5. Yes, a double disk failure would be the end of that, but the odds of a double disk failure occurring are far less than a single disk failure.

True, but the chances of a single disk failure + block errors on a remaining disk are much higher.

My brother is in a similar position - approx 20TB of (mainly video) data, with no obvious way of backing it up regularly. We've looked at possible RAID solutions for disk redundancy, but most are cost prohibitive compared to the benefit (ie not protecting against fire/burglary/multiple disk failure due to power surge).
In his case, he probably has less than 10GB of irreplaceable data - the rest is multimedia. Taking periodic backups (of the media files) offsite is probably the only feasible solution in his case, meaning a complete duplication of storage capacity.

Sigh. I remember when I has a 80MB IBM 2.5" hard disk in my A1200, and wondered what I'd do with all that space.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on May 14, 2014, 04:11:11 PM
The best thing to do is unplug the drive. Store it. Just check it every six months.
3 copies on different hard drives is about as safe as can be.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: SysAdmin on May 19, 2014, 09:15:00 AM
I no longer dream in C64 and never dreamed in MSX.

:)

Moving thread to Alternate OS section.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: som99 on May 19, 2014, 07:42:16 PM
I got one machine with ZFS for backup in my garage, one server hosting most on mirror raid and works quite well for me :)

I collect games and all software for all systems, from consoles to home computers from the early beginning to PS2/GC/Xbox and mid 2000 on PC and have a vast collection by now gathered over the years, I do this because I enjoy retro gaming and want all consoles + interesting home computers and as fas as possible be able to play backups on em.
(a new server is soon going to be built with X-CASE RM 424 - 24 and 24x 4TB drives in the future, but all my interests cost money and 24 drives cost a lot so gotta prioritize but I hope to be done with it this year at least, still have a few expensive consoles missing from my collection I want to get before they skyrocket more)

Also to preserve it, so not to much perish over the years :)

Put so much time in gathering stuff over the years from private trackers where we collect and gather for complete sets together and much ebay/garage sales hunting and so forth to get as much as possible :)

Wow this went to be to much of a wall of text, but ZFS is great for ones who wanna try that for backup, bur no matter what way you prefer to have backups more then one machine is to recommend :) *crossing fingers my garage wont burn down if my house does*
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Iggy on May 19, 2014, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;764639
I no longer dream in C64 and never dreamed in MSX.

Personally, I never had much use for the C64, but genlockable MSX video still interests me.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: SysAdmin on May 20, 2014, 05:18:57 AM
Quote from: Iggy;764654
Personally, I never had much use for the C64, but genlockable MSX video still interests me.

Cool, I never had a MSX machine so don't know what pleasures it provided.
Title: Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
Post by: Gilthanaz on May 20, 2014, 09:21:55 AM
Just in case no one has mentioned it yet:
http://www.cnet.com/how-to/create-a-retro-game-console-with-the-raspberry-pi/

Raspberry with controller support to play all kinds of games on emulators using a controller. If you want to go really old school:

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/how-rig-raspberry-pi-support-nes-controllers

You can attach original NES controllers to the raspberry as well, so...

Also, i've seen one of those built into an arcade cabinet with one of the very old school control stick(s) and buttons for the super-retro arcade-hall experience.

Have fun.

Edit:
Also, you could put the whole thing into an old computer chassis and fit in some standard keyboard + PSU and you'd have your all-in-one-machine-like-that-c64-was :)

- G