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Author Topic: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!  (Read 63319 times)

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Offline olsen

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 08:17:56 AM »
Quote from: Piru;575879
Can you provide any reasons as to why there should be anything else than 68000 and 68020 binaries?


It may not add up to much, but with instruction scheduling enabled in the code generator, the '060 binary should do better than the plain '020 binary.
 

Offline olsen

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 08:28:30 AM »
To add a few more facts to the mix: chances are that there will not be a GUI. In fact, it was tough to get a GUI made in the first place, and in the second and the third place, too. I tried three times to get this project off the ground and it was always the GUI development work which stalled it.

Instead of the GUI you'd be tinkering with configuration files, just like with AmiTCP in the old days. The difference this time being that Roadshow automatically rereads the config files after you have modified them. You won't have to restart the network just to make the changes stick.

As for documentation, I'd have to write a basic cookbook on how to set up and use Roadshow first. On top of that, there's always the SDK and the existing documentation for the individual shell commands and configuration files.

I have no idea what to do about the distribution yet. It could be a download from a web site, it could be mailed out on a CD-ROM. What would you prefer?

As for reasonable pricing, I haven't got the foggiest what a reasonable price would be. The nominal 10€ are at the lower edge of what I would consider reasonable. What amount would you consider reasonable?
 

Offline smf

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 08:48:48 AM »
Quote from: olsen;575946


I have no idea what to do about the distribution yet. It could be a download from a web site, it could be mailed out on a CD-ROM. What would you prefer?

As for reasonable pricing, I haven't got the foggiest what a reasonable price would be. The nominal 10€ are at the lower edge of what I would consider reasonable. What amount would you consider reasonable?


For me 10€ for a downloadable version would be very reasonable, i was not even intrested about this from the beginning but at that price it can be worth it even if i mostly use my OS4 machine nowdays.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 08:51:13 AM »
Quote from: olsen;575944
It may not add up to much, but with instruction scheduling enabled in the code generator, the '060 binary should do better than the plain '020 binary.

It may, but as you know it is totally irrelevant for something as I/O bound as TCP/IP stack.

The performance difference I've seen between 020 and 060 optimized code has always been insignificant. This was, however, before gcc3/gcc4 so perhaps things have improved since then.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:54:02 AM by Piru »
 

Offline olsen

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 10:06:02 AM »
Quote from: Piru;575951
It may, but as you know it is totally irrelevant for something as I/O bound as TCP/IP stack.

The performance difference I've seen between 020 and 060 optimized code has always been insignificant. This was, however, before gcc3/gcc4 so perhaps things have improved since then.


Though the code builds with GCC, I haven't tried any of the newer 68k compilers yet. From what I hear the GCC 68k branch is not in quite as much demand as the other, more modern embedded processors. This does not bode well for the quality of the code generated. One more reason to stick with what has worked for more than a decade: SAS/C 6.59.

Building an '060 version probably doesn't hurt, though. If it's that what convinces the curious to become customers, who am I to doubt the wisdom in it?
 

Offline magnetic

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 10:28:30 AM »
To OP
Hey this is really interesting news and a feat to get it so close to a potential release! This should have been done 4+ yrs ago imho.. Well i'm sure the Amiga community would embrace it and there naturally will be sales. Optimized versions for OS4 and Morphos would be nice and a gui is a must.
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Offline olsen

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2010, 10:44:21 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;575957
To OP
Hey this is really interesting news and a feat to get it so close to a potential release! This should have been done 4+ yrs ago imho.. Well i'm sure the Amiga community would embrace it and there naturally will be sales. Optimized versions for OS4 and Morphos would be nice and a gui is a must.


Roadshow is the TCP/IP stack in OS4. Don't hate me, but contractual obligations prevent me from releasing a MorphOS version, even if I were able to make one. I can make and sell only the 68k version.
 

Offline Vulture

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2010, 10:46:18 AM »
I'm all for it Olaf. I'd happily pay up to 15eu for the download version. Will it support multiple net interfaces like MiamiDX does?
 

Offline olsen

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2010, 10:56:04 AM »
Quote from: Vulture;575961
I'm all for it Olaf. I'd happily pay up to 15eu for the download version. Will it support multiple net interfaces like MiamiDX does?


You can configure as many "physical" interfaces as the hardware and the driver units permit, and you can assign multiple IPv4 addresses to each network interface, too.

The only restrictions regarding the interfaces are in the length of the interface name (15 characters max; this is a limitation of the original 4.4BSD kernel code), and you cannot have two interfaces share the same SANA-II device and unit number.

Network interfaces are configured like "mount files", i.e. you set up the device name, the unit number, and optional IPv4 address, etc. in a file which goes into "DEVS:NetInterfaces". These files are read and processed as part of the S:Startup-Sequence, which means that as soon as you see the Workbench opening, your network connection can be up and running.
 

Offline Vulture

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2010, 11:17:27 AM »
Sounds great, just like the os4 roadshow version works minus the gui. That's cool. I hope you decide to release it, I'll buy it as I can really only speak for myself, but I think you'll get a good amount of sales.
 

Offline ognix

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2010, 11:28:36 AM »
Hi!

If the price (at least for the dowloadable version)  stays between 10 and 15 EUR, I think it would be ok almost for everybody (hoping that price is "resonable" for Olaf as well :)  ).

I think it's very good to offer plain 68k support, even if with some limitations: I remember when I configured AmiTCP on my Amiga 500 with hard disk go to on the Internet in 1995!
It was great somehow!  :D
Many people will appreciate! (A600 users especially)

The only complain is, of course, the lack of GUI: but if config files are plain ASCII or in a documented format, I think someone will provide a free option in the future.

Thanks for your work, Olaf!
 

Offline jj

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2010, 11:38:18 AM »
Why would need it for MorphOS anyway, we have already got a stack
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Offline utri007

Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2010, 11:47:44 AM »
I would buy it IF I can keep it running while playing whdload games
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Offline Vulture

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2010, 11:52:29 AM »
@utri007

good thought! How about it Olaf? Is it something you can do about it or is it something the whdload developers should fix?
 

Offline Golem!dk

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2010, 12:08:42 PM »
For a download version I think 15 EUR would be reasonable, add a bit to that if someone prefers a CD.
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Offline Fab

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Re: Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!
« Reply #29 from previous page: August 24, 2010, 12:12:43 PM »
@olsen

I believe roadshow (at least for OS4) got rid of the following two limitations of other amiga TCP stacks:
- bsdsocketbase couldn't be shared, and bsdsocket.library had to be opened in each process.
- sockets couldn't be shared across threads.

First, is it right?
Second, as I have no idea if it also needs special support on the OS side itself, would the 68k version of roadshow also provide this?