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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« on: March 02, 2012, 03:53:16 PM »
Quote from: Linde;682152
How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers.
This thing requires more than just the Pi.  When you add up the other crap you'll need to use it, is it really that great?

If they have an HDMI capable display and no personal computer, their family needs to rethink priorities and get them into technology instead of HD television.

Plus once its all setup, you have a goony little board with no case (or a case when they have them), with wires on all sides.  Great for hamfisted kids to sit near and use.  

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.  

I picture cake frosting and crap spilled on these.  Kids are clumsy and sloppy.   Slap them in front of some hulking PC case.  It's safer.


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Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.
I'm sorry, how are you restricted on a personal computer when it comes to programming?  If you've got Linux (free), a keyboard, and at least 1 finger, you aren't restricted.  Hell you don't even need fingers really.  Toes are fine.

This thing is more restricting than a personal computer.  It supports what, Perl, Python, C, and BBC BASIC?  No C++? No C#?  No Java?  THAT SOUNDS RESTRICTING.

They'd be better off sticking these kids on Linux boxes with endless possibilities.  



Quote from: Tripitaka;682156
One word for you on that score: Ergonomics!
I for one would not be happy with my kids using a netbook for hours.

Meanwhile they're probably slumped over coloring or playing handheld games, or slouched down so far in their seats they might as well be laying down. :)

and who's to say these things are going to be ergonomical?  It's all up to the end user's setup.

What if this things on a floor with a keyboard (either on the floor or in their lap), and then it's wired to a TV that forces the kid to sit and stare straight up like its the front row of a movie theatre?

Plus, you can be ergonomical with a netbook (unless you're some 350+ pound blob with poor posture and no desk room).

Quote from: commodorejohn;682160
Feh.

If you can't do it on 700MHz and 256MB of RAM, it isn't worth doing.

if you can't do it in assembly, it isn't worth doing.


now , really, its 2012.  This kind of thinking is just stupid.  Stop being stupid and get with the times.
 

I think this thing's called the Pi because its a 3.14/10
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 03:55:33 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 04:48:18 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682170
Python is hardly assembler. Neither is Java, C, or Ruby. RTFA before you jump off the deep end.
I was quoting another age-old programming quote (If you can't do it in assembly it isn't worth doing) to go with the ARM/256 RAM quote, and then moving onto a real point.  The two are not related as indicated by the "now, really," and the "get with the times".

I can tell you're eager to wave your "huruhrur I'm a CS major" card around.  Stop.  

Quote from: Linde;682169
Who said you need a HDMI capable display?
Anyone who doesn't want to use a composite output for a computer?  Ever try programming on a standard def tv?  Screw ergonomics, these kids will be blind by the age of 12.   HDMI (crisp visuals) or jank ass composite (blurrylolol!).  HMMMMM.  Tough choice.

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Good point, though at $35 it's not a great loss for the school.
When enough of them get broke that they could've just bought some more versatile computers...

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I don't think what I was trying to say came through to you! What I am saying is that while most kids have ACCESS to a computer, quite a few don't have their own. I don't know, but libraries, parents and whatever are usually pretty restrictive in what they allow you to do with computers. I'm not sure that poor John Doe's Microsoft-Office-and-youtube dad will be happy if his starts mucking about with installing compiler environments, and I'm quite sure that he won't be happy to have his computer occupied all day.
Parents are retarded.  So the answer is to give kids crippled machines?  Cool!    

It will be like taking Timmy off his Ninja Turtles huffy complete with training wheels, slapping him on a Kawasaki Crotch Rocket, and watching him slam into a wall, full tilt.  Blood everywhere.  Teeth removed, bones broken.

Schools can provide programming computers.  Parents who aren't stuck in the 1940s can provide real computers.  

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No C++, no Java and no C#? Where did you get that idea? I'm getting more and more confident in the fact that you have no idea of what you are talking about. It's a Linux system, not some sort of sandboxed toy OS.
From Wikipedia: This board is intended to run operating systems based on the Linux kernel, including, but not exclusive to Linux[2] and to support the Python programming language,[11][12] BBC BASIC,[13] C[11] and Perl.[11]

So, no, I am not clueless.  Just reading the information I see.  The thing comes with Kids Ruby, Scratch, and BASIC , I think?

Can anyone confirm otherwise that this thing supports C++ and C#?  I sure doubt it supports C# in any good form.

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Yes, they should give Linux boxes to all k... wait, isn't this what the Raspberry Pi is? Are you that clueless or are you leaving out some aspect of your argument that gives it some sense?
This thing is far from being a fullblown linux box.   Linux based != Linux.  It's got some hacked up Linux based OS running off an SD card.  It ain't like you're going to be able to hit up the repo browser and grab tons of packages to install.

Are you sure you aren't the clueless one?



If I wanted a kid to get excited about programming, I'd sit him down in front of a Linux machine with some Galaga clone in C, and show him how that works.  

Games are how you get kids excited.  Not goony little boxes that make Amigafans hard in the pants.

This thing has a long way to go before it would be useful in my book.  I'd rather spend the extra money on a real computer for a kid, so he/she can learn more than just programming.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 04:55:33 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 04:58:16 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682188
Holy crap, you are an idiot.

awww why is that Bilgey.

Is it because I don't take your penis waving CS department nonsense as fact/law?  The fact that you condense things into whaargarbl means to me that you are too stupid to come up with any kind of reply.


and John, what you're saying is we should force kids to learn assembly.  I agree.

Except, we'd have like 3 successful students out of 200.

At least you can DVI
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 05:02:38 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;682192
OK, so I just looked on ebay and found an HDMI to VGA lead, a 15" TFT monitor, keyboard and mouse all on buy it now for a grand total of £18. With the Pi that's £40 total and all I need is a case. Oh look, this external floppy case in my cupboard is big enough, a little hacking and I'm done...

..as for kids being messy, pah! My kids have never spilt anything on my PC stuff. I have and my cat is a menace, but the kids, never. If it's an issue, mount the Pi on the wall and get a waterproof keyboard, job done.

what about shipping?

And for that price I can craigslist a real computer with better specs and pick it up locally.

just because your kids aren't clumsy dip****s doesn't mean others aren't, anyway.


and there will be at least one fat kid that tries to eat it when you tell him the name of the machine.

HUHUH I LIKE PIEEE!
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 05:22:42 PM »
Who's calling who names now?  I called someone stupid, but mostly in jest.  I hope commodorejohn realized that.

John, I actually think kids should learn assembly and hexadecimal before they become rebellious jackoffs that get too fixated on Java to ever learn anything useful.   :)



Quote from: Tripitaka;682196
That included shipping! Granted the TFT was a local pick up.
Not bad.   But that's still like 130 USD, which could buy a pretty nice PC off craigslist...

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Why so little faith in children?
Because they're learning.  This usually involves breaking stuff and causing problems because they don't know any better.


Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682197
Nobody was waving any CS penis around as fact/law - that was you. Mentioning that my CS department would be willing to lab fee a 35 dollar computer is hardly pointing out that I am some super geek whom all words should be obeyed. I did condense your drivel to that, because it is drivel. You aren't making any salient point, you are just attacking people personally, so I returned the sentiment.
It's drivel because you say so.  Not because it is.  I've backed my statements on the Pi up with information found on the Pi's site, and other sites.  

If you can't comprehend what I have said enough to make counterpoints, then maybe you should learn how to read and try again.  Dismissing everything as drivel/whraaaarharbarbarbaral (that picture is hilarious) that disagrees with what you say, means you suck at arguing/debating and should kindly leave the internet until you learn how to play.

and if you can't handle it because it's not written like some frikkin thesis, boo hoo, it's the internet, not the knowledge olympics.

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Seriously, what is your problem?
Currently?  You! :D





That RPi link from Trip up there is interesting.  I wonder why they don't state more of that elsewhere to remove any doubt.  Looks like Wikipedia needs their **** updated.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 05:27:12 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 06:20:44 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;682204
40.00 GBP = 63.4156 USD at current exchange rate
I thought you said 80GBP, lol.  Are you sure you said 40?  50$ can get a decent computer still, I bet!  

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Crippled in what sense?
I dunno, it's a tiny little goonbox with crapass specs.  That's crippled in my book.  

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Yes, you make a very VALID and INTERESTING point, idiot.
Whoaaa no name calling dude, people will get angry! Easy.  There are crybabies afoot.

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Whether you think it's ridiculous or not, the problem exists and isn't going to solve itself.
Right.  However, I think there are better solutions.  Ignorant parents suck.  Especially since most parents suck at computers and screw them up (and then blame the kid who barely uses it)


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It supports C++ via the GNU toolchain like any linux system. C# in "any good form?" How about a full language implementation? It's called Mono. You have no clue about Linux, but you sure know how to paint yourself into a corner.
Please, lets drop the condescending HURHUR you dunno nothin' crap.  It's getting none of us anywhere.

I use linux daily (Zenwalk and Fedora).  I've even got a frigging Minix install still.  Mono blows.  The good form of C# is all the M$ related nonsense.

Plus this *is* all Linux stuff.  Linux is not really user friendly, especially to kids who generally have short attention spans and are impatient.

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Again, you are wading through things you don't understand. Since when is Fedora a "hacked up" Linux based OS? There is no "true" linux OS; everything is Linux *based* as Linux is not an operating system in itself. Fedora is a full-blown Linux distribution in every valid sense of the word, though. It's customizable and open down to rewriting and recompiling the kernel if you wish.
I was under the impression these things came with goofy little dumbed down Linux OS's that aren't exactly full of all the features you'd want, out of box. I don't expect a little kid to be savvy enough to start adding things he needs/wants to one of these.  Nor do I expect most staff at a school.   I drew this conclusion from reading the wikipedia entry AND the RPi wiki.  It sounds like they've got Linux going on it, but it isn't full-blown.  As expected from some crap running off an SD card.

But, what you are saying then is, these can run the same full blown Fedora install that I have installed right here?  With all the fixins?  

and still, it's a fairly low powered machine.  I sure hope the thing is snappy.  I remember putting Fedora on a 1ghz 256mb machine, and even with XFCE, the thing was pretty damn sluggish.

Everyone is approaching this from a seasoned developer standpoint.  Try putting yourself in a clueless little kids shoes.  These aren't the PROGRAMMING YOUR COMPUTER IN BASIC days where a happy little computer cartoon on the cover tells you all about how to PEEK and POKE and make pacman in a weekend.

This is a cluster****.  It's modern computing.  

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Yes, I am pretty sure. I use both ARM and x86 based linux distributions every day, and since you are asking I might as well mention that I am a professional C programmer. I do know a thing or two about both Linux and programming.
Me too.  I also program in asm.  and C++ and C# (though C# is pretty annoying.)  




Now, onto Mr. Tons of Fun.

Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682207
how was he supposed to realize that, exactly? maybe throw a few more smileys at the end like Franko used to.
I miss franko.  He understands how2forum.

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there ya go! smilies make any asinine statement better!
What's wrong with teaching kids assembly and hex?  It doesn't seem that farfetched.  If they can count in base 10, they can count in base 16.  Christ, the kids are stupid, but they aren't that stupid!

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You're absolutely right - those british kids should be on the cragslist buying used computers with more oomph and practicality.
Yeah they should be buying these off the internet with their parents bank information! ;3   Parents can go nab used computers for their kids and stop holding them back from the modern world.  We don't need some company to develop some little machine to open parents up to the idea of letting little Timmy use the computer.  

Who's to say parents will even bite at this?  Will it be up to the schools to buy the stuff ?  If so, why don't THEY just get real computers too.

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No, you haven't. You have been ranting about how stupid the raspberry pi is and how stupid little british children are and berating your fellow board members as stupid.
Who said anything about little british kids?  All little kids are stupid.  They're kids.  It's how it works. Only a kid is stupid enough to put a fork in a wall outlet or to put a pet turtle in his mouth and choke and die.

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So, until you decide to actually educate yourself on what the Raspberri Pi is, instead of spreading false information about its cost and its capabilities, or until you actually PROVE what you are saying with actual links, facts, etc.. I am going to stick by my assertion that you are nothing but an idiot with no knowledge concerning the topic at hand.
I'll admit 90% of this has been bored trolling and half cocked googling.  It's friday, sucka.  Though, I did paste what I grabbed off Wikipedia, but you condensed it down to whaargarbl because you're boring.

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When we want to know all about crappy PC Engine ports or god awful homebrew games like Atlantean, we'll be the first in line to hear what you have to say.
Whoaaa now.  That was simply uncalled for.  I prefer you call them ****ty, and ****ing awful.  Don't bring god into this. He didn't do anything to you.  Or maybe he did. I don't know.  

Besides, people like my games. Play them before you act like a polesmoker.

Or, get better insults.

However, I am touched that you at least clicked my link and cared enough to research your prey.  =3 *hug*

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Until then, go finish your thesis, drink a coffee, and pound sand.
Getting close, coffee sucks, and I prefer pounding my wang. Or your mom.



Quote from: koaftder;682208
Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of  time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the  ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out  of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids  aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.
True.  Most K-12 teachers don't know **** about computers or programming.

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Programming itself isn't all that particularly useful of a skill for the  vast majority of people and society isn't suffering from a lack of  computer programmers. The raspberry pi is a cool toy for geeks but I  think it's usefulness in an educational setting for k-12 is massively  overblown.

I do notice that most people getting erect over this are probably planning to keep the thing to play with themselves.  While playing with themselves maybe.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:23:30 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 06:26:11 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682211
You are possibly right about the educational usefulness in a K-12 setting.

My highschool dropped C++ in favor of VB6 for classes because they found that all the students couldn't comprehend anything and would rather draw forms and buttons and click things to make happy faces appear.

Older people I know had similar things happen.  Some schools drop programming altogether.  

My highschool is rated one of the top ones in the area, so, that aint a good sign

Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682212
You're still an idiot.

Also, tell my mom hi, and I'm not calling you dad no matter what she says.

If you can't be bothered to read anything, don't bother replying.  You flail  your penis around pissing and moaning about not providing facts or  whatever it is you're doing, whining about berating people, all the  while flinging insults, but this is the second time now that you've been  all tl;dr.

learn how to internet.  What the hell are they putting in the water in Dundee?

You're the worst troll target ever.  The troll-targets even troll you.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:29:05 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 06:32:26 PM »
aw look the Oregon Trail brigade is playing together! ;3

I wonder how long it will take for Bulgey to realize I've been , uh how is it the Brits put it?

taking the piss?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:33:58 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 06:34:49 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682218
Well, that is too bad...whoa!:
You are obsessed with penis!

I know man, I can't quit you!

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And just when I thought you had calmed down and taken your ritalin...

I took ritalout, dude.
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 06:37:49 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682220
Did you not fully read the tl/dr response?

I admit it took a few posts.  Cut me some slack, I multitask like a rhino ****ing a volkswagen.

no, it was tl;dr.


Do asians say tr;dl?
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 09:49:13 PM »
My school taught me VB.

After I made Pong in class, the teacher gave me an A and said do whatever, because I'd already passed the class.

It still a neat class, I just wish it wasn't VB.

There was alot of logic/problem solving, but the teacher was an actual programmer.  She knew C, BASIC, Fortran, and all the good stuff.
I am a negative, rude, prick.  


"Aetherbyte: My fledgling game studio!":  << Probably not coming to an Amiga near you because you all suck! :roflmao: