MorphOS 3.0 (3.1, etc) for PPC, then x64/ARM!

[nicholas]

I wish they'd port it to one of the PPC emulators like QEMU or PearPC.

[HenryCase]

I wish they'd port it to one of the PPC emulators like QEMU or PearPC.

They already did (there's screenshots on the Internet of MOS running in QEMU, that one of the dev team made). However, they've stated it won't be released in this format, it was just a proof of concept.

[nicholas]

They already did (there's screenshots on the Internet of MOS running in QEMU, that one of the dev team made). However, they've stated it won't be released in this format, it was just a proof of concept.

That's a shame  I reckon a JIT emulation running on a 4GHz beast would be quite usable if Apple's Rosetta is anything to go by.

[amigadave]

Much as I like MorphOS, the architecture "announcement" seems more like "thinking about thinking about a new architecture". I wouldn't read much into it at this point - I expect it will be be at least 5 years before we see anything tangible on that front.

Looking forward to 3.x, though

I think 5 years is a bit pessimistic.  My guess would be more like 2 to 3 years before the Team is finished with Apple PPC hardware and has moved on to something else.

If all goes well, I would not be surprised if G5 support is released some time toward the end of 2012.  Of course that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

Edit:  Now that it is nearing the end of the 3rd quarter of 2012, I will have to revise my wishful thinking and say that I hope for G5 support in MorphOS3.x to happen some time before the end of 2014, but if we are lucky, it will be before the end of 2013 instead.

[zylesea]

Well, take it for what it is: Before there was no plan communicated at all post PPC. Now there is. Before, some of us had a feeling that once the Mac's have been fully exploited, the MorphOS saga would end. Now it's confirmed that it won't, MorphOS will continue, even though PPC won't!

Well, I think its more like f. ex. Itix quite repeatedly said: It's a thing of motivation/situation when it's due. If the ppc Mac field is covered and the team feels like continuing the work, well, what's to do then? Looking for a new target of course. But if they then decide the effort is bigger than the benefit/joy/fun/motivation then it stops there. If in a few years powerful and suited ppc hardware pops out of the nowhere, then that's of course another option.
I think the ideal long term plan is rather as I outlined it at http://via.i-networx.de/q86.htm - thing is: it requires a helluvalot work. And more important to judge this kind of announcement from a user's POV: Don't fall for pipedreams, use what's available today.
Or even shorter: "Live every day as if it were your last day"

[Fab]

thing is: it requires a helluvalot work. And more important to judge this kind of announcement from a user's POV: Don't fall for pipedreams, use what's available today.
Or even shorter: "Live every day as if it were your last day"

Yes, you should consider it that way... Carpe diem.
What I added in this last slide of the presentation was merely a list of the potential options when/if we're done with PPC, because i knew the question would come. There was actually some thoughts and preliminary work in that regard, but that's it. Nothing to be expected before quite a long time in any case.

[takemehomegrandma]

Well, I think its more like f. ex. Itix quite repeatedly said: It's a thing of motivation/situation when it's due. If the ppc Mac field is covered and the team feels like continuing the work, well, what's to do then? Looking for a new target of course.

I don't see this as some vague comment from the past. I see this as a pronounced commitment, a current mission statement. The day Itix spoke of (never saw that comment though, but I'll take your word for it) has kind of come, and a decision is made and is now communicated. This wasn't the case before. They are about to support the Powerbook PPC laptop. Comments I have seen rather recently makes me believe they won't really go after the G5, but we'll see about that. Anyway, besides the added HW support, they obviously have a list of things they want to add to MorphOS during the upcoming series of 3.x releases during the coming few years. And it's a very nice, ambitious and impressive list, and I'm sure they'll come up with even more stuff along the road! After that (or maybe even in parallel, or maybe someone already begun some time ago) they'll start working on the 64-bit part, etc, etc and prepare the migration to a new architecture.

If in a few years powerful and suited ppc hardware pops out of the nowhere

Now *that* is a serious pipe dream, hehe! :p

And more important to judge this kind of announcement from a user's POV: Don't fall for pipedreams, use what's available today. Or even shorter: "Live every day as if it were your last day"

Of course, and nobody said otherwise. The MorphOS 3.x branch will be a killer. Everything won't come in the 3.0 release, it's obvious that they have much planned for upcoming releases as well. So like I said earlier, for the immediate future there will be MorphOS 3.0. For a little more intermediate future, there will be 3.1, 3.2, ..., ..., etc. And in a longer term future (might not actually be that far away in an "Amiga time perspective", we'll see), there will be an "Apple leap" to MorphOS 4.0 (or whatever) on x64 and/or ARM, with 64-bit support, maybe SMP, MP etc in a way that wasn't possible before. A clear and communicated road map for the short-, mid-, and long-term future, for the first time (as far as I remember)! This made at least me look at MorphOS's future with a much more positive eyes!

[XDelusion]

- Faster 3D Drivers (VBO), more complete support r300 (Radeon 9500 to 9800);


So does that mean that only those cards will see a performance boost and 3D on cards such as the 9200 will remain the same?

[takemehomegrandma]

There was actually some thoughts and preliminary work in that regard, but that's it.

I somehow had a feeling about this!

Nothing to be expected before quite a long time in any case.

I don't think anyone really does, of course it's the 3.x everyone is waiting for, and this branch seems to be here for a while, and it obviously will take some time to incorporate what you seem to have planned for it.

But the point is that it's very nice to see that you envision a long-term future for MorphOS beyond what Mac PPC HW can bring, that it won't end with this!

[Tripitaka]

MOS on ARM has promise. I'm interested to see how far up and down the scale of ARM devices will be supported.
Well, one to watch anyway.

Of course, there is no point planning beyond 2012 as the dread lord Cthulhu will rise from the depths and eat our souls next year, as every good cultist knows.

[takemehomegrandma]

- Faster 3D Drivers (VBO), more complete support r300 (Radeon 9500 to 9800);

So does that mean that only those cards will see a performance boost and 3D on cards such as the 9200 will remain the same?

r300 3D won't be in the 3.0 release (from what was said on morphzone.org), but will come in later OS release.

The improved 3D in MorphOS will benefit current supported cards. And AFAIK, it will be a *major* boost!

[Iggy]

From what I've heard, R200 acceleration improvements will be significant.
And 3D drivers, while not ready for 3.0, are being developed.
 
As to a shift from PPCs, "when/if we're done with PPC" is pretty telling.
I'm not ready for this move myself, and like David, I would love to see G5 support.

[XDelusion]

r300 3D won't be in the 3.0 release (from what was said on morphzone.org), but will come in later OS release.

The improved 3D in MorphOS will benefit current supported cards. And AFAIK, it will be a *major* boost!

Good to know!!!!

[Senex]

There was actually some thoughts and preliminary work in that regard, but that's it. Nothing to be expected before quite a long time in any case.

While the reasons are perfectly understood, it's yet a pity that plans are not more complete at this point of time. Given the compatibility break AROS is facing anyway shortly (ABI V1), it would have been nice if both developer teams would have defined some joint interface sets for architecture X for maximum mutual compatibility on that CPU.

This way, availability of the most rare good for all Amiga operating systems, actual applications, wouldn't have been limited more than necessary (barring extensions existing for just one of the systems anyway).

[takemehomegrandma]

r300 3D won't be in the 3.0 release (from what was said on morphzone.org), but will come in later OS release.

The improved 3D in MorphOS will benefit current supported cards. And AFAIK, it will be a *major* boost!

Good to know!!!!

This is a quote from a post made on morphzone.org exactly a year ago (today):

"Then we were shown the updated 3D drivers, reaching 140fps in Quake III running at 800x600 on an humble Mac mini. That's roughly 50% better than last year, that in turn was already 100% faster than what we have in the public version of MorphOS"

So 2 years ago they showed 3D drivers that was 100% faster than what's in current public release, one year ago they showed drivers that was additionally 50% faster. That's 200% increase right there! Sounds good to mee!

I don't know if this relies on "VBO", that is scheduled for a MorphOS 3.1 or later release...

3D drivers faster, VBO, support r300 (Radeon 9500 to 9800). (From the presentation. Green = planned for 3.0, Orange = planned for later 3.x release)

...or if VBO will mean *additional* improvements on top of this, when its released?

[vox]

There are interesting MorphOS news about the future coming from "Alchimie 111111"!
So what we have here, if all this is translated/relayed correctly, is *very* important news about the MorphOS future!

1) Immediate Future (a month or a few from today): MorphOS 3.0 will be released. This seems to become the biggest and most important MorphOS update ever? It will be a free upgrade for currently registered MorphOS users. It will introduce support for Powerbook laptops, and many other cool things that has been hinted above in this post, and in previous posts on various forums. License Fee may be lowered for some HW.

2) Intermediate Future (up to a few years after MorphOS 3.0): MorphOS 3.1, 3.2, ..., ..., etc, will be released, introducing stuff that didn't make it for MorphOS 3.0. The OS will continued to be developed on the PPC platform, really making the most out of it. Maybe they will support G5 Mac's, but that's far from a given, and some posts I have seen suggests otherwise. We will see.

3) Long Term Future (a few years from now): MorphOS has evolved as an OS on the PPC architecture since the beginning, and it has served its purpose. It will continue to evolve here for some time still with the 3.x branch. However, the PPC Platform for desktop and laptop systems is dead. It has been so since 2007. But the statement is now that MorphOS will *not* roll over and die because of this! No, when MorphOS has made the most out of the current PPC hardware, when it has supported all HW considered worth supporting, it *WILL* migrate to a new, modern architecture that has a pulse! This also means improvements in many other ways (64-bit, perhaps they will look at improving the Q-box again, etc).

So with this, there seems to be a clear path into the future! The question marks that many have felt (given the PPC situation) is now straightened out to exclamation marks! MorphOS will continue to live on, it will continue to evolve, even when the current HW architecture is not!

This is very good news!

Great summary and plan, quite realistic and step by step. Something we AmigaOS4 users could only wish for :-)

Seems I might be buying MorphOS 4 one day :-)