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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: amigakit on October 20, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
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News from Amiwest
New A-EON Music Card for Classic Amigas:
http://www.a-eon.com/?page=aw2013
A-EON Technology
NEWS RELEASE
Prisma Megamix:
Multi format DSP music card for your classic Amiga
AmiWest 2013 18th October 2013
In its prime, the sound quality delivered by the Amiga's on-board Paula chip was pretty special. Its 4 channel stereo 8-bit audio output with frequencies up to 28 kHz when using 15 kHz screen modes, or up to 56 kHz with higher horizontal frequency screen modes was so far in advance of the IBM PC's monotone beep, which was virtually mute by comparison. The Amiga's audio was further augmented by a whole host of digital sound cards and samplers supplied by numerous hardware manufacturers. Sadly those days are long gone. However, that is all about to change. A-EON Technology is proud to announce Prisma Megamix, a modern next- generation soundcard for Classic Amiga computers. The Prisma Megamix is a dual-use card which can be connected to either the Zorro II or a Clockport and incor- porates a VS1063 DSP chip which can play and encode MP2, MP3, WMA, OGG, LC-AAC, HE-AAC, FLAC, IMA, WAV PCM and many other sound formats making it ideal for hi-fi audio playback and stream- ing applications. It achieves this with very little CPU overhead enabling full 200Kbps stereo playback on a standard 68K Zorro II Amiga while still allowing good multitasking. With Prisma Megamix, an Amiga 2000, 3000, 4000 or A1200 can mix MP3 streams and encode/decode them in real time without burdening the CPU. The MP3 sound processor is fully handled by CPLD and is transparent to the software. Audio data transfers are streamed at 16-bit (Zorro II) or 8-bit (Clockport), and bit banging is not required for SPI accesses to the MP3 sound processor. Mixing inputs for Paula, genuine sound and line in are provided, as well as earphone outputs and line outs. In Zorro II equipped Amigas, the Prisma's Clockport can be used for add-ons and multiple cards can also be installed allowing audio enthusiasts.
Prisma Megamix prototype to mix their tracks at full quality. Special drivers are being written for AmigaOS 3.x and 4.x systems and a Xorro PCI-E version is also planned for A-EON Technology's Next-Generation AmigaONE systems. Prisma Megamix installed in A4000.
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Give your Amiga its voice!
%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!65532;Note: Prisma Megamix can be operated from the CLI or its own GUI and will run on any Classic 68K Zorro II equipped Amiga. Clockport support is being added. AmigaOS 3.0 or above is recommended, although AmigaOS 2.0 is also supported.
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COOL!!
AHI??
How much?? or at least ball park price.
When it's available?
Thanks
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Well hot damn! Depending on how the software support works out (mpeg.device compatible decoding API?) this might replace my Delfina...
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Interesting. I hope they add Toccata emulation, so we can use it under MovieShop.
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News from Amiwest
New A-EON Sound Card for Classic Amigas:
http://www.a-eon.com/?page=aw2013
Nice news for Classic lovers, but there are bigger news :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAq23xRiISI
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Any news on what Steven Solie's speech covered?
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What kind of performance would I have using this on the A1200 clock port? Seems like a cool card, I'm just speaking as the owner of a Zorro-less machine.
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Nice news!
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A 7MHz A1500 can throw data across the bus fast enough to keep it fed with 320Kbps mp3 data, so I reckon a 68020 over the clockport should be similar.
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Nice news for Classic lovers, but there are bigger news :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAq23xRiISI
"Bigger" is subjective, I'd wager that more Prisma soundcards get sold than all OS4 motherboards combined.
@Matthew,
Any hint on a rough price for one of these babies?
@Ian
Will the decoding be compatible with already existing software (mpeg.device etc) and/or will it come with datatypes for the formats it supports?
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It's something we're looking into, definitely. I've not looked at the mpeg library for a while so can't remember the API.. but it would be nice to be widely supported by existing software as well as the new programs!
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great news! now I don't have to worry about replacing my audio caps for a 2nd time:)
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It's something we're looking into, definitely. I've not looked at the mpeg library for a while so can't remember the API.. but it would be nice to be widely supported by existing software as well as the new programs!
delfinampeg.device is what I currently use - source code is available if you need some reference material: http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/dmdev
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It's something we're looking into, definitely. I've not looked at the mpeg library for a while so can't remember the API.. but it would be nice to be widely supported by existing software as well as the new programs!
Sounds great, will hardware documentation be available for 3rd party developers?
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What kind of performance would I have using this on the A1200 clock port? Seems like a cool card, I'm just speaking as the owner of a Zorro-less machine.
From the press release it sounds like it will only do 8-bit when connected via the clock port.
This is a great product. Sorely needed by the Amiga community.
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"Bigger" is subjective, I'd wager that more Prisma soundcards get sold than all OS4 motherboards combined.
Its good AEON have a product for Classic lovers, maybe it will bring more love back to the fact Trevor is doing serious things and AmigaOS software and hardware development has been quite advanced since he appeared.
On the side note, I doubt there will be so many Zorro sound cards produced as there were few hundred OS4 mobos so far. You are way more optimistic how many people have big old Classics like 2000/3000/4000 up and working and want to invest in hardware for it.
But may it sell every one made,as for any AEON product :hammer:
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From the press release it sounds like it will only do 8-bit when connected via the clock port.
The data bus on the clock port is 8-bit, but the card does the dirty work decoding the data - and however you're sending your OGG Vorbis file or MP3 of whatever (or even WAV) it makes no difference to the result as the supplied data is the same - it just takes twice as many writes across the bus (as it's 8 bits at a time instead of 16).
@nicholas
Access is done via a library but I'm not sure of how open it's going to be (though I'm making it as easy to use as possible). That's an AmigaKit decision....
@Matt_H
Thanks, I'll take a look!
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From the press release it sounds like it will only do 8-bit when connected via the clock port.
8bit data transfers between CPU and sound processor, due to nature of clockport.
The sound processor works at same bit rates as in Zorro operation.
Michael
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New hardware for real amigas are always welcome, but i dont see the point of a soundcard at this times... and will see the prices.
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New hardware for real amigas are always welcome, but i dont see the point of a soundcard at this times... and will see the prices.
Actually what I really wanted to see is a brand new 68k CPU upgrade. If physically possible and could be done to upgrade the CPU speed from 50 Mhz and even the avoided overclocked 100 Mhz to something like real 100 Mhz to 200 Mhz. If 68k can go as fast as 500 Mhz...it would be an awesome welcome....this way with such speed it will give a decent freedom to implement more complex and CPU consuming software and/or applications.
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aeon funding it sounds like an attempt to win the fans of genuine Amigas over, however depending on pricing it may be an interesting item at least for some. and as its pretty obvious there are still quantities more operational Amigas out there than all the os4 Hardware, it might sell well.
edit: i see it a little half hearted though. if they are about to drawn million dollars in hardware architecture for an os that is not actively developed, they did better to sponsor amiga fpga development instead of such high specialized gadgets.
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If we give them some Classic Amiga peripheral sales that they can wrap their head around, they may consider doing more for us.
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If we give them some Classic Amiga peripheral sales that they can wrap their head around, they may consider doing more for us.
Yes that's correct, at least they are doing something for us Classic users and should be thanked for the effort.
I assume AmigaKit had rather a strong influence on this project ;)
Hopefully it will be a successful project and they'll produce some new bits in the future.
Not sure exactly how this would fit inside an A1200 desktop, I guess big box Amiga's are the target audience.
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Yes that's correct, at least they are doing something for us Classic users and should be thanked for the effort.
I assume AmigaKit had rather a strong influence on this project ;)
Hopefully it will be a successful project and they'll produce some new bits in the future.
Not sure exactly how this would fit inside an A1200 desktop, I guess big box Amiga's are the target audience.
Good because I am ordering an A4000D and will find an accelerator to turn it into a 68060 running at 100 Mhz speed. This card will be nice to have inside the machine.
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Here's the details of the audio processor used: http://www.vlsi.fi/en/products/vs1063.html
I wonder if it will be possible to use this to encode to MP3 the audio coming from Paula, as encoding is one of its major features.
The data transfer width (16 for Zorro, 8 for clockport) will merely affect the max bitrate that can be fed into the device. I have no idea what the A1200 clockport can achieve, bandwidth-wise (1.75MB/s is suggested at http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24079 - that's enough for several MP3 streams).
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Actually what I really wanted to see is a brand new 68k CPU upgrade. If physically possible and could be done to upgrade the CPU speed from 50 Mhz and even the avoided overclocked 100 Mhz to something like real 100 Mhz to 200 Mhz. If 68k can go as fast as 500 Mhz...it would be an awesome welcome....this way with such speed it will give a decent freedom to implement more complex and CPU consuming software and/or applications.
It's not going to happen - getting ASICs fabbed these days isn't cheap if you want 500MHz CPUs. There are ASIC sharing companies, where multiple designs are taped out at the same time onto the same masks, maybe that would be an option.
But before all that, you need a compatible CPU core. TG68 is fine for a low-end core, but would it clock up to 500MHz? There is the Apollo core, but that's very new. Maybe in a couple of years there will be FPGAs with it in that aren't horribly expensive, with ~100MHz cores.
And I guess you could then have a very fast clockport to go with it!
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Michael
We are so happy to have you designing new classic hardware for us THANK YOU AMIGA HERO.
And thanks AEON classic projects are an exciting addition to the NG hardware and can only help both markets.
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If we give them some Classic Amiga peripheral sales that they can wrap their head around, they may consider doing more for us.
dont fall for it. its them they want to wrapo our head around not the opposite;) said that buy the card if it suits you, its a welcome development, but dont expect any political consequences.
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It's not going to happen - getting ASICs fabbed these days isn't cheap if you want 500MHz CPUs.
when you are starting to shelve out millions to make ppc a valid desktop architecture again you might as well build 68k asic ;P..
But before all that, you need a compatible CPU core. TG68 is fine for a low-end core, but would it clock up to 500MHz? There is the Apollo core, but that's very new. Maybe in a couple of years there will be FPGAs with it in that aren't horribly expensive, with ~100MHz cores.
And I guess you could then have a very fast clockport to go with it!
lets see what that apollo actually is when majsta releases his new firmwaare.
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OMG. The suspicion and sarcasm is really quite surprising. Classic hardware for Zorro or clockport is really most welcome. The reason they are making the product is because they have determined there is a market (DEMAND) and a profit (RETURN). This is how the world works.
Where be these enemies? See what scourge is laid upon your hate. How you find a means to kill your joys with love. All are punish'd.
The Sun for sorrow should not show it's head.
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I wonder if it will be possible to use this to encode to MP3 the audio coming from Paula, as encoding is one of its major features.
The data transfer width (16 for Zorro, 8 for clockport) will merely affect the max bitrate that can be fed into the device. I have no idea what the A1200 clockport can achieve, bandwidth-wise (1.75MB/s is suggested at http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24079 - that's enough for several MP3 streams).
I reckon the clockport has enough bandwidth. I'm going to be attempting it fairly soon, but I reckon if a 68000 can pump data fast enough on Z-II, the 68020 on the clockport should cope even with an 8-bit bus. Not sure about a 68000 with a clockport, but there's no harm in trying. :)
As for your first question - the priority of this card is decoding rather than encoding, but yes - the hardware is capable of encoding Paula into OGGs and MP3s and whatevers.
Edit: Incidentally, I think it goes without saying that if the people behind this card (and that includes myself) do well from it, then the chances of future hardware on classic Amigas is much higher than if we do badly.
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Spirantho
I for one am behind the developments and will support future efforts. thanks for your hard work. And thanks to aeon and amigakit.
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New hardware for the aging amiga classics are very welcome :)
I so wish for a new and affordable RTG card.
New soundcard and a new netcard (with USB add on later) that is really great.
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@yssing
Soundcard with usb and ethernet, gfxcard with usb and ethernet... a1200 just have one clockport this is the best solution.
@all
This one at what price? lets make a guess... 200-250€
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...
Not sure exactly how this would fit inside an A1200 desktop, I guess big box Amiga's are the target audience.
Nova, looking at my 1200 desktop I've got space for another clockport expansion to fit nicely next to my Subway USB and have no intentions of big boxing it.
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Nova, looking at my 1200 desktop I've got space for another clockport expansion to fit nicely next to my Subway USB and have no intentions of big boxing it.
There's a clockport on the new soundcard so you could just plug your Subway USB into that. Shouldn't need a clockport expander.
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This one at what price? lets make a guess... 200-250€
We're talking about a $5 (max) audio decoder chip and a (probably cheap) CPLD to interface that chip over I2S to Zorro/Clockport. Admittedly CPLD programming and AmigaOS software drivers will be a disproportionate cost, but €200 is still going to be a bit on the high side, IMO.
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There's a clockport on the new soundcard so you could just plug your Subway USB into that. Shouldn't need a clockport expander.
that's great!
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We're talking about a $5 (max) audio decoder chip and a (probably cheap) CPLD to interface that chip over I2S to Zorro/Clockport. Admittedly CPLD programming and AmigaOS software drivers will be a disproportionate cost, but €200 is still going to be a bit on the high side, IMO.
For fifty quid I'd buy one instantly. Any more and I'd struggle to justify the cost.
I got given an el-cheapo USB soundcard a couple of years ago and thought I might use it with my Deneb when I eventually get around to it.
Not sure if it's compatible mind you so one of these Prisma cards is looking quite desirable, especially as it supports hardware accelerated decoding.
I'm wondering if it comes with a licence from Fraunhofer for the MP3 decoding?
Not that I give two sh1ts either way but there are some on here that will accuse A-EON/AmigaKit of being theives if they don't. ;)
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I'm wondering if it comes with a licence from Fraunhofer for the MP3 decoding?
There's a version of the chip that excludes mp3 capability, which leads me to conclude that the mp3 licensing cost is included in the chip cost - but of course that would be passed onto purchasers.
I agree that $50/£50 would be an upper bound for reasonable cost.
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@nicholas
Everybody should be using OGG Vorbis files anyway. :) Completely free, open, smaller and better sounding. Kind of a win-win-win-win situation, really!
For playing music files this will win hands-down over the Deneb sound card. I have one on my A4000 and although it works it takes a lot of CPU time, even on my CS-PPC 060. The Prisma's only workload is feeding the chip the compressed audio stream.
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There's a version of the chip that excludes mp3 capability, which leads me to conclude that the mp3 licensing cost is included in the chip cost - but of course that would be passed onto purchasers.
I agree that $50/£50 would be an upper bound for reasonable cost.
That's my argument for MPEG playback on Linux. My video card has hardware decoding support so when I bought it it came with a licence to play stuff as far as I'm concerned so I'm not buying a software codec and paying twice for it. :)
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I want several please :)
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@nicholas
Everybody should be using OGG Vorbis files anyway. :) Completely free, open, smaller and better sounding. Kind of a win-win-win-win situation, really!
Yeah I rip most stuff to FLAC or Vorbis. The only MP3's I have are the ones I erm "aquired". ;)
For playing music files this will win hands-down over the Deneb sound card. I have one on my A4000 and although it works it takes a lot of CPU time, even on my CS-PPC 060. The Prisma's only workload is feeding the chip the compressed audio stream.
It sounds really good, I'm just concerned it will cost a fortune and then all the initial stock will get snapped up by hoaders who won't even use it. :/
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Great news.
Hope it offers something beyond what the used market provides.
I recently bought a new X-Surf 100 and I'm having a real challenge to get it to perform faster than the Ariandne it replaced. The Ariandne via nmi gives 155,000 cps and the X-Surf using EasyNet gives 60,000 cps (Using Miami I can get between 160,000 and 200,000).
I already have a Delfina Plus, that only uses 2% cpu to decode, has great sound quality, and is bullet proof in reliability. My 3k multitask without any perceived slowdown now. If this will offer something better, I'll entertain it (I will probably buy if it as least as good as what I have now for my spare desktop, but it would be nice to offer more).
The problem, as has always been in Amiga Land, is software and driver development. Hopefully, they will have a good and well tested solution out of the gate.
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The price hasn't been decided yet, but it won't be ridiculous. Unlikely to be £50, though, I'm afraid, from experience. By the time you've factored in manufacturing of the board, the parts, the transport costs, the software costs, the hardware design costs and of course taxes, and with the fact that this is going to be relatively low numbers in the production run, £50 would leave practically nothing as profit for the company (they have to make some, even Amiga hardware makers have to eat :) ).
What I can say is that we're aiming for a good price for everybody, including the buyer. No-one's going to get massively rich off this one board (and if they are, I want a bigger cut :) )
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Hope it offers something beyond what the used market provides.
I already have a Delfina Plus, that only uses 2% cpu to decode, has great sound quality, and is bullet proof in reliability. My 3k multitask without any perceived slowdown now. If this will offer something better, I'll entertain it (I will probably buy if it as least as good as what I have now for my spare desktop, but it would be nice to offer more).
The Delfina Plus only does MP3 doesn't it? This does OGG Vorbis, WMA, WAV, FLAC and MPEG 2 Layer 3.
The problem, as has always been in Amiga Land, is software and driver development. Hopefully, they will have a good and well tested solution out of the gate.
I'll do my best. :)
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Double post...
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The Delfina Plus only does MP3 doesn't it? This does OGG Vorbis, WMA, WAV, FLAC and MPEG 2 Layer 3.
I'll do my best. :)
I only use it for mp3's and mp2's, so I don't know. Glad yours offers some more options!
I would be happy to put it in my kids system and beta test a card for you:)
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I'd love to buy it for use on my A1200, but I'm already using a Subway USB card attached to the clock port. Would you consider coming out with a run of something like the Quaddddroport (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/quadroport ) so that I can keep both attached to the clock port?
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I'd love to buy it for use on my A1200, but I'm already using a Subway USB card attached to the clock port. Would you consider coming out with a run of something like the Quaddddroport (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/quadroport ) so that I can keep both attached to the clock port?
see post #38;)
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I believe the clock-port on the Prisma is either host or slave, but not both at the same time. That said, it may be possible to do something funky, not sure yet... (but we do need to keep an eye on costs as well)
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Edit: Double-post. Silly forum. First the post disappears completely, then I re-post it and it appears twice.
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The Delfina Plus only does MP3 doesn't it? This does OGG Vorbis, WMA, WAV, FLAC and MPEG 2 Layer 3.
MPEG 2 Layer 3 is often abbreviated MP3. :p
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I believe the clock-port on the Prisma is either host or slave, but not both at the same time. That said, it may be possible to do something funky, not sure yet... (but we do need to keep an eye on costs as well)
work your magic for us Ian:biglaugh: It's not just the money issue but the space issue as well for us desktop case users so PLEASE save us some space and let us have 2 items on the clockport with Prisma:knuddel:
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what the heck is going on with this site??? it's constantly logging me out??
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Cool... so in theory, this could also work with an A600, just so long as it has a clock port too?
If so, I know I'm going to want between 1-4 of them, depending upon the price.
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The Ogg/FLAC decoding would come in very handy for both ScummVM and my SDL Mixer, how do you interface to them, is there going to provide some kind of library?
Also, can this card fit into an A1200 desktop?
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The Ogg/FLAC decoding would come in very handy for both ScummVM and my SDL Mixer, how do you interface to them, is there going to provide some kind of library?
Also, can this card fit into an A1200 desktop?
Are libraries important for Amiga hardware?
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@NovaCoder
Please contact me separately about development opportunities. Ian is currently developing the prisma.library and we would value your feedback at this stage of development.
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@NovaCoder
Please contact me separately about development opportunities. Ian is currently developing the prisma.library and we would value your feedback at this stage of development.
Guys I am practicing as an Amiga classic game developer...I am working my way from AMOS to AmiBlitz and will be releasing games (for free) in aminet all the time. AmigaKit...if I do an excellent job developing high quality games would you consider hiring me as a game/software developer for classic Amiga?
I know nothing of AmigaOS 4.1 but I will do my best to be excellent as a software/game developer for classic Amiga :)
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Always cool with new hardware for the classic Amigas :-)
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@nicholas
Everybody should be using OGG Vorbis files anyway. :) Completely free, open, smaller and better sounding. Kind of a win-win-win-win situation, really!
The problem is that the majority of portable MP3 players don't support OGG Vorbis, but all of them support MP3. This is the main reason why I prefer to use MP3 (freedom of device).
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Don't worry, I was being facetious. I know there's good reasons for using mp3.
Well, one good reason anyway.... The one you said.
Mpeg 2 layer 3 may also be .mp3 but it doesn't mean all mp3 playing devices support it.
If it's all right with Matthew, then anyone wanting software features is free to email me about them, but I can't promise I'll be able to implement them!
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The Ogg/FLAC decoding would come in very handy for both ScummVM and my SDL Mixer, how do you interface to them, is there going to provide some kind of library?
Also, can this card fit into an A1200 desktop?
Dude, I like the way you think!
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After read somethings seems like a MASplayer for clockport.
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After read somethings seems like a MASplayer for clockport.
Imagine a MAS player that provides a click port or can be connected via one.
Then imagine that it can play OGG, FLAC, WMA and WAV.
Then imagine it can encode audio input such as Paula into OGG or MP3 or whatever.
Then you have the Prisma. :)
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Imagine a MAS player that provides a click port or can be connected via one.
Then imagine that it can play OGG, FLAC, WMA and WAV.
Then imagine it can encode audio input such as Paula into OGG or MP3 or whatever.
Then you have the Prisma. :)
What about AHI support?
Are you the guy doing the software library for this device?
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The Ogg/FLAC decoding would come in very handy for both ScummVM and my SDL Mixer, how do you interface to them, is there going to provide some kind of library?
shouldnt it be actually solved via datatypes. in this case accelerated. if it was sdl should use them rather than statically linking to libs to make it more configuration independent.
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What about AHI support?
Are you the guy doing the software library for this device?
Yes, I'm "the guy" :)
Feel free to email me with ideas, suggestions and requests.
AHI is a possibility but not definite yet as the hardware is more geared to decoding than raw playing- but does support raw wav playback.
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@spirantho
But this is only a mp3/ogg/flac... player, not a soundcard. What about the price, over 50€?
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no ahi? :O
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Yes, I'm "the guy" :)
Feel free to email me with ideas, suggestions and requests.
AHI is a possibility but not definite yet as the hardware is more geared to decoding than raw playing- but does support raw wav playback.
If there is no AHI driver I'd have to pass on it i'm afraid. I don't fancy routing Paula's output into this thing and then routing the combined output into a 3rd soundcard that has an AHI driver.
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Yes, I'm "the guy" :)
Feel free to email me with ideas, suggestions and requests.
AHI is a possibility but not definite yet as the hardware is more geared to decoding than raw playing- but does support raw wav playback.
Ok I'll send you an email so we can talk further....
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shouldnt it be actually solved via datatypes. in this case accelerated. if it was sdl should use them rather than statically linking to libs to make it more configuration independent.
Datatypes for all supported audio compression formats + an AHI driver would make it the complete package. Anything less would seem a bit half-arsed.
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AHI is something we're looking at, definitely.
Datatypes aren't possible though, I'm fairly sure. An audio datatype has to convert its audio to an 8svx block of data, which the sound datatype then processes and plays back itself. The Prisma card plays the sound itself, it never converts the data, so there's no data to pass to the audio datatype superclass. I thought of faking the audio by playing the stream and just giving it zeroes to play, but the datatype doesn't have control of its playback once it's returned its data so it'd be a bit useless.
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AHI is something we're looking at, definitely.
Datatypes aren't possible though, I'm fairly sure. An audio datatype has to convert its audio to an 8svx block of data, which the sound datatype then processes and plays back itself. The Prisma card plays the sound itself, it never converts the data, so there's no data to pass to the audio datatype superclass. I thought of faking the audio by playing the stream and just giving it zeroes to play, but the datatype doesn't have control of its playback once it's returned its data so it'd be a bit useless.
You would have to hack it into sound.datatype. But then, almost nothing is really using datatypes for direct audio playback. Even just loading audio files via datatypes is extremely rare.
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That's what I thought. It'd be a lot of work (especially to make sure there were no unwanted repercussions from hacking a major datatype) and I don't think it'd be worth it.
The only real advantage to using a datatype would be to allow programs like Multiview to run it. Datatypes are useful in some apps for importing data, but that's not an option here because there's no data to import (it just gets played directly). APIs like SDL shouldn't be using datatypes anyway unless it's for importing data - it's a rather inefficient way to actually play data, and it offers no control to the calling application.
If I manage to get the AHI sound driver working (it's not retargetable audio, remember - it's actually a stream player) then of course you could use the mp3 datatype to decode/import and then play it through AHI, but I think it'd be rather easier to just use the chip to play the mp3.
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Im interested in a new soundcard, specially as its got hardware MP3 playback but AHI is a must for me else its not really a sound card and more of a MAS player for a Zorro slot and I already have one of those :)
Cool project though and if AHI support is included Ill be ordering one. :)
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so the almost only advantage of this card is that you will be to play your audio collection stored in some compressed format using a dedicated player? at least something like mpga.library should be thought of. or are we facing c64 future wehre everything hast to be statically linked?
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You would have to hack it into sound.datatype. But then, almost nothing is really using datatypes for direct audio playback. Even just loading audio files via datatypes is extremely rare.
The biggest problem with datatypes for this is the fact that they don't really support progressive decoding of stream data. Not sure how the animation.datatype does it, but the rest all seem to rely on decoding the entire stream into whatever format the superclass expects. This simply isn't practical on classic systems when a 5 minute mp3 file would decode into tens of megabytes of audio data.
+1 to the reggae framework.
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so the almost only advantage of this card is that you will be to play your audio collection stored in some compressed format using a dedicated player? at least something like mpga.library should be thought of. or are we facing c64 future wehre everything hast to be statically linked?
The mpega.library is no use here. It is just a decoder that converts mp3 to a raw bitstream. Audio playback is still done in the player application through AHI or direct Paula.
Only sensible solution is writing a new dedicated player. It is not that much work. Real challenge is writing decoders for the DSP on that sound card. But writing some decent GUI and simple playlist system is piece of cake.
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so the almost only advantage of this card is that you will be to play your audio collection stored in some compressed format using a dedicated player? at least something like mpga.library should be thought of. or are we facing c64 future wehre everything hast to be statically linked?
*shudder*
I hate static linking. What do you think I am, a Linux coder? :)
Here's what you currently need to do to play an OGG Vorbis file:
PrismaBase = OpenLibrary( "prisma.library", 0L);
Prisma_Init();
Prisma_PlayFile( "GreatMusic.ogg" );
CloseLibrary( PrismaBase);
There are a few extra parameters to PlayFile if you want to use them (volume, balance, buffersize, task priority), but that's pretty much it.
There's also PlayMemory() which I'm going to implement soon, and it's this that'll hook into AHI and any apps such as SCUMM.
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That looks simple enough, consider my request for datatypes withdrawn.
I wonder if Krashan would consider porting Reggae to 68k given a big enough bounty? That's assuming that it isn't reliant on MorphOS specific features.
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That looks simple enough, consider my request for datatypes withdrawn.
That's the idea - keep it simple. The beauty of the Amiga is the way we can use libraries and devices to interface things, so I like to provide as high a level API as possible. No point in having an easy-to-use library system when the library itself makes it a nightmare to use.
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Only sensible solution is writing a new dedicated player. It is not that much work. Real challenge is writing decoders for the DSP on that sound card. But writing some decent GUI and simple playlist system is piece of cake.
then i dont see an advantage in this kind of device. it is like warpup, only making difference on very few dedicated tasks and everything tat wants to use it must be specifically recompiled against it. why not just buy a standalone $5 mp3 player instead? you can even place it somewhere weithin your amiga if you really must.. otherwise it gets seriously integrated into the system or let it be.
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+1 to the reggae framework.
I guess ist what it boils down to.
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then i dont see an advantage in this kind of device. it is like warpup, only making difference on very few dedicated tasks and everything tat wants to use it must be specifically recompiled against it. why not just buy a standalone $5 mp3 player instead? you can even place it somewhere weithin your amiga if you really must.. otherwise it gets seriously integrated into the system or let it be.
It depends on how much you listen to compressed audio. But remember that not all compressed audio is music which you put on like a jukebox.
The obvious reason is for listening to music. In that case you can use a standalone $5 MP3 player if you want, but you'll need to connect it to an amp. And it won't have access to your Amiga's hard disk. Or the internet.
There are other reasons, though - many later SDL games/apps use compressed audio for background music. You can't play game background music using a $5 MP3 player. For instance SCUMMVM - it uses CD audio compressed as MP3 or OGG. With this, a major load can be removed off the CPU and it sounds better too, if you were using Paula before.
Of course any app to use it will be specifically recompiled with support for it, but that's always the way when you do anything like this. The fact that nothing supports hardware which hasn't been made yet is no reason not to make the hardware.
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*shudder*
I hate static linking. What do you think I am, a Linux coder? :)
Here's what you currently need to do to play an OGG Vorbis file:
PrismaBase = OpenLibrary( "prisma.library", 0L);
Prisma_Init();
Prisma_PlayFile( "GreatMusic.ogg" );
CloseLibrary( PrismaBase);
still this has to be called explicotely, no existing app will take advantage of it.
There are a few extra parameters to PlayFile if you want to use them (volume, balance, buffersize, task priority), but that's pretty much it.
There's also PlayMemory() which I'm going to implement soon, and it's this that'll hook into AHI and any apps such as SCUMM.
Sounds like hacking. If if theres is none then create reasonable abstraction instand to bind your implementation to the particular hardware, that will create another gap among amiga users and another app versions hell fort tue users to fight with..
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many later SDL games/apps use compressed audio for background music.
Exactly. If such a port has ro be explicitely linked to your library to make use of the hardware then it will likely not work otherwise eben without sound. Independent ports will be needed ans ade to tue whole mess.
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then i dont see an advantage in this kind of device. it is like warpup, only making difference on very few dedicated tasks and everything tat wants to use it must be specifically recompiled against it. why not just buy a standalone $5 mp3 player instead? you can even place it somewhere weithin your amiga if you really must.. otherwise it gets seriously integrated into the system or let it be.
DSP decoders are more like a bonus than an advantage. It can be good buy if you dont have a sound card.
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still this has to be called explicotely, no existing app will take advantage of it.
Sounds like hacking. If if theres is none then create reasonable abstraction instand to bind your implementation to the particular hardware, that will create another gap among amiga users and another app versions hell fort tue users to fight with..
An MHI driver might be a good option.
http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/mhi_dev
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An MHI driver might be a good option.
http://aminet.net/package/driver/audio/mhi_MASPro
Now that looks like it might be a good system to use too. I'll see what I can do.
Thanks for the idea!
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delfinampeg.device is what I currently use - source code is available if you need some reference material: http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/dmdev
AIFF-SSND & AIFF-ADP4 Intel/DVI ADPCM sound player and source code
http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/DelfAIFF
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Hi,
Prisma Megamix sound card has been modified, due to customer feedback to have an optional SPDIF expansion module.
Here is picture of latest prototype with the new SPDIF module plugged onto top of card:
(http://www.a-eon.com/images/prisma_prototype_spdif.jpg)
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Hi,
Prisma Megamix sound card has been modified, due to customer feedback to have an optional SPDIF expansion module.
I dont see the point of a SPDIF module. There are lots of inexpensive spdif encoders and decoders which cost $20 USD including shipping (just take look in the evil bay). So I believe this module is reasonable if it costs less than $20 USD.
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I'll need to check exactly how the S/PDIF interfaces with the rest (I don't have this module yet), but if it reads raw data then it means a purely digital pathway from the sound generation through to the receiver. That means no interference or noise - and that's a pretty good thing if you like listening to your music loud!
Even if the pathway from the decoder to the S/PDIF is analogue, it should still pick up a lot less noise than analogue wiring coming out the back of your Miggy.
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The point of SPDIF is to use an external (usually superior) DAC.
If this module does AtoD I dont see the point.
Why go through analog at all? just keep it digital all the way to the output, thats how I like it :)
@Amigakit:
Do you have any specs on the SPDIF output?
Will it support 24bit/96Khz or even 24/192 (provided the source is of the same specs, of course)?
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Technically it should support 20bit Audio by default, 24bit i guess is what we want to know.
I wanna know how much the card will cost.. and when can we order one?
S/PDIF is meant to be used for transmitting 20-bit audio data streams plus other related information. To transmit sources with less than 20 bits of sample accuracy, the superfluous bits will be set to zero. S/PDIF can also transport 24-bit samples by way of four extra bits; however, not all equipment supports this, and these extra bits may be ignored.
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Can someone explain the basic functions of and the advantages to this device?
I have been using standard sound chips too long and I'm baffled as to why you would want something like this.
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Can someone explain the basic functions of and the advantages to this device?
I have been using standard sound chips too long and I'm baffled as to why you would want something like this.
I'm interested in it merely for the novelty of playing MP3's with minimal CPU grinding on my classic Amiga. Though my hope is that this ends up supporting AHI eventually, and I'd hope someone could come along and find a way to make it work with OctaMED. If not then maybe the next Digibooster will support it?
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OK...but MP3 decoding can be done with one dirt cheap chip.
Why the programmable logic?
And, frankly, these days I'm more interested in FLAC.
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I've used S/PDIF to connect the output on my PC's into the input on my receivers for years. Love it, great addition to your card!
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The chip on board does FLAC too
Here's the information on the sound card:
http://www.a-eon.com/18-10-2013-2.pdf
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OK...but MP3 decoding can be done with one dirt cheap chip.
Why the programmable logic?
And, frankly, these days I'm more interested in FLAC.
I'm with you on the FLAC, though I know I won't want Gigs of MP3's on my Amiga's hard drive, so the few I'll have I'll just convert from FLAC, but yes, FLAC playback on Amiga would be awesome!
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Spirantho has already got the Prisma card playing OGG files on his Amiga 2000. Perhaps we can do some FLAC tests?
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SPDIF was always useful when I was recording music with my Amiga. I would use it to transfer mix-downs digitally from my DAT recorder back to the Amiga for burning to CD.
Could also be used for transferring field recordings from minidisc (with SPDIF out) to the Amiga, or from a digital mixer to the Amiga.
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@amigakit
Looks like a great sound card, I hope you sell a ton of them.
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The chip on board does FLAC too
Here's the information on the sound card:
http://www.a-eon.com/18-10-2013-2.pdf
That is nice.
I have never gotten used to using a compression scheme that guarantees lower quality.
I'm still not sure I understand the hardware, but since Trevor is having a version made for a PCI-E expansion slot, if its useful we'll be able to use it in more than the X1000.
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I think FLAC may be optimistic for a 68000 - it requires a lot of data bandwidth and we're already pushing it just with a high-bitrate OGG/MP3. I can try though. :)
It's only CD-quality, though - no 20- or 24-bit or 96KHz I'm afraid.
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@spirantho
I doubt it is a full digital path for SPDIF, as the chip seems to provide only analog outputs. Unless you are doing something wicked with that built-in XilinX.
On the hardware side, you could offer something interesting with the 12 GPIO pins the DSP chip has. Maybe an expansion module that could provide a sort of Geekport or a simple series of relais for controlling fun stuff, or even a LCD module that could display some playback parameters.
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Agree with others.
If your going to build it, build it right.
FLAC and Digital I/O would be a very nice touch. As an added bonus, if it had a z3 mode for optimal bus speed (or at least some trickery to help - similar to what the Delfina Plus bus is capable of doing).
I would bet almost all the cards users will have at least an 030. I would put my efforts for 030, 040 and 060 playback to make FLAC usable.
Appreciate the effort and looking forward to the final product.
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@spirantho
I doubt it is a full digital path for SPDIF, as the chip seems to provide only analog outputs. Unless you are doing something wicked with that built-in XilinX.
I suspected as much. Nonetheless, the audio path between the decoder and the S/PDIF is still much shorter and should held reduce the noise over an analogue output.
On the hardware side, you could offer something interesting with the 12 GPIO pins the DSP chip has. Maybe an expansion module that could provide a sort of Geekport or a simple series of relais for controlling fun stuff, or even a LCD module that could display some playback parameters.
There are possibilities. :) There are certainly things that could be done with the GPIO ports, but the first goal is to make the board and make it work. Extra things like that could be added on to future versions and I'm sure Amigakit are always open to considering such suggestions.
@matt3k
FLAC works fine - it just might struggle on a vanilla 68000... as most people have 68030s at least, and anyone with enough storage space to hold FLACs will almost definitely have at least a 68030 it shouldn't be a problem.
I don't think Z3 will be in the first versions, anyway - but it's not that necessary I don't think. Maybe for highly compressed FLACs, it'd help. We'll be concentrating on Z-II and clockport first, anyway.
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I suspected as much. Nonetheless, the audio path between the decoder and the S/PDIF is still much shorter and should held reduce the noise over an analogue output.
The degradation caused by D/A -> A/D -> D/A again is far greater than minor noise that might be added to the analog out.
Too bad there's no real digital path, I thought about building an A4000 music streamer.
Most of the content I listen to is FLAC at 16-24bits, ranging from 44.1Khz up to 192Khz.
Guess I'll stick with a PC for music playback :)
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You're probably right about that, yes.
What I would say, though, is that my A1500 produces a lot less noise than my PC with it's X-Fi soundcard. I can ramp the volume up much more before I get too much background noise.
That's with an analogue output at the moment.
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@amigakit
Looks like a great sound card, I hope you sell a ton of them.
Thanks, we are working to get good software support for this product to make it really useful. Hope to get direct support in things such as SCUMMVM and AmigaAmp - maybe FFMPEG would be a good candidate program.
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Thanks, we are working to get good software support for this product to make it really useful. Hope to get direct support in things such as SCUMMVM and AmigaAmp - maybe FFMPEG would be a good candidate program.
Fingers crossed for AHI and Digibooster support as well. :)
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Lets not forget AIFF, which is making a come back on beatport.com
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Just for reference if anyone's interested in FLAC - My A1500 (7.14MHz, OS3.1) just managed to play a FLAC of I Feel Fine by the Beatles (2:20) without problem, but it did need a hefty buffer size of 1MB (my Zip drive isn't a speed demon :) ).
Next comes the "Yes" test (7 minutes), then comes the Iron Butterfly test (In-a-gadda-da-vida - all 17 minutes of it - though that won't fit on a Zip disk as a FLAC!)
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Wow! That its really amazing that a 68000 can handle the FLAC file with Prisma decoding.
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@spirantho
I doubt it is a full digital path for SPDIF, as the chip seems to provide only analog outputs. Unless you are doing something wicked with that built-in XilinX.
The decoder provides digital output as I2S data stream at different rates.
On the hardware side, you could offer something interesting with the 12 GPIO pins the DSP chip has. Maybe an expansion module that could provide a sort of Geekport or a simple series of relais for controlling fun stuff, or even a LCD module that could display some playback parameters.
Well, need to get some pics, but the second revision hardware has digital I/Os and also some mysterious addon module in first prototype revision :) It might have to do something with SPDIF output... :)
Stay tuned. Development is ongoing, but a bit slow due to heavy NMIs from my little daughter :)
Michael
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This is an internal media player for amiga. Not a full sound card :(
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This is an internal media player for amiga. Not a full sound card :(
To my mind this is a sound card built-in DSP like Delfina, Delfina only had separately DSP and had to programmed DSP to decode adpcm4, mp3.
For example, on the basis of sources PS3M/DigiBooster2 player can make a new player, instead of sending audio PCM to the Paula sent to the card in PCM WAV.
http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/ps3m312
http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/ps3msrc
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This is an internal media player for amiga. Not a full sound card :(
This is true.
However, as it is a sound card that supports WAV (i.e. uncompressed audio), we're planning to make a simple AHI driver too. It won't be a full RTA solution like a Prelude - it's not meant to be - but we're aiming to use the WAV functionality to give Classic Amigas a CD-Quality AHI channel.
It's primary focus is indeed for decoding of compressed audio, though, yes.
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The decoder provides digital output as I2S data stream at different rates.
Then I stand corrected :)
Well, need to get some pics, but the second revision hardware has digital I/Os and also some mysterious addon module in first prototype revision :) It might have to do something with SPDIF output... :)
Stay tuned. Development is ongoing, but a bit slow due to heavy NMIs from my little daughter :)
Michael
Interesting. Lets see what comes out in the end.
And kids, are definately NMIs ! ;)
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To my mind this is a sound card built-in DSP like Delfina, Delfina only had separately DSP and had to programmed DSP to decode adpcm4, mp3.
For example, on the basis of sources PS3M/DigiBooster2 player can make a new player, instead of sending audio PCM to the Paula sent to the card in PCM WAV.
http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/ps3m312
http://aminet.net/package/mus/play/ps3msrc
damn that's what I was hoping for....a new sound card, fully supported so i wouldn't have to replace my audio caps (just remove them to avoid acid damage to my 1d4);)
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Stay tuned. Development is ongoing, but a bit slow due to heavy NMIs from my little daughter :)
That's what Cartoon Network is for :D
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damn that's what I was hoping for....a new sound card, fully supported so i wouldn't have to replace my audio caps (just remove them to avoid acid damage to my 1d4);)
For one thing it'd have to be a pretty special sound card to emulate Paula in games. :)
Secondly, I'd very strongly recommend getting your A1200 recapped if it ever plays up at all. The sound caps do go easily... but so do some of the power ones...
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Latest News updated on Prisma Megamix:
Prisma.library is completed
MHI development is also completed and working- this is good for compatibility with programs such as AmigaAmp.
A new redesign of the board and SPDIF out option has been added and tested!
We are going to production shortly with first batch being a few hundred units.
Price is of course subject to change, but to give you an idea, it is likely to be approximately GBP £70 / 85 EUR including VAT (US $ 95 ) depending on final price of the sound chip and costs of hiring the production machines.
5 EUR more was added to cost for gold plating on the Zorro connector - we thought this would be better than going for budget options.
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Excellent news.
Is the AHI driver going to be ready at launch?
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I will have to consult with spirantho who is currently looking into the driver's possibilities.
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The price hasn't been decided yet, but it won't be ridiculous. Unlikely to be £50, though, I'm afraid
This is a sorely needed peripheral for classic Amiga computers. I will definitely purchase at least one.
I for one understand that this will not be a "cheap as chips" product. You have to pay a licence fee for compression encode, and the way that gets handled is in the cost of the encoder chip. They are not particularly cheap for this reason, and they are far more expensive in low numbers than in bulk.
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I will have to consult with spirantho who is currently looking into the driver's possibilities.
Thanks.
It would be great to have both MHI and AHI support with a pass-through for Paula.
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The hardware passes through Paula sounds with a RCA connector where you can route the Paula sounds in and Prisma will hardware mix it.
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@amigakit
I would buy this card but that could also connect it to a USB port for Efika and Mac mini.
Sound by AHI is a poor sound quality.
http://www.morphzone.info/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9012&post_id=98318&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1
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Hiya,
How's the AHI driver progressing? Can you tell us anything about it yet the max sample rate or if it will support 16bit?
I just wondering if passing 16bit stereo sound to this card will take up less of the CPU cycles than using AHI with Paula. In theory a real 16bit card would skip the conversion (down to 8/14 bit) which may give it a slight edge.
Some of my ports like ScummVM produce 16bit stereo sound and so I use AHI to deal with the conversion.
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Fingers crossed for AHI and Digibooster support as well. :)
+ 1
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Hiya,
How's the AHI driver progressing? Can you tell us anything about it yet the max sample rate or if it will support 16bit?
I just wondering if passing 16bit stereo sound to this card will take up less of the CPU cycles than using AHI with Paula. In theory a real 16bit card would skip the conversion (down to 8/14 bit) which may give it a slight edge.
Some of my ports like ScummVM produce 16bit stereo sound and so I use AHI to deal with the conversion.
The AHI driver will always be limited compared to a dedicated sound card like the Prelude. The Prisma is, after all, primarily a music card - it just so happens that it's a music card that supports uncompressed audio :) It does mean that it only supports two channels - left and right. There may yet be problems with the AHI driver as we're kind of fitting a square peg into a round hole so we're concentrating on the music functionality first.
AHI does, I believe, support software mixing itself, so only having two channels shouldn't be a problem, but using Paula may well still be useful for spot effects. Also, you won't be able to play AHI samples at the same time as decoding another compressed stream (as there's only one decoder!). For something like ScummVM I'd recommend using the Prisma for the background music, and Paula for the sound effects.
If your background music is WAV, of course, you could use AHI for that and the sound effects at the same time.
Quality is always up to 16-bit 44KHz ("CD qaulity").
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Sorry for noticing the card so late. Hopefully it is not too late to contribute:
Questions:
Will this card have drivers for both OS3.9 and OS4.1 Classic? I ask this because I have Solo-1 in Mediator for them and Terratec 512i for better sound for OS3.9 only. So I would be happy to buy this to replace them both.
Is that connector on top left this: HD Audio connector (F - Audio) (http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6233846100_1365001801.jpg) which helps those who build their Amiga to modern PC cases could use the audipanels included. I just built a adapter cable to connect A4000 and Solo-1 sound card with 3.5mm plugs to LIAN LI PC-D 600 (http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d600/) F- AUDIO cable.
How much address space will this card consume? I have A4000 + Mediator and Radeon 256MB+ZorRAM 256MB+X-Surf 100+Solo-1+Terratec 512i consumes so much address space that I can't use Picasso IV and Elbox FastATA4000 VI with them at all.
Comments:
Changing that white connector to 90 degree one would help those who have many Zorro cards and this goes under some other card.
Would be a good idea to have silkscreen saying "AMIGA FRONT SIDE or AMIGA REAR SIDE" and pointing to their directions to avoid plugging the card to Zorro in a wrong way. This would also help with MEDIATOR 4000D MK-II where "THIS SIDE UP or THIS SIDE DOWN" might give wrong impression if Mediator is installed to customized case with card brackets pointing down like it is for me.
For those who speculate on the price, I'm pretty sure that it will be more expensive than ZorRAM 256MB made by same authors, which did not require any driver coding. Depending on the price, I will buy 1-3 for my own use.
For the one who said his is only for A2000/A3000/A4000, you forgot that many A1200 users have tower cases and bus expansions to be able to use Zorro cards and even PCI cards. I think there is a great market it compated to many other Amiga hadware.
After this I would like to see some new graphics card for Amiga Zorro and some A3000/A4000 CPU card that would make Cyberstorm PPCs less must for OS4.1 Classic users. There are already enough new acceletator cards for A500/A600/A1200.
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[youtube]Vup29ZUhMwA[/youtube]
:)
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Sorry for noticing the card so late. Hopefully it is not too late to contribute:
Questions:
Will this card have drivers for both OS3.9 and OS4.1 Classic? I ask this because I have Solo-1 in Mediator for them and Terratec 512i for better sound for OS3.9 only. So I would be happy to buy this to replace them both.
OS 4.1 for the Classic will be supported, yes. I got a CS-PPC specially for my A4000 at work so now it has to be done :)
Is that connector on top left this: HD Audio connector (F - Audio) (http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6233846100_1365001801.jpg) which helps those who build their Amiga to modern PC cases could use the audipanels included. I just built a adapter cable to connect A4000 and Solo-1 sound card with 3.5mm plugs to LIAN LI PC-D 600 (http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d600/) F- AUDIO cable.
No, that's the JTAG connector, sorry! If you have a front panel connector which comes out as separate plugs rather than a block, though, you can still connect it that way.
How much address space will this card consume? I have A4000 + Mediator and Radeon 256MB+ZorRAM 256MB+X-Surf 100+Solo-1+Terratec 512i consumes so much address space that I can't use Picasso IV and Elbox FastATA4000 VI with them at all.
I think from memory it's 64KB. It's not a lot.
Comments:
Changing that white connector to 90 degree one would help those who have many Zorro cards and this goes under some other card.
I use a ribbon cable, which just about fits, but yes. Maybe Matthew can comment (I'm only the software guy :) )
Would be a good idea to have silkscreen saying "AMIGA FRONT SIDE or AMIGA REAR SIDE" and pointing to their directions to avoid plugging the card to Zorro in a wrong way. This would also help with MEDIATOR 4000D MK-II where "THIS SIDE UP or THIS SIDE DOWN" might give wrong impression if Mediator is installed to customized case with card brackets pointing down like it is for me.
I think the board is already screened, but maybe in the next version? Need to ask Matthew.
For those who speculate on the price, I'm pretty sure that it will be more expensive than ZorRAM 256MB made by same authors, which did not require any driver coding. Depending on the price, I will buy 1-3 for my own use.
The ZorRAM retails at about £150 from memory - the Prisma should be much less than that.
For the one who said his is only for A2000/A3000/A4000, you forgot that many A1200 users have tower cases and bus expansions to be able to use Zorro cards and even PCI cards. I think there is a great market it compated to many other Amiga hadware.
I think this board will usually be used in a desktop or tower too (not a "wedge" Amiga), but it'll be interesting to see.
After this I would like to see some new graphics card for Amiga Zorro and some A3000/A4000 CPU card that would make Cyberstorm PPCs less must for OS4.1 Classic users. There are already enough new accelerator cards for A500/A600/A1200.
An Amiga Zorro graphics card is possible but drivers will be difficult so it won't be cheap. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
I'm afraid you should forget about a PPC card for the A3000/A4000 (or A1200 for that matter) - it's not going to happen, as they're just SO complicated. The market is too small for that kind of financial outlay.
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Nice video NovaCoder! Seeing that already answered something I asked too. I wonder why your oscillator is socketed. Testing different clocks or it came late after the sample card arrival maybe?
OS 4.1 for the Classic will be supported, yes. I got a CS-PPC specially for my A4000 at work so now it has to be done :)
Good, but is this a promise to code driver suitable for OS3.9 too? Support for both OS3.9 (for gaming) and support for OS4.1 Classic (for some utilty) is needed to enlargen the market. Just like it is done with X-Surf 100.
No, that's the JTAG connector, sorry! If you have a front panel connector which comes out as separate plugs rather than a block, though, you can still connect it that way.
Yes, but F-AUDIO connector is already more common in new computer cases. There are no adapters for F-AUDIO to 3.5. I have searched ebay a lot for this one and ended up ordering some cheap heaset adapter, chopping other end off and soldering 10-pin male pin header to make adapter. This is an adapter AmigaKit should make too and sell it.
I think from memory it's 64KB. It's not a lot.
I have a table somewhere where I have collected how much my Zorro and PCI cards consume. I want to link it here when I find it.
I use a ribbon cable, which just about fits, but yes. Maybe Matthew can comment (I'm only the software guy :) )
Indivision AGA 4000 MK II has 90 degree flat cable connector. 90 degree connector is not much more expensive, but if using soldering wave machine techology for bottom side solders it has to be guaranteed that the PCB will not "drink" from the solder wave and get solder inside plastic frame, but this is only the concern of electronic factory where you produce them.
I think the board is already screened, but maybe in the next version? Need to ask Matthew.
Silkscreen always increases the price and both sides silkscreened is even more expensive, but it always gives more professional look and useful instruction and the most important componets numbers. ZorRAM is silkscreened so I believe the final version will have AmigaKit texts as usual, so adding some more text costs nothing.
The ZorRAM retails at about £150 from memory - the Prisma should be much less than that.
If it will be cheaper, I'm amazed but won't complain. :)
An Amiga Zorro graphics card is possible but drivers will be difficult so it won't be cheap. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
I'm afraid you should forget about a PPC card for the A3000/A4000 (or A1200 for that matter) - it's not going to happen, as they're just SO complicated. The market is too small for that kind of financial outlay.
Maybe then Zorro graphics card using some old chip that already has basic routines in kernel.
Now that you mention it, I realized one Amiga accessory I would like to have professionally produced: Cyberstorm PPC heatsink and cooler that has same block for both CPUs leveled in a way that 80-120mm fan would cool both. Also maybe on option of attacking a metal cradle to the heatsink to put 120mm cooler over SIMM sockets.
Previously I have used a hinge where a fast PAPST 120mm cooler is attached, but that will not get a surface touch of PPC heating with is lower than 060 heatsing, so PPC CPU will not cool as much as it would with a surface touch fan. See this (http://saku.bbs.fi/lehti/online/uusi/muut/kuvat/cyberstormppc_tuuletin.jpg).
I'm sure all those who own a very valuable Cyberstorm PPC would like to pay quite much for such a thing. The original PPC heatink and cooler are very weak and unreliable.
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We will be producing the various audio panels for A1200 desktop/towers and big box Amigas.
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Any news on what Steven Solie's speech covered?
Still a bunch of empty promises
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUbdN8UCCYQ
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Managed to get it to play a compressed music file OK, still some work to do of course.
I'll try and add OGG support to one of my ports next by using the libraries API.
[youtube]LOHj5Y9_zK4[/youtube]
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Nice video, thanks!
Just a note- the music pause in SysInfo is not a bug, it is simply SysInfo disabling multitasking whilst it calculates MIPs.
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@amigakit
Can you do some tests and see if the Prisma Megamix is compatible with those 4-way clockport expanders that were released few years back?
I think there will be plenty of A1200 users that will be interested in your Prisma Megamix sound card but won't necessarily be prepared to sacrifice their Subway USB card for. As those 4-way clockport expanders are no longer being produced will you please consider a new production run for your customers, I believe the blueprints are freely available on the internet.
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@akiko
Duly noted- I will make some inquiries. I have a Spider USB in my A1200 at the moment, so I take you point. Also remember that the Prisma will work in a Zorro slot if you have a big box Amiga.
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A-EON Technology delivers :)
(http://www.a1k.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85961&stc=1&d=1397761445)
(http://www.a1k.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85962&stc=1&d=1397761445)
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Want badly!
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Very nice! Will be ordering once the order page goes up. Thanks AmigaKit!
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Wonderful news a card that means I can listen to FLAC and not that dreadful sounding Mp3 that sounds like the flushing of a toilet,i for one cant wait and well done to all involved I can almost hear my 1200/600 revving up for the occasion, best wishes Brian.:):):):):):):)
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It's very nice. What we always wanted, an affordable sound card.
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WANT!!!!!!
I also need more Zorro III slots! :)
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one simple question, is that going to be system transparent or not? will the existing software be able to take advantage of it? say there is a game port compiled with the audio enabled, that struggles on a genuine hardware, but runs well as soon as sound is muted, will this run over this card without a recompile against some additional dependencies?
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What you're asking really, I think, is does it support AHI. Currently it does not, but that's because I've not finished the driver yet. We're hoping to be able to support a basic AHI driver. Obviously it doesn't replace Paula or anything like that (that's impossible without a huge amount of work, as non-AHI programs tend to just hit the hardware).
It does support MHI if the game supports that, but I don't know of any that do.
Edit:
@MrMoonlight
It goes without saying that I shall be using parts of my rather comprehensive Beatles music collection to test with :) I have Dr. Ebbett's FLACs for testing with, and all my needle-drops of my Beatles records are in 200Kbps OGG Vorbis format.
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Obviously it doesn't replace Paula or anything like that (that's impossible without a huge amount of work, as non-AHI programs tend to just hit the hardware).
You should be able to hijack audio.device too.
As they ask about software that runs full speed without sound enabled, but doesn't when sound is enabled. The only thing that could be saved would be AHI software mixing and potentially 14 bit processing when using Paula.
So I believe the question the wanted answering was likely to be: Is this going to be as slow as using AHI with paula?
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I doubt you'd see any difference, to be honest - the Zorro II bus is about the same speed as Chip RAM (i.e. not fast).
Please remember that the Prisma is a different beast entirely to Paula. Paula plays sound samples but has no concept of streaming. Prisma plays streams but has no concept of sound samples (per se - but you can stream a sample).
The AHI driver will at best be something that might come in handy in certain circumstances, it is not (and is not designed to be) a replacement for Paula or any other sound card that requires use of a lot of samples.
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What you're asking really, I think, is does it support AHI. Currently it does not, but that's because I've not finished the driver yet. We're hoping to be able to support a basic AHI driver.
but is ahi supporting hardware accelerated audio decoding to take advantage of this device or will that ahi driver just be able to map the audio output to the card and as long as the application isnt compiled against mhi there will be no speedup?
Obviously it doesn't replace Paula or anything like that (that's impossible without a huge amount of work, as non-AHI programs tend to just hit the hardware).
this doesnt matter as long as paula itself can be passed/mixed through.
It does support MHI if the game supports that, but I don't know of any that do.
okay, so the idea is to push compiling ports against mhi. imho that might work out as long as mhi has some dummy backend for amigas without that hardware that just leaves out all compressed streams, freeng cpu and allowing essentially run the software at acceptable speed just without the sound.
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People talk about "afordable soundcard" but... whats afordable for aeon?
Its a player? can i use it for soundstudio?
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People talk about "afordable soundcard" but... whats afordable for aeon?
Its a player? can i use it for soundstudio?
Affordable like a Blizzard 1260.
If you render the SS output in a format supported by the card then you can at least listen to your creations in higher quality than Paula can do.
Does SS use AHI, maybe the streaming facility will allow you to output directly from SS but we'll have to wait and see.
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Affordable like a Blizzard 1260.
you compare a specialized audio decoder to general purpose accelerator sporting highst end cpu that was viable for the platform at given time?
If you render the SS output in a format supported by the card then you can at least listen to your creations in higher quality than Paula can do.
in fact this hardware looks exactly as useless for existing software as ppc hybrid accelerators at their time, which were a huge mistake in their own right, frankly without any crucial consequences anymore, except the last customers paying fortunes for almost nothing in return.
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Affordable like a Blizzard 1260.
If you render the SS output in a format supported by the card then you can at least listen to your creations in higher quality than Paula can do.
Does SS use AHI, maybe the streaming facility will allow you to output directly from SS but we'll have to wait and see.
Blizzard 1260 is totally cool piece of hardware to real amigas.
Then this "audio card" is useless for editing software, with your information seems like just a player, 30-40€ can be a good price.
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Blizzard 1260 is totally cool piece of hardware to real amigas.
Then this "audio card" is useless for editing software, with your information seems like just a player, 30-40€ can be a good price.
dont know if i need amiga to substitute an mp3 player stick. im not sure if i need to hear crappy repetitive music while playing game, i mostly turn it down anyway. a decoder could be used at best to decode sound effects. the problem today is rather to find a game to port that will be playable on amiga even without sound. and when comes to sound effects the games usually are so overloaded with them, i wonder if a streaming decoder will cope well with that task. this is probably up to novacoder to tell.
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Please remember that the Prisma is a different beast entirely to Paula. Paula plays sound samples but has no concept of streaming. Prisma plays streams but has no concept of sound samples (per se - but you can stream a sample).
Can you define what you mean by sample and stream.
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A sample is really just a very short stream.
The real difference is in buffering - a sample would be loaded entirely into memory and the the sound chip (e.g. Paula) is instructed to playback memory starting from its address and then stopping at the end.
Streaming would be where - in the case of a sound chip like Paula - you would keep looping the data and changing the data in the buffer. With the Prisma, it just keeps on decoding and playing whatever we send to it. We can play samples on the Prisma in the same way as with Paula - by telling it to decode the contents of the buffer - but only two channels are available. We can't tell Prisma to play more than two sounds at once, in other words, and one would be in the left speaker, the other in the right.
With software mixing this isn't a problem, of course - but then speed becomes a factor as software mixing can be slow.
What it comes down to is this:
Sound samples - should be very quick to play with low latency (point Paula to the memory and let it do its thing). Prisma can not do this easily.
Music streams (or mixed audio) - Paula can't do this easily - it requires juggling a buffer to keep the data going. Prisma can do this easily - just keep feeding it data.
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First, to get good sound quality we would need to replace the AHI, read a Interview: http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2014-03-00064-EN.html
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We can't tell Prisma to play more than two sounds at once, in other words, and one would be in the left speaker, the other in the right.
thats finnally spelled out as i suspected.
With software mixing this isn't a problem, of course - but then speed becomes a factor as software mixing can be slow.
okay, so with software mixing the card practically loses its all advantage against the bare system. the speed and the cpu load would immediatly become the same problem as it is without the card.
few years ago i ported or attempted to port different sdl games to amiga and so noticed that the sound is usually necessary to be turned off as a whole in order to make it at least thinkable to port. the load of decoding sound alone was taking almost the whole bandwidth of the system even with a 060. now if we imagine such a typical game, its audio consist usually of an underlying soundtrack plus a great number of event triggered sound effects that may well happen at the same time or overleap.
all in all even if we have just stereo soundtrack to decode and a single layer of sound effect samples it seems the card becomes unusable to conveniently cope with that task.
and i very much doubt that when porting game your regular bedroom coder will be able to leave the soudtrack as compressed audio while converting the sound effects to be played by paula, as it has never happened till now to my knowledge.
so, im sorry, looks like this card is useless except for playing back mp3s.
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I agree with you right up to the last few statements. :)
This card is a music player. NOT a retargetable audio sound card. The idea is to allow people to play music on their Amigas of whatever spec. There is the useful side-effect that people like Novacoder can use the Prisma to play backing music on games which have a compressed audio stream. Paula should still be used for sound effects, which is what it's good at (after all, an 8-bit explosion sounds pretty similar to a 16-bit explosion) and why the Prisma mixes in Paula audio with the outputted music stream
If you're not looking for a card that can play compressed audio in CD-quality, but are looking for a full sound-card then this card is not for you.
But if you are looking for a card that can play just about any music track on your Amiga, and (with help from people like Novacoder) able to play games with a full soundtrack like ScummVM, then this is what you are looking for.
For what it's worth, this will make it MUCH easier for bedroom coders to play back compressed audio soundtracks while using audio device (Paula) for spot effects. A simple call to Prisma_PlayFile() is all that's needed - can't get much simpler than that.
The planned AHI driver does not mean the card has the same qualities as a full sound card - it just means a way of getting CD-quality audio out of a normal Amiga - maybe useful with things like emulators where it's just a sound stream but is uncompressed.
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For what it's worth, this will make it MUCH easier for bedroom coders to play back compressed audio soundtracks while using audio device (Paula) for spot effects. A simple call to Prisma_PlayFile() is all that's needed - can't get much simpler than that.
but thats exactly the problem your card will not improve upon. even without background music, which is easy to get along without anyway, be via it paula or another ahi device the sound effects decoding will likely create a load that is unbearable for an amiga system one way or another.
my point is exactly that, this card is hyped as a (multipurpose) "sound card" able to play compressed formats, and people expect considerable boost in general audio playback, games and other applications, while as you wrote its is good to playback one stereo soundtrack at a time.
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I'm not sure people do expect a considerable boost in anything except compressed audio streams, do they? I'm not sure why'd they think that, to be honest.
Generally speaking I think Paula is quite fast enough to do spot effects itself - it's something the Amiga has always been able to do well. What the Amiga has never been able to do is to decode high-quality music, and that's what the Prisma does.
From the press-release:
The Prisma Megamix is a dual-use card which can be connected to either the Zorro II or a Clockport and incorporates a VS1063 DSP chip which can play and encode MP2, MP3, WMA, OGG, LC-AAC, HE-AAC, FLAC, IMA, WAV PCM and many other sound formats making it ideal for hi-fi audio playback and streaming applications.
I'm not sure why people would think it would do anything other than stream audio? We've always said the planned AHI driver will be minimal because this is a decoder card that happens to do PCM.
Note I'm not trying to be critical here - I just want to know where this misunderstanding has come from as I don't want people to buy the card thinking it's going to somehow speed up old software!
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@spirantho
I'm not sure people do expect a considerable boost in anything except compressed audio streams, do they? I'm not sure why'd they think that, to be honest.
as you see people are asking questions like if this card would assist with their music software (be it hd-rec, or some tracker i dont know) to play multiple compressed tracks (i assume). then the people wonder their games would run faster with it or will there be games with more sound effects and so on. this is not entirely clear to everybody, which you may not realize being yourself involved, and to be honest, you were a little vague about this, probably in order not to turn people off in advance.
just to observe that the title of this thread suggests a general purpose sound card, and as for the press release it suggests that it can play compressed formats, not mentioning that it is restricted to just one hardware accelerated stereo stream/sample at a time.
Generally speaking I think Paula is quite fast enough to do spot effects itself - it's something the Amiga has always been able to do well. What the Amiga has never been able to do is to decode high-quality music, and that's what the Prisma does.
yes, but then if you bother to rewrite every sound effect call to paula, and convert every sample to amiga format you end up with a port, that will run as well on amiga hardware without the card in question. perhaps except the background music, but thats the whole difference.
Note I'm not trying to be critical here - I just want to know where this misunderstanding has come from as I don't want people to buy the card thinking it's going to somehow speed up old software!
i not trying to be critical either, the whole point is i agree exactly on this statement with you, and this is the whole point of my posting.
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yes, but then if you bother to rewrite every sound effect call to paula, and convert every sample to amiga format you end up with a port, that will run as well on amiga hardware without the card in question. perhaps except the background music, but thats the whole difference.
That IS the difference, exactly. It's not designed to help with anything else.
i not trying to be critical either, the whole point is i agree exactly on this statement with you, and this is the whole point of my posting.
That's good, this is the whole point of my replying. :)
It's very difficult to get across exactly what a card can do when we ourselves don't know what it can do as the software is still being written. The best I can do is try to field as many questions as I can when people have them.
I really don't want us to sell Prisma cards to people expecting a full sound-card like a Delfina or Prelude - that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. But to many people, being able to do things like have music in their games is part of the experience - especially on some games like Monkey Island where the music is awesome!
I also don't want to sell the Prisma short, though - it's a nice piece of kit. I know this because my A1200 is kicking out a "Yes" album right now (using my NAS over wifi to serve the 200Kbps OGG) as I write this post. And that's a good thing. :)
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:)
thanks, and keep us posted on unexpected achievements. :D
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I did a quick update to my upcoming Duke Nukem port tonight to add Prisma support. After tracking down some really high quality OGG files of the game's original music it was really easy to do. I've only given it a quick test but it doesn't appear to be adding a noticeable load on the CPU and it sounds fantastic.
Spirantho has done a really good job with the library :)
I'm currently waiting for the video to be uploaded.....
[youtube]UlZLK3CO1Fk[/youtube]
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@nova
do you think its possible to keep prisma detection and support within universal executable?
why im asking this is because of the versions mess on aminet where every cpu gets its own dedicated optimized executable. this is in many cases already a task for itself to find the right one. i think we should push towards plug and play philosophy where possible, too much thinkering puts the not so hardcore audience off.
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@nova
do you think its possible to keep prisma detection and support within universal executable?
why im asking this is because of the versions mess on aminet where every cpu gets its own dedicated optimized executable. this is in many cases already a task for itself to find the right one. i think we should push towards plug and play philosophy where possible, too much thinkering puts the not so hardcore audience off.
It uses a library which means it will be upgradeable as long as the interface methods don't change.
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@wawrzon
don't worry, it's very easy - just call OpenLibrary on prisma.library and if it fails, then don't play any streamed audio. No reason for it to be complicated.
Edit:
@Novacoder
Thanks for the kind words.. it means a lot to hear that it's working and doing what you want (it's not like I'm getting rich off this. :) ).
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@novacoder
Awesome news: cant wait to view your video and try your port :) Thanks for integrating Prisma with your port.
@spirantho
Thank you for your hard work on the prisma.library - much appreciated
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@wawrzon
don't worry, it's very easy - just call OpenLibrary on prisma.library and if it fails, then don't play any streamed audio. No reason for it to be complicated.
perfect. thats what i mean!
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Interesting. I hope they add Toccata emulation, so we can use it under MovieShop.
That's a good idea. That's why I swapped my Delfina Lite with a Toccata. :(
And is it able play mp3 files at 320kbps? At least on a Zorro slot?
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Not sure about Toccata emulation - depends on how difficult it is to add and how useful it would be.
It can play 320kbps mp3, yes. :)
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Another thing came to my mind. What about midi soundfont support. No need for midi in and out. Just a hardware way to play midi files and maybe even play games that have midi without much slowdown?
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but this chip has no hardware midi afaik. it is just streaming audio hardware decoder. for hardware midi ( polifonic & multitimbral )you would need a real soundcard hardware.
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OK, another update.
All the Prisma cards arrived from Michael and they look great.
(http://www.a-eon.com/images/prisma_megamix_final.png)
Michael is also manufacturing an audio back plate PCB for towered A1200's and big box Amigas which will an optional extra for the card.
I have been really busy with AMIStore development so decided last weekend to devote to Prisma instead :)
In the meantime, Spirantho very kindly sacrificied one of his weekends to add an AREXX port to the Prisma.library which is indeed very handy.
So I changed my PrismaControl programme to take advantage of Spirantho's efforts. Now PrismaControl uses Arexx messaging and it works well for all of my tests so far on my A1200T.
(http://www.a-eon.com/images/prismacontrol.jpg)
It also means all you programmers out there can make your programs control the Prisma card with a few simple Arexx messages, for example:
rx "ADDRESS PRISMA_MSG_PORT 'PLAY'"
rx "ADDRESS PRISMA_MSG_PORT 'STOP'"
rx "ADDRESS PRISMA_MSG_PORT 'VOLUME 10'"
I haven't yet tried it, but I also believe that I could modify my IBrowse MIME settings to play OGG, MP3, WAV files from webpage links. Any suggestions on this would be good.
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When will these be available for purchase?
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Im lost about the progress of this card, but i just see everytime mp3 players... that is the definitive use of the card?
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Not sure about Toccata emulation - depends on how difficult it is to add and how useful it would be.
It can play 320kbps mp3, yes. :)
Toccata emu would be a big deal becuase there are many vlab motion boards out there and not alot of toccata. Its a really nice board, but most of the ahi soundcards can do what it does already no?
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Im lost about the progress of this card, but i just see everytime mp3 players... that is the definitive use of the card?
No, it plays lots of formats and has other features.
All of which are listed in this thread and press release.
What you said is like saying, "I keep seeing .wav files is that all this cd-rw drive is good for".
Makes no sense.
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OGG Vorbis playing is much more important to me. :)
But yes, I can't stress enough, the card is made for playing compressed audio streams above all else.
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@Spirantho @Follett
I was just wondering.. could one make a similar card only for videos (MPEG, AVI and all those formats)? It would be great fun playing videos/clips on the 1200 without lag. And it could be used for productions as well.. games containing video footage etc. Many possibilities.
If AmigaKit decided to release such an item, I'd buy it for sure.
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It's a nice idea, but the A1200 wouldn't be enough, I don't think. The ClockPort would be out, for sure (far too slow) maybe a Zorro-III card could send the data fast enough, I'm not sure - Zorro-II would be enough for smaller videos.
It's a possibility, after all the CD32 had an FMV cartridge, but I'm not sure how easy or worthwhile it'd be given it'd be limited by the bus bandwidth.
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I think we will soon see FPGA based CPU+GPU cards sold to classic fans.
With that kind of card you should be able to build mpeg decoder on the chip as well.
(only depends on what fits on/in the FPGA chip used)
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@Spirantho
Thanks for the reply. :) I did not consider the speed of the ClockPort. Maybe AmigaKit looks into it and comes up with an ingenious device. It's worth hoping for. As you said, the CD32 had the FMV unit.
@KimmoK
Are these accelerator cards for the trapdoor? Who is making them?
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making dedicated cards for every single task there is will make you run out of expansion ports pretty soon, i doubt this is anything more than gimmick.
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It's a nice idea, but the A1200 wouldn't be enough, I don't think. The ClockPort would be out, for sure (far too slow) maybe a Zorro-III card could send the data fast enough, I'm not sure - Zorro-II would be enough for smaller videos.
It's a possibility, after all the CD32 had an FMV cartridge, but I'm not sure how easy or worthwhile it'd be given it'd be limited by the bus bandwidth.
As far as I recall C= also had planned the FMV on a Zorro II or III card for the A4000. Maybe there was even a prototype. Of course you know the history and it never materialized :)
Anyway, back to the Prisma...really looking forward to it! Thanks for of your work on it! :)
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No, it plays lots of formats and has other features.
All of which are listed in this thread and press release.
What you said is like saying, "I keep seeing .wav files is that all this cd-rw drive is good for".
Makes no sense.
No... you dont understad, i only see a internal mp3, ogg, flac, (whatever format), and after many post i dont know if this card have more uses than a music player. Makes sense.
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ALAC decoder for VS1063a available (experimental)
http://www.vsdsp-forum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1320
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The card supports WAV PCM format , according to the press release - given that is generally uncompressed audio (afaik), while it might not be able to do multichannel mixing in hardware, at the very least it should be possible to act as a two channel 16 bit audio output from something like Octamed ?
Even when mixed with the Amigas audio, could be useful having a couple of 16bit channels on top of the usual four 8bit ones.
Surely a software driver for something like that would be possible?
Mixing more than two channels would probably be done on the software side and need a decent CPU.
Has anyone thought of this ?
Nick
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Believe me, we've thought about it. :)
We're still looking at doing an AHI driver for the card, but this is secondary to the primary purpose, so will come later.
The problem is that when we mentioned AHI, people expected it to be a fully retargetable audio card like a Prelude or a Toccata - it's not. The VS1063a has a tiny buffer on it, so it's not suitable for anything other than streamed music really - i.e. what it's designed for. In fact, if we do an AHI driver, it will primarily be for Octamed and things like that!
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Believe me, we've thought about it. :)
We're still looking at doing an AHI driver for the card, but this is secondary to the primary purpose, so will come later.
Sorry, I'm a bit out of date, but no AHI driver? I would use this card primarily to playback MP3's with TuneNet (on OS 4.1 Classic) or using a variety of 3rd party MP3 players (AmigaAMP, AMPlifier, AmiNetRadio, etc...) so for this wouldn't an AHI driver be a requirement out-of-the-box ?
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@HammerD
It has a MHI driver already. AmigaAmp and others use MHI.
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Where is it!!?? I have cash to burn!
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@HammerD
It has a MHI driver already. AmigaAmp and others use MHI.
Thanks and this works with TuneNet as well?
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Not sure if TuneNet supports MHI. Will have to do some research into it.
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VS1063 PCMMIX
http://www.vsdsp-forum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1314
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New DigiBooster3 for mixing does not use the AHI. AHI is used only for send 2ch PCM stream at all cards. So with card Prisma Megamix do not need at all to use the AHI. AHI only slows down and reduces the quality of the sound. link (http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2014-03-00064-EN.html)
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If the author of Digibooster 3 wants to use the Prisma.library directly, I'm more than happy to help....
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I wonder if Krashan would consider porting Reggae to 68k given a big enough bounty? That's assuming that it isn't reliant on MorphOS specific features.
Would be a funny experiment and in theory there are no serious obstacles. It wouldn't be trivial, but isn't technically impossible. However in Prisma case it would not help. As far as I understand, the card takes an encoded stream, decodes it, performs D/A conversion and outputs analog audio. There is no way to get decoded PCM stream back to the computer. Then Prisma is equivalent to Reggae demuxer + decoder + output classes merged into one. Not very useful.
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@spirantho: Just sent a mail to you. I guess it is possible, but I need more technical information about Prisma and the library.
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Ian provided me with the new Prisma.library this week which enables Zorro mode. So Chris and I tested Prisma in two A4000s, one with a Buster 9 and one with a Buster 11. All tests passed
Yesterday evening I implemented the extended m3u support in PrismaControl and my work today is to implement reading and displaying the ID3 data.
I am waiting for Ian to add a few extra features to the Prisma.library such as a message to my program that the song has ended and also a progress indicator.
The Prisma.library for 68k is currently high optimised in assembler for maximum performance so it needs to be converted back to c code in order to port to OS4 for the future AmigaOS 4.1 Classic version of the library.
Just enabled M4A filetype in the add song.. ASL requester to add the the FLAC, MP2, MP3, OGG, WAV supported file types.
Testing some M4A songs on my A1200 - they play well :)
(http://amigakit.com/images/prisma_add_song.jpg)
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That's Brilliant! Keep up the good work.
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Where is it!!?? I have cash to burn!
I know! When it's done!
Edit: or two more weeks.
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Odamex AGA...Prisma style! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_AmOFfaBIQ)
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Nice!
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You cut your video off too early, I was just getting into the music! :hammer:
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You cut your video off too early, I was just getting into the music! :hammer:
Sorry my friend, I was running late!
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So for how much longer is this to be Vaporware?
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So for how much longer is this to be Vaporware?
It's not Vaporware if I have one ;)
Seriously though, they obviously exists but AmigaKit/A-EON are not quite ready to release them yet.
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It's not Vaporware if I have one ;)
So have I! ;-)
TrevorD
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Care to share?
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So roll that puppy out already! Software updates can come in the future.
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So roll that puppy out already! Software updates can come in the future.
I quite agree.
TrevorD
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I quite agree.
TrevorD
Need one to rebuild my A2000. Would love to use it as a games/music server machine ;).
Chris
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Need one to rebuild my A2000. Would love to use it as a games/music server machine ;).
Chris
:-)
TrevorD
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So, will this thing only work properly over Zorro, or will the same features all work over the clockport too?
I only recently got a A1200 (had a A500 back in the days and recently wanted to revisit Amiga). I know it has a clockport. But zorro ports requires an extension (and a tower case), correct?
Would be great if this card is on demo on Amiga30 and purchasable there!
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It works on the clockport the same as Zorro... but the bandwidth is much less so you're better off with Zorro if at all possible!
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Someone should hack together an AHI airplay driver, hehe.
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Someone should hack together an AHI airplay driver, hehe.
Let's not.
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MHI Driver Working!
A driver was developed to let programs which are MHI compatible use the Prisma.library and playback through the Prisma Megamix music card. I am pleased to confirm that it is now working with AmigaAmp on the Classic Amiga.
Here is a screenshot of Prisma in my A1200 running AmigaAmp, using the new MHI driver:
(http://www.a-eon.com/images/prisma_megamix_mhi.jpg)
Thanks to Spirantho for his hard work on this driver.
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MHI Driver Working!
That's nice, can we buy the card yet? :lol:
Just kidding, congrats on all your hard work!
Also here's a really dumb question: AHI and MHI. AHI is a retargetable system that allows the use of different audio cards by any application that supports the AHI standard. And MHI is more of a streaming library just for playing back mp3/mpeg streams, correct?
(obviously I don't do a whole lot of audio work on my system, lol)
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Also here's a really dumb question: AHI and MHI. AHI is a retargetable system that allows the use of different audio cards by any application that supports the AHI standard. And MHI is more of a streaming library just for playing back mp3/mpeg streams, correct?
(obviously I don't do a whole lot of audio work on my system, lol)
Not a dumb question at all! But yes, you've pretty much got it. MHI is to hardware decoding as AHI is to audio playback. Write a program to support AHI and it can use any audio card for which there's a driver. Write a program to support MHI and it can use any hardware decoding card for which there's a driver.
Unfortunately, I think the only program that uses MHI is AmigaAmp...
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The two (MHI and AmigaAmp) work well with the MAS player
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Soooo... Can we buy it yet? ;)
(http://m.memegen.com/3tapsu.jpg)
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Soooo... Can we buy it yet? ;)
I'm close to releasing the first game with Prisma support built in...very cool :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShVvAVELTQM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShVvAVELTQM)
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Is it possible to playback MP3 at 320 kps with a 030@25 MHz?
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Soooo... Can we buy it yet? ;)
I'm close to releasing the first game with Prisma support built in...very cool :)
That's amazing, and done on Vaporware to boot!
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Is it possible to playback MP3 at 320 kps with a 030@25 MHz?
I've played 320Kbps MP3 on an unexpanded 68000-based Amiga 1500.... so yes. :)
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I can't wait to buy this card.
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This card only decode mp3? Any plans for AHI drivers?
Sorry if these questions are repeated.
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@kickstart,
From press release:
:VS1063 DSP chip which
can play and encode MP2, MP3,
WMA, OGG, LC-AAC, HE-AAC,
FLAC, IMA, WAV PCM and many
other sound formats "
I believe an AHI driver is in the works. The question is how long.
Chris
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@quiksanz
Thank you for the info... lets see the price, i hope that nobody pay for a mp3 player more than necessary.
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After all, this card was to be two years ago.
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After all, this card was to be two years ago.
How's that joke go, about "Announce a product... wait... blame it on someone else..."? LOL, this card is probably just a glorified MP3 player, but what can I say, my Amiga purchases are a frivolous hobby for the money I'm not using to feed starving children in Africa, right? Release it so I can buy one, LOL. :roflmao:
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You see the problem is after they announce a product and tout it in the forums, it becomes vapor over time, then you first have to contain that vapor and begin the condensation process which requires compressing the vapor and allowing it to expand through a tiny opening; then the vapor begins to form cold drops of liquid that must be captured and purified through a column containing Silica gel (SiO2) and alumina (Al2O3).
As you can see this is a long and arduous process that can go easily wrong if the vapor is allowed to escape back into the atmosphere (again and again).
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The Prisma is not a retargetable audio card, never has been. It's a streamed audio card. We do want to make an AHI driver but it will never be a very good one because it's just not designed for that.
What it is good for is streaming compressed audio, which is much more than just MP3.
Many games use OGG Vorbis, for instance, which is also what I keep my music collection in. With this card you can run things like Odamex with full-quality stereo music as played by very expensive synth equipment, because people have ripped the audio from their expensive setups and supplied it as an OGG for others to enjoy.
I know this because I've done it. It's cool!
I'd like to get Open Transport Tycoon updated with Prisma support, too. That'd be nice. :) It's just a matter of finding the time for me though.
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I'm not sure I see the point of going into this much detail if it never comes to market.
Girls who do this maneuver, are called, a "Tease" in the states.
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Is this card better than the delfina sound card that was available about 2 years ago?
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That's like asking if a Video Toaster is better than a Cybervision 64. :)
It is a streaming audio card, not a general purpose sound card like the Delfina.
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That's like asking if a Video ToastLLer is better than a Cybervision 64. :)
It is a streaming audio card, not a general purpose sound card like the Delfina.
If you kill the system like in most game or demo is it possible to use the card that way? Let's say you put the music in RAM and stream from it without AmigaOS? Any plan to release the hardware spec ? (register etc)
Kamelito
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The chip in the Prisma is well documented, so it's quite easy to use. I'm more than happy to help provide pointers etc. for using it.
You could make your own interrupt routine without the OS and spool from RAM very easily.
I wouldn't recommend killing the system if you can help it though!
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What would be nice is to have it emulated under UAE. That way it would be a lot simpler to play with it than bringing back my 3000 for the basement since I don't have place for it :(
By play with it I mean patch existing games to handle the prisma instead of Paula. Any USB version planned for PC/MAC?
Kamelito
PS nice shop by the way.
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patch existing games to handle the prisma instead of Paula.
The card is meant for decoding audio streams - existing Amiga games do not have audio streams that need decoding. If there's an audio "stream", it's usuallly played straight from CD. without ever going through the Amiga's audio hardware.
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That's like asking if a Video Toaster is better than a Cybervision 64. :)
It is a streaming audio card, not a general purpose sound card like the Delfina.
this is the result of advertising it as a "sound card". no wonder people expect sound card functionality. if it was advised as an audio stream decoder the expectations wouldnt be wrong and people would not ask "stupid questions"..
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What would be nice is to have it emulated under UAE. That way it would be a lot simpler to play with it than bringing back my 3000 for the basement since I don't have place for it :(
By play with it I mean patch existing games to handle the prisma instead of Paula. Any USB version planned for PC/MAC?
Kamelito
PS nice shop by the way.
what would that be good for? uae can decode compressed audio streams or video for that matter with the available 68k software with no problem and with no need of emulating any custom spacialised hardware.
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this is the result of advertising it as a "sound card". no wonder people expect sound card functionality. if it was advised as an audio stream decoder the expectations wouldnt be wrong and people would not ask "stupid questions"..
It's not a stupid question at all, but it has been answered repeatedly in this thread. :)
I agree the thread title may make people think it's like a Delfina or something, but I can't change it, sorry.
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A nice idea may be to take the output of this card and run it to the Aux in on my Prelude. Bet that will rock.
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Or wire the Prelude output into the aux input on the Prisma. :) Best of both worlds. You could chain them with Paula audio too!
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It still could be better at mp3 playback than a delfina. Is it?
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It still could be better at mp3 playback than a delfina. Is it?
I've never used a Delfina but I believe it struggles on high bit rate mp3s... the Prisma will happily play many more formats including 320Kbps mp3.
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what would that be good for? uae can decode compressed audio streams or video for that matter with the available 68k software with no problem and with no need of emulating any custom spacialised hardware.
The aim is using UAE as a dev env of course it's to improve the music of existing games for the so called classic.
Kamelito
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The aim is using UAE as a dev env of course it's to improve the music of existing games for the so called classic.
It would be easy to make a Prisma.library that actually redirected to a software mpeg player. You wouldn't want to lose the OS though in that case.
Arcade games wouldn't benefit easily but something like Monkey Island could be done, I guess. Same with Sierra games.
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It would be easy to make a Prisma.library that actually redirected to a software mpeg player. You wouldn't want to lose the OS though in that case.
Arcade games wouldn't benefit easily but something like Monkey Island could be done, I guess. Same with Sierra games.
Monkey Island, Sierra games and Eye of Beholder would be easy to support by adding the Prisma.library to ScummVM.
:)
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Or wire the Prelude output into the aux input on the Prisma. :) Best of both worlds. You could chain them with Paula audio too!
Is the Aux input on the board or backplate?
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This sounds like an exciting card.
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Is the Aux input on the board or backplate?
I can't say, I afraid. Mine just has a wire as it's a prototype. :)
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Monkey Island, Sierra games and Eye of Beholder would be easy to support by adding the Prisma.library to ScummVM.
:)
Well you'll then need a more powerful Amiga than the Amiga version.
Kamelito
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Well you'll then need a more powerful Amiga than the Amiga version.
Kamelito
Not sure what you mean?
ScummVM runs these games just fine on my Classic Amiga
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Not sure what you mean?
ScummVM runs these games just fine on my Classic Amiga
I played Monkey Island on my A500 back then so no 060 just a bare 68000 with 1MB. But hey life begin at 100 mips ;)
Kamelito
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I played Monkey Island on my A500 back then so no 060 just a bare 68000 with 1MB. But hey life begin at 100 mips ;)
Kamelito
Life ends at 100 mips, as that's the approximate speed of some of the fastest Amiga's (with real 68060's of course). Chase over!
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Life ends at 100 mips, as that's the approximate speed of some of the fastest Amiga's (with real 68060's of course). Chase over!
I got an email from NASA today (I'm on some strange mailing lists), it was hyping how the avionics in the new Orion capsule could do 400 MIPS. My first thought was "hey, that's only 4x the speed of an Amiga". ;)
Edit: It's a PowerPC (http://www.geek.com/science/nasas-orion-spacecraft-runs-on-a-12-year-old-single-core-processor-from-the-ibook-g3-1611132/)! So now all you smart-asses can boast about how your Amiga uses the same processor as the Orion, LOL. :D
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I got an email from NASA today (I'm on some strange mailing lists), it was hyping how the avionics in the new Orion capsule could do 400 MIPS. My first thought was "hey, that's only 4x the speed of an Amiga". ;)
Edit: It's a PowerPC (http://www.geek.com/science/nasas-orion-spacecraft-runs-on-a-12-year-old-single-core-processor-from-the-ibook-g3-1611132/)! So now all you smart-asses can boast about how your Amiga uses the same processor as the Orion, LOL. :D
PowerPC 750FX is a G5 IIRC so it's more a Morphos thing :)
Kamelito
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It's says its a G3 in the article.
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Guys, can we get back on topic.
@Thread, backplates in production now, so only software left to finish.
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PowerPC 750FX is a G5 IIRC so it's more a Morphos thing :)
Kamelito
You're thinking 970. 750FX is a G3 and was used in the AmigaONE XE/G3.
The figure of 400 MIPS matches the specification for the RAD750 which is a radiation hardened version of the G3 rated at 200Mhz. It is used in other NASA projects such the Curiosity rover and would seem the obvious choice for a space craft.
On topic.
Has this card been tested with the various clockport adapters and cards with clockports out there. Could be useful if all your Zorro slots are full but you have a Budha or original X-Surf.
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At the moment it's only using the A1200's clockport address, but if you need me to add another address I don't see a problem with it.
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At the moment it's only using the A1200's clockport address, but if you need me to add another address I don't see a problem with it.
I was just wondering on the behalf of others since I only have a CD32 and Minimig now anyway.
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I was just wondering on the behalf of others since I only have a CD32 and Minimig now anyway.
Im sure someone was testing it on a buddah clockport.
Will check.
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I am in this situation on my A2000 : Zorro and ISA slots are full but I have a Deneb card with its clockport. And I can't imagine I have to pull a card to plug the Prisma.
Thanks.
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I'd also be curious to know if thes clockports on Z2/Z3 cards offer greater bandwidth than the A1200 clockport.
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Just noticed this picture posted on their Facebook a week ago. Looks like we're getting closer to a release? :)
Edit: Interesting that that appears to be an A1200 knockout port interface. I assume they'll also have a standard expansion port option for big box systems?
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New hardware audio decoder for Amiga
https://youtu.be/8L_OUSNRVfU
Decodes MP3 (MPEG 1 & 2 audio layer III) (CBR +VBR +ABR);
WMA 4.0/4.1/7/8/9 all profiles (5-384kbit/s);
WAV (PCM + IMA ADPCM);
General MIDI / SP-MIDI files
Encodes 16-bit LPCM & IMA ADPCM from microphone or line input
Streaming support
Bass and treble controls
High-quality on-chip stereo DAC
5.5 KiB On-chip RAM for user code / data
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So it will roll out in 2016?
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So it will roll out in 2016?
I'm voting for 2018. ;)
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@Oldsmobile_Mike,
Darn, low balled it, again! ;-)
-
That board looks like a generic Chinese product which can be had for a few bucks so the only trick is to interface it to the Amiga it seems.
Nice!
EDIT: found on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/VS1003-Player-Module-800mA-2-288/dp/B00GYV6AGC
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looks like theres quite a few different types . one looks like it has an rs232 interface !
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There's very little on the player module board other than the VS1003 IC. The VLSI chips are really easy to use if you can source them. It shouldn't take long for spidi to integrate the VLSI chip onto the clock port CPLD SPI controller board. How to get the audio out of the Amiga is the remaining issue, either a headphone jack through a hole in the case or some kind of connection into the existing Amiga audio out circuits. The software is looking ok already.
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There's very little on the player module board other than the VS1003 IC. The VLSI chips are really easy to use if you can source them. It shouldn't take long for spidi to integrate the VLSI chip onto the clock port CPLD SPI controller board. How to get the audio out of the Amiga is the remaining issue, either a headphone jack through a hole in the case or some kind of connection into the existing Amiga audio out circuits. The software is looking ok already.
doesnt look like like any much less than the hardware being subject here. simply a decoder chip attached to amiga bus plus some playback control software. the genuine thread concerning the polish option seems to be here:
http://www.ppa.pl/forum/elektronika/33114/moja-platforma-badawcza-z-interfejsem-spi#m482618
but whats interesting is a resulting initiative being discussed here:
http://www.ppa.pl/forum/elektronika/33115/kanapka-fpga-dla-a1200#m483203
that may become an alternative to vampire accelerator and some other fpga based periferial enchancements for an a1200. and it seems that if anything be achieved, it remains open source. also looks like some technical capacity is given.
-
but whats interesting is a resulting initiative being discussed here:
Gah. I kind of wish people would stop beginning "new initiatives" and work together to finish some of the ones we already have. :(
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Gah. I kind of wish people would stop beginning "new initiatives" and work together to finish some of the ones we already have. :(
this time it is a proper initiative of people who intend to be open and "work together". other than that you cant force people do things for you the way you like.
i have posted the link as a matter of interest, not to satisfy any demands.
-
Better support this people than the latest overpriced products.
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@Oldsmobile_Mike,
Darn, low balled it, again! ;-)
Any update? 2019? Anybody want to go with 2019? :D
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Any update? 2019? Anybody want to go with 2019? :D
I'm goin with 4138!
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Any update? 2019? Anybody want to go with 2019? :D
At this point lets say 2020!
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I'm goin with 4138!
It'll go perfect with my Amiga X90000!
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@Oldsmobile_Mike,
Looking like vapor now, head down.
Alright you guys over there, yeah you, the powers that be, fix your little problems and light this rocket!
Not the most polite way to ask but we need some of the right stuff about now ;-)
PS: promised here
http://www.a-eon.com/PDF/News_Release_Prisma_Megamix.pdf
Almost 2.5 years now.
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Almost 2.5 years now.
2.5 years ago I had my cart loaded with goodies on AmigaKit's website, only waiting on this card to be available before I punched "checkout". I was going to order it all at once, figured "how long could it take before it's in stock"?
I never did bother to go back to complete my order for the rest of that stuff, either. :(
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I too feel your pain. Wow 2 years ago. However they are on to new stuff like Radiance. O sorry that was hailed at amiwest 2014, ooh thats right, sorry that did not ship either. Well and the list goes on and on. I do think that they will come however someday. In the mean time we can all start waiting for the Enhancer Software. Funny thing 2 weeks ago I received Amiga Future 119 and the entire back cover states " Enhancer software" PowerPC "Now Shipping". Then a week ago there was an update from amigakit letting us all know it is shipping shortly? Shortly but how can this be when a week prior Amiga Future proudly states "Now Shipping". If I am not mistaken that was paid for up front 2 months before it ever shipped. Very, very, very, very BAD business practice, poor planing, bad management, and clearly a real lack of leadership. Soon I will be holding out for 20 or 30 GREAT products. Remember that they will be great when they ship. Sorry to dump but this is coming from a guy that has spent "over" $20,000.00 starting in March 2013 including a few thousand to developers to help encourage them. I am close to done. If you don't deliver don't ask for money! That list is very small now. I am sick of people misusing my trust and my investment.
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Fortunately all will be forgotten when we soon will have the X5000, A1220 and ALICE laptop....... ahum
-
I Sure hope and pray !!!!
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Fortunately all will be forgotten when we soon will have the X5000, A1220 and ALICE laptop....... ahum
Those do nothing for classic users. :(
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It'll go perfect with my Amiga X90000!
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/68/7d/7c687debe61f4b5aca1f1465811bbd05.jpg)
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(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/68/7d/7c687debe61f4b5aca1f1465811bbd05.jpg)
I laughed out loud.
-
Two more weeks....
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Sorry to dump but this is coming from a guy that has spent "over" $20,000.00 starting in March 2013 including a few thousand to developers to help encourage them.
sounds like you have a serious problem. alas, its a bit late now, you might have listened to reason before.
I am close to done.
seems so.
If you don't deliver don't ask for money! That list is very small now. I am sick of people misusing my trust and my investment.
now there is anopther teaser though, maybe this time you should trust them:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40426&forum=2&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0
remember they have bought ppaint and there is an additional brush tooltip bar now worth well what it costs to purchase a copy these days (i dont know how much, never bought a thing from them).
I Sure hope and pray !!!
i doubt it will help, but why not, as long as everything else fails. this attitude used to have an established tradition in this society anyway.
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now there is anopther teaser though, maybe this time you should trust them:
They're making an announcement that they're going to have an announcement in another month? Aw man, you gotta be kidding me. It's like a carnival, only with less clowns. ;)
Kidding, kidding, but seriously now folks... :p
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They're making an announcement that they're going to have an announcement in another month? Aw man, you gotta be kidding me. It's like a carnival, only with less clowns. ;)
Kidding, kidding, but seriously now folks... :p
gotta be kidding yourself if you have ever trusted that to start with. now, im really in a popcorn mode, what concerns this other trip, if i was into popcorn at all, that is.
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So, let me get this straight. They are going to announce something. Something that they will release somewhere in an undefined future, like all the other "announced" stuff.
And now they even pre-announce the announcement so they can postpone the actual announcement indefinitely as well...????
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So, let me get this straight. They are going to announce something. Something that they will release somewhere in an undefined future, like all the other "announced" stuff.
And now they even pre-announce the announcement so they can postpone the actual announcement indefinitely as well...????
Yes, you've got it.
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Oh nice so another thing finished being pipe dream?
Nice... I am glad I did not "pre order" my X5000 aka overpriced PowerMac G5. Hey, here is a hint for you guys at A-Eon, maybe you guys should focus on actually finishing something? I know it's hard to actually finish anything when corporation has ADHD but no actual users will take you serious when all your hardware is "not available", "imminent pre order state", or is being announced to be announce.
And for a moment I was hoping that there is going to be something actually available from you guys.
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Ha. I did not realize that was my first post. :)
Nice way to start my Amiga journey, from rant about empty promises.
Sounds like 90's all over again... :)
But seriously, nothing pisses off people more than nice hardware being announced and after YEARS of waiting never released.
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@A2666
Welcome to Amiga.org, your first post here is most unconventional, most folks use it to introduce themselves. Amiga.org is a friendly place and I would encourage you to open a new thread and tell us about yourself, for example, what brought you to Amiga.org, what Amiga systems do you own, and what your interests are in the Amiga world.
I will correct one of your points: the X5000 is not available to "pre-order" and the hardware is already finished, manufactured and ready to go. Just awaiting Hyperion to finish the OS. If you want to discuss this point, I, once again, suggest opening a new thread would be better than derailing this thread.
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@A2666
Welcome to Amiga.org, your first post here is most unconventional, most folks use it to introduce themselves. Amiga.org is a friendly place and I would encourage you to open a new thread and tell us about yourself, for example, what brought you to Amiga.org, what Amiga systems do you own, and what your interests are in the Amiga world.
I will correct one of your points: the X5000 is not available to "pre-order" and the hardware is already finished, manufactured and ready to go. Just awaiting Hyperion to finish the OS. If you want to discuss this point, I, once again, suggest opening a new thread would be better than derailing this thread.
I kinda feel like you are the one who's derailing thread here. It was about sound card that was very promising, well 3 years ago. And now it's not. Because there is no sound card.
And for your information I am here mainly like everybody else to discuss Amiga. What brought me here? Actually I was looking for hardware for my A2000. Any other questions I might answer for you?
As far as X5000 I don't feel it's even worth opening thread for it. :)
Now I have question for you: So what about that Sound Card? Is it going to be released or not? I just spent 1200$ on building A2000 and sound card is last thing I want.
So simply should I wait or it's pointless and I should just buy something else?
That is the only thing I need to know, just simple answer.
I want to purchase hardware I need and enjoy it. Preferably without 2 years waiting period and "Pre-order Imminent. Please check back soon !" note...
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This is not a soundcard in the sense you think propably
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=71174&highlight=prism&page=13
"This card is an audio stream decoder, not a sound card, so I think it's very unlikely that it will support AHI at all. Would be a million times more useful than decoding MP3s on an Amiga though..."
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No matter what you might think of development pace, atleast Aeonkit do their best with limited resources, to develop the roadmap they prefere.
Thats more than most of us do.
Yes, I would love to have both a clockport expander and A1200 soundcard/Prisma, but I also realise that Aeonkit has probarly taken on TOO many things at the same time. Which in turn slows down each project. Atleast thats my impression.
I remember Trevors comment during his AmiWest presentation where he mentioned the danger of "featurecreep", always wanting to perfect or add features to a product, to the point where it grinds delivery to a grinding halt.
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If you are content with announcements and don't want the actual product, then good for you. They said it went to production in 2014, NovaCoder had videos showcasing the card back the same year. You can understand why people are grumbling.
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Earlier Ive commented about Prisma and the fact that Nova used it back in 2014.
I guess what I dont find helpful is the negative tone that some people insist on.
I would have bought Prisma asap, but realised that if I want something, go for whats available. MAS Player is one option, which I went for.
At THIS point in time, Aeonkit might have waited so long that the Prisma card is already obsolete due to Vampire. Hounding them over taking on too many tasks isnt very helpful, since the lack of sales will hit that point home.
Ofcourse, if Vampire and Prisma together will increase overall expirience, then there might still be a market for the card.
Again, Im not particularly in favour of negativity.
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As I understand it Prisma Music card helps slow main processor to decode resource intense sound formats. That only makes sense with slow hardware, Vampire is also promised to have 16bit sound, together with fast main processor on vampire Prism makes no sense anymore except collectors who see FPGA as not "real" enough. But that market becomes smaller and smaller in future.
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As I understand it Prisma Music card helps slow main processor to decode resource intense sound formats. That only makes sense with slow hardware, Vampire is also promised to have 16bit sound, together with fast main processor on vampire Prism makes no sense anymore except collectors who see FPGA as not "real" enough. But that market becomes smaller and smaller in future.
Yup, thats how I understand it too.
That said, maybe there might be developments softwarewise that will help improve performance with a Vampire/Prisma combination. The less work the Vampire has to do, I guess will be a good thing? :P
If Prisma was sold in 2015 after NovaCoders demostration, they would probarly have sold healthy numbers. Now, I guess it will be intresting to see how AeonKit can advance the product to the point it makes sense to customers...
Alot of assumptions based on too little information.
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Earlier Ive commented about Prisma and the fact that Nova used it back in 2014.
I guess what I dont find helpful is the negative tone that some people insist on.
I would have bought Prisma asap, but realised that if I want something, go for whats available. MAS Player is one option, which I went for.
At THIS point in time, Aeonkit might have waited so long that the Prisma card is already obsolete due to Vampire. Hounding them over taking on too many tasks isnt very helpful, since the lack of sales will hit that point home.
Ofcourse, if Vampire and Prisma together will increase overall expirience, then there might still be a market for the card.
Again, Im not particularly in favour of negativity.
I see. So it's the negative forum posts that prevents Prisma from released. This seems to be a recurring theme in amiga-land. I wish people have shut their trap... :(
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Yup, thats how I understand it too.
That said, maybe there might be developments softwarewise that will help improve performance with a Vampire/Prisma combination. The less work the Vampire has to do, I guess will be a good thing? :P
If Prisma was sold in 2015 after NovaCoders demostration, they would probarly have sold healthy numbers. Now, I guess it will be intresting to see how AeonKit can advance the product to the point it makes sense to customers...
Alot of assumptions based on too little information.
I am not sure if a combination of Prisma and Vampire finally makes sense. Do not forget that everything will move to Vampire in future including chipset emulation and processor. Finally only component used from A600 are keyboard and perhaps some of the interfaces. The same will be true for other amiga models. If it is possible to use addons like Prisma is unknown to me and if it really can be used additional. Has Prisma its own RAM and how much? If there is not much it would propably block the system more than it helps. But that is only guessing in the blue now :)
I have shortly looked at press release... no mentioning of RAM on the board, only of the DSP processor.
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Its not what Im saying, and you know it.
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I see. So it's the negative forum posts that prevents Prisma from released. This seems to be a recurring theme in amiga-land. I wish people have shut their trap... :(
Its not what Im saying, and you know it.
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Its not what Im saying, and you know it.
Bszili on amigworld about Tabor:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40994&forum=33&start=140&viewmode=flat&order=0
"@Spectre660
That's not really an argument, the OS4 h/w "market" is already pretty saturated."
sounds not positive either :laugh1:
Prisma simply should have been sold 2014. We have 2016 now and the market is changing, bad luck
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I sure do. Just as you know that people who would like to buy the Prisma are not "hounding" A-Eon or amigakit, and expecting a positive tone from them is beyond ridiculous.
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Bszili on amigworld about Tabor:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40994&forum=33&start=140&viewmode=flat&order=0
"@Spectre660
That's not really an argument, the OS4 h/w "market" is already pretty saturated."
sounds not positive either :laugh1:
Prisma simply should have been sold 2014. We have 2016 now and the market is changing, bad luck
Why does the existence of Vampire make offloading audio decoding from the CPU a bad idea? :confused:
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The problem as they told us is the software, I don't really understand, even if the developer is not up to the task, they could have switch to another one and still have delivered long ago.
Kamelito
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Hi
We have switched a few months ago to two new developers. Hopefully we will have some updates from their hard work.
The hardware has been complete and is manufactured for some time.
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Why does the existence of Vampire make offloading audio decoding from the CPU a bad idea? :confused:
offloading compressed audio streams that only works with certain formats and if software provides support for a dedicated and expectedly rather expensive device doesnt make so much sense f you have a cheap general purpose accelerator.
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Why does the existence of Vampire make offloading audio decoding from the CPU a bad idea? :confused:
Because of the bottleneck created by addressing this card outside of the fpga.
It is actually going to slow accelerators like the Vampire down.
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Hi
We have switched a few months ago to two new developers. Hopefully we will have some updates from their hard work.
The hardware has been complete and is manufactured for some time.
"Hardware has been complete and is manufactured..."
Scary.
Just how much Aeon hardware is beeing stockpiled right now?
X5000 boards, Prisma boards, Tabor boards....
Instead of throwing more money at hardware development, isn't it time to push software development a little harder?
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isn't it time to push software development a little harder?
Did you read our AmigaDeveloper.com Team announcement? We have been heavily investing in software development with a team of 17 software developers working earnestly.
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Hi
We have switched a few months ago to two new developers. Hopefully we will have some updates from their hard work.
The hardware has been complete and is manufactured for some time.
So I will be the first one to say again. Sounds like there is no point in waiting.
Sorry for being "negative" but if you tell people that:
1. You made hardware (but we can't buy it)
2. You have changed developers (which is never a good sign)
3. Hopefully you will have updates (well if only that hardware was made of hopes)
then that does not encourage customers to wait or even consider buying that stuff.
Well thank you for response. I will consider different options for my Amiga then.
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What puzzles me is why Prisma havent been released for sale even if the software aint 100% complete. In todays day and age its no hassle to download updated software via Internet whenever the developers have tweaked issues/bugs.
Since Novacoder demostrated it in working condition back in 2014, it obviously had reached a point where it could be released.
Its a bit like Vampire; its being sold while still in development, with the customer 100% in the known there are aspects that aint working as it should/work in progress etc.
Personally I bought MAS Player, even tho I wanted Prisma. Since Ive already ordered Vampire, Im unsure if I will dish out for Prisma unless it can be shown to me that a Vampire and Prisma combination makes sense.
Im sure Im not the only one.
THAT said, I hope there will be such advantages if you already have stockpiles of hardware lying around.
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What puzzles me is why Prisma havent been released for sale even if the software aint 100% complete. In todays day and age its no hassle to download updated software via Internet whenever the developers have tweaked issues/bugs.
Exactly.
I would still like to buy one, although I'll admit my enthusiasm has been somewhat dimmed by the long delays. Hope y'all get your dev problems sorted out soon! :)
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What could be interesting is patching OS friendly games so they could use mp3 versions from say CDTV or CD32 or any others CDDA or MP3 versions. This could add more atmosphere to the game, but, it'll be a lot easier to do so under emulation and then test on the real HW. So adding a support for the card under UAE would be great.
Kamelito
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Did you read our AmigaDeveloper.com Team announcement? We have been heavily investing in software development with a team of 17 software developers working earnestly.
Yes, I am impressed with that.
AmigaKit and Aeon are obviously sincere in trying to promote software development.
It is a pity that they are relying on Hyperion for OS development when Hyperion's primary developers admit to only working on the project "a couple of hours a week".
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It is a pity that they are relying on Hyperion for OS development when Hyperion's primary developers admit to only working on the project "a couple of hours a week".
Let's hope that they're not doing it on purpose.
What all this mean is that if you pay good money to good developers they deliver.
Kamelito
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Let's hope that they're not doing it on purpose.
what purpose would that be? to alienate the user base? cmon. thats simply the reality of the situation and the question to admit this reality to yourself.
What all this mean is that if you pay good money to good developers they deliver.
i think its pretty incomputable alas. in a real world if someone is not up to task he might be replaced. there are people writing drivers in question of days, but they need to be enthusiastic or at least genuinely interested. also the amiga hardware may have some additional quirks only few people suspect or know about, or even them need yet to discover those. this was the issue with deneb and dma on zorro3 bus. even m.b. who was also in charge of the hardware here, wasnt aware of some corner case/bug in zorro3 implementation until it was debugged in practice with my very modest involvement as an early adopter and tester (among others).
apparently this is not the situation here. according to amigakit the replacement coders have been appointed months ago. at his time novacoder reported unresolved stability issues before he left. bugs like that remind me of the initially apparently random dma lockups with deneb, but it needs skilled people with amiga experience to get hold of such indices. personally i would declare this project dead/obsolete. it likely wont even pay back, the insistance on it is futile. better councel next time and some applicable feedback with the community (not just a symbolic one) would solve a lot, but i doubt can arrive yet.
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Let's hope that they're not doing it on purpose.
What all this mean is that if you pay good money to good developers they deliver.
Kamelito
My guess would be that they are devoting as much time to it as is financially practical.
If they were paid to work on it full time...
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What puzzles me is why Prisma havent been released for sale even if the software aint 100% complete. In todays day and age its no hassle to download updated software via Internet whenever the developers have tweaked issues/bugs.
Since Novacoder demostrated it in working condition back in 2014, it obviously had reached a point where it could be released.
Its a bit like Vampire; its being sold while still in development, with the customer 100% in the known there are aspects that aint working as it should/work in progress etc.
I wondered the same way back here:
02-08-2015, 07:17 PM Post #222,
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66147&page=12
Read following post please!
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So I will be the first one to say again. Sounds like there is no point in waiting.
Sorry for being "negative" but if you tell people that:
1. You made hardware (but we can't buy it)
2. You have changed developers (which is never a good sign)
3. Hopefully you will have updates (well if only that hardware was made of hopes)
then that does not encourage customers to wait or even consider buying that stuff.
Well thank you for response. I will consider different options for my Amiga then.
Obviously it was mistakenly announced early (maybe to much excitement). I said we need everything sorted before announcing anything (or very close to sorting). This is generally the approach adopted now, theres lots of stuff being worked on that isn't announced.
If only the world was perfect, there would not have been any problems and it would have been released already (and this thread would never have existed), to my knowledge there is no release date set as yet.
1. If we didn't say it was made and showed pictures, it would be called vapourware.
2. Why a bad sign, people are only human and maybe there are real life problems.
3. Unfortunately, it can't be helped. We are only telling the truth, no lies and straight up.
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Why does the existence of Vampire make offloading audio decoding from the CPU a bad idea? :confused:
If your CPU is fast enough you dont have to buy it because your CPU is too slow. Offloading decoding can be still good idea if you need saved capacity for something but advantage of CPU bound decoding is that you can use existing players.
In AmiNetRadio we never supported MASPlayer (similar to this one but it was just simple MP3 player) because it was not possible control output from application or use visualizers. Neither it is possible wrap this hardware to mpega.library because mpega.library is only for decoding while MAS Player and A-eon music card does both decoding and playing and reading back decoded audio data would be too slow. Both have advantages and disadvantages, Amiga audio output is limited to 8-bit only (or 14-bit, but that is sort of hack), while music cards use modern codecs.
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If your CPU is fast enough you dont have to buy it because your CPU is too slow. Offloading decoding can be still good idea if you need saved capacity for something but advantage of CPU bound decoding is that you can use existing players.
In AmiNetRadio we never supported MASPlayer (similar to this one but it was just simple MP3 player) because it was not possible control output from application or use visualizers. Neither it is possible wrap this hardware to mpega.library because mpega.library is only for decoding while MAS Player and A-eon music card does both decoding and playing and reading back decoded audio data would be too slow. Both have advantages and disadvantages, Amiga audio output is limited to 8-bit only (or 14-bit, but that is sort of hack), while music cards use modern codecs.
Its one of the reasons why I might find the card enticing even if I get Vampire. Every drop of added performance/offloading from CPU is a good thing.
With regards to not announcing available hardware that is still being worked on software side;
Again, take Vampire. People recive their cards, and programs crash/doesnt work, until a later core update or tweaks done to programs. The difference is that Apollo-Team got a IRC channel where they (and people in general with depth of knowledge) hang out answering questions when they have time.
That way people clearly understand and accept the limitations of the product in its current state.
In addition people keep asking for additional features, which like on forums, sometimes spins off into unrealistic dreams. Other users or developers bring those people back to earth quickly.
Imho this approach defuses the "tension" that comes from waiting for any bit of information about x product.
I realise Apollo-Teams approach to information is kind of unortodox and unsusually open.
But it seems to work :)
Btw, will the Card work on A600 with 604n that got 2 clockports (and eventually a Vampire)?
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I said we need everything sorted before announcing anything (or very close to sorting). This is generally the approach adopted now, theres lots of stuff being worked on that isn't announced.
and yet you announce warp3d nova that looks as close to completion now as prisma megarmix at its time. juat a small bit away. the question is why that kind of bits is such an issue in your case.
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I realise Apollo-Teams approach to information is kind of unortodox and unsusually open.
its not unusually open. and they had to learn their lesson as well, even though nothing natami/vampire/apollo people did in terms of communication was ever close to the degree of secrecy and failed announcements we experienced with the companies related primarly to os4. what concerns amiga projects be it hardware or software there is another sort of tradition, being open, and i mean more open than what you actually mention. just to name aros, projects where strim is involved (030 decelerator, net-bsd and the ppc accelerator for pci bus expansion), hd-rec, pfs3, gba1000 and so on.. just to name a few out of the top of my head.
to be fair, it isnt considerably difficult to imagine the model of communication apollo tam is involving.
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I love the weekly changelog summaries from AROS, it really shows how the project is progressing, and is useful in that we can tell when certain reported issues are solved.
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and yet you announce warp3d nova that looks as close to completion now as prisma megarmix at its time. juat a small bit away. the question is why that kind of bits is such an issue in your case.
Fedup of Harware being released with no or unfinished drivers. Spose you could blame me for the hardware not being on sale yet, as I would rather the whole package, ready to use.
I know exactly what will happen if we released with a basic beta driver. People would complain.
Nova is completely different, why you mention that is beyond me.
@Thread, any chance we can actually try and stick to topic. I have seen 3 threads dragged way of topic and it seems to be same people over and over.
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@F0LLETT
Thats fair enough, wanting to be 100% ready with supporting software.
My question was at the end of my last post so I guess it vanished in the "noise";
Will the Card work on A600 with 604n that got 2 clockports (and eventually a Vampire)?
I guess the Vampire addition is a open question unless you have a Vampire to test with.
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@F0LLETT
Thats fair enough, wanting to be 100% ready with supporting software.
My question was at the end of my last post so I guess it vanished in the "noise";
Will the Card work on A600 with 604n that got 2 clockports (and eventually a Vampire)?
I guess the Vampire addition is a open question unless you have a Vampire to test with.
I can't see why not, something to test.
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@F0LLETT
Thats fair enough, wanting to be 100% ready with supporting software.
My question was at the end of my last post so I guess it vanished in the "noise";
Will the Card work on A600 with 604n that got 2 clockports (and eventually a Vampire)?
I guess the Vampire addition is a open question unless you have a Vampire to test with.
the question is would it make sense to combine with Vampire?
how is it integrated? Does it operate independently or does it block execution of program until done? If it blocks program and is slower than the "processor" on Vampire FPGA it could slow the system. Perhaps someone could explain how it is (or is planned to) be integrated and how software would access it. If processor is slower for that task than the card then of course it always makes sense.
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the question is would it make sense to combine with Vampire?
how is it integrated? Does it operate independently or does it block execution of program until done? If it blocks program and is slower than the "processor" on Vampire FPGA it could slow the system. Perhaps someone could explain how it is (or is planned to) be integrated and how software would access it. If processor is slower for that task than the card then of course it always makes sense.
Indeed thats the question, something itix adressed to a point above.
For example, if people use DosBox/PCTask or Macemulators, every drop of performance is nice to have available. Or other heavy processes, like movies, future games or demos where coders can use mp3s as part of the program without heavy impact on the system.
Intresting aspects that could make or break a purchase for some. I enjoy my MAS player, but if there are clear advantages with Prisma even after Vampire is part of the equation, then Ill probarly dish out for it.
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Not as if everyone will have Vampire2... :rolleyes:
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Anyhow, I used to have (maybe I still have) MAS player, but I don't think I ever used the software that came with it. Sometimes, just getting the hardware out the door along with some documentation is enough to have drivers materialize.
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the question is would it make sense to combine with Vampire?
how is it integrated? Does it operate independently or does it block execution of program until done? If it blocks program and is slower than the "processor" on Vampire FPGA it could slow the system. Perhaps someone could explain how it is (or is planned to) be integrated and how software would access it. If processor is slower for that task than the card then of course it always makes sense.
Indeed thats the question, something itix adressed to a point above.
For example, if people use DosBox/PCTask or Macemulators, every drop of performance is nice to have available. Or other heavy processes, like movies, future games or demos where coders can use mp3s as part of the program without heavy impact on the system.
Intresting aspects that could make or break a purchase for some. I enjoy my MAS player, but if there are clear advantages with Prisma even after Vampire is part of the equation, then Ill probarly dish out for it.
It will multitask fine.
As I do not have a Vampire, I could not say.
I can't answer everything, as I have not had any time to play with card fully.
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I know exactly what will happen if we released with a basic beta driver. People would complain.
Amigans complain?
Heck, you know they are going to do that anyway. ;)
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@thread
*cough*
http://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=Prisma
-- eliyahu
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*cough*
http://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=Prisma
And? Three years since the original announcement and still not available anywhere for purchase. At this point I suspect no one even cares anymore...
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@eliyahu
You noticed ;) Watch this space...
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My interest in this card has waned somewhat due to the existence of Vampire, and for wedge amiga's its crippled by the clockport bus.
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I trust this will actually work out this time since a coder from a1k has taken care of the driver. However he wont do miracles as well. The question remains if its worth to sacrify a sparce expansion port just for a streaming decoder.