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Author Topic: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution  (Read 10532 times)

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Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« on: October 18, 2005, 01:20:25 AM »
Quote
Please provide links to these "well known facts". The links you posted in no way show the Gamecube is profitable at any price point.


Whats the point? At least half of what this guy says is blatently wrong anyway.
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2005, 08:40:44 PM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
Troll, your article is from January of 2002 and since then Nintendo has removed the DV out connector and the Serial Port 1 and redesigned the board and are on Rev C now.  Look in there quartely earnings reports for the past 3 years.

I have a Rev A GC with Both serial ports and the DV out connector for which I bought the component adapter capbles and play most of my games in progressive scan mode on my 50" DLP HDTV.

My modded 'Cube purchase in August of THIS year is the Rev C. board and doesn't have the DV-out circuitry or connector and the same goes for Serial Port 1.  Serial Port 2 is still there for the Broadband or Modem adaper.  As is the HIGH SPEED parrallel port for the GBA player.

Sony has done similar cost-cutting measures with the PS2 over the years.


Actually i did a google search and came up with several pages from 2003 and 2004 indicating that Nintendo may have taken a small loss on the console. Again, speculation, because the only people who really know would be the execs at Nintendo.

I wont bother posting links because i know your gonna call me a troll, or maybe even something more creative, like "Ass Clown", or "Gay" . lol

Who knows, maybe you really do know the answer definitively. Maybe you flew to japan dressed up like mario and socially engineered your way into Nintendo HQ and checked the books yourself.

Anyway, have fun reading your elite nintendo news from your special "News Wire".
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2005, 03:32:07 PM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
In Oct of 2003 is when the price got lowered to $99
http://in.tech.yahoo.com/030924/137/28002.html

In late 2003/early 2004, they got rid of the progressive scan component and the gc went to profitability again from losing about $7-$8 for a couple of months.

So you are all ass-clowns as the GC has been profitable for 95+% of it's existence.  And that's the real point - isn't it?

As Revolution will be...

And if you really do the numbers...the GC was (as you claim) losing money for the better part of that fiscal year yet Nintendo doubled it's profits.  Coincidentally, when the GC went down to $99, it enjoyed a healthy and sustained sales boost.

Funny thing, prepubescent, is that the article you posted contradicts many of the claims about Nintendo hurting that you made in my 'potential PPC Amiga real cheap' thread which further iconifies your status as the Troll-king.

You claim I am reading between the lines!
You just posted an article telling you the GC was profitable even at $150 and would only be in single digit losses @ $99...
...that in of itself means you don't know what you are talkng about as you claimed it was always sold at a loss - it was your statement that started this not mine...allow me to quote you here:
Quote

Not true. Due to poor sales, production cost went up early on in the GCNs lifecycle. Couple that with price cuts to stay competitive and it's been losing Nintendo a ton of money. At ~$150 they were breaking even, at $100 they are losing money. Now at $100 with a pack-in and (new release) first party title they are losing even more.


...then Ninendo puts out the Rev C board with no Progressive Scan circuitry or connector in order to make it profitable again about 2 months after the price drop to $99...and I am reading between the lines and you are a bunch of know-it-alls.

I.A.C.'s - idiot ass clowns

who double as trolls...


Just immagine if you put all this energy into an AROS bounty, we would have a reliable installer and a firefox port... Geez
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2005, 10:08:18 AM »
Dang, another GC controller bit the dust. This time a pelican transparent controller with a red glowing outline. This is at least the 12th controller ive broken in a fit of rage. I usually get pissed off and wing the controller by the cord and sling it into the GC. The sheer ammount of plastic shards that hit me and my surroundings was most impressive this time. There were even plastic bits in my open beer.

Spiderman 2, effin game, I cant get past the first boss. I  have several games, i'm stuck in all of them. Levels that are just too f'n hard to beat. I suppose if i were a professional gamer it wouldnt be an issue.

on most PC games you have differing levels of hardness you can select. They should adopt this on console games. When i was 12 i didnt seem to mind banging my head into the wall trying to complete some frickin level. Now that i'm almost 30 i want to murder the developers who wrote the game.
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2005, 11:11:03 PM »
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log:
Oct 2003 - Nintendo production had been stopped due to low demand so a $99 is put into place. SUPRISE - sales jump higher than expcected.
Jan 2004 - Rev C Gamecubes are manufactured to meet demand.
May 2004 - Shipments hit the US market
Jun 2004 - 650,000 units shipped last quater and profits double for Nintendo

remember if they are on a store shelf, the manufacturer has already been PAID.

I can always get a life, can trolls EVER stop being trolls?


I got my gamecube from radioshack for 99.00. Now if nintendo got that whole 99 bucks, they might have made a profit. But they didnt, RadioShack took a cut. After all, they have advertising, stores and land to pay for, sales staff to pay, management overhead, etc. So radio shack makes say 25 bucks.  Now theres almost always a middle man, ie the distributor that doles the machines out to the retail outlets. They have buildings/land/staff etc. So say they make 10 bucks off that device.  Of course the device had to get to the distributor, probably via some sort of shipping company, who charges a fee, say 5 bucks. Of course, every time money shifts hands,  the government takes a cut, sales tax, import/export taxes. Lets say uncle sam gets 2 bucks. So with our most likely generous figure here, Nintendo makes 57 dollars on that gamecube.

Nintendo probably cant make a gamecube for 57 bucks. Lets say they can though, for arguments sake. Now take into account HQ sales staff, management, programmers, hardware engineers, QA staff, the guys in the mail room, the janitor, building and land to pay for, etc. Add in the advertising budget so kids can see the game cube commercials on tv, the magazine ads, trade shows, traveling promoters, etc.

Looks like a net loss on the device. But it doesnt even matter really, because the sale of the device is just a small part of the over all business model.

Now when you zoom out you see that they make their money selling games, licensing agreements with third party developers, accessories, nintendo power magazine, roayalties from patents, selling technology to other companies, service, and a dozen other things.

And they are cash flow positive, and pretty much always have been, which is a good thing, because ive gotten a lot of enjoyment over the years using their stuff.

Focusing on one small part of the picture ( the sale of the console ) is just missing the point, and arguing for arguings sake.

Now if everybody who submitted a comment to this thread just boned up on their c/c++ we could port mono over to AROS and expand the software library for the platform to some insaine level.
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2005, 03:19:18 AM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
@koaftder

Marketing costs are separate and effect every company's bottom line.  Profits from one product can be subsidized to promote a less profitable one so it's not something calculated simply and don't figure directly into manufacturing costs(which can be easily calculated).  It's simply manufacturing costs we are arguing.

Also an MSRP is not always ~ twice the actual costs.  It varies across different industries.  Infact, because they expect to sell software and a memory card and maybe a controller with every console sold, I would say that the GC's MSRP is only 10-20% higher than the actual cost to manufacture.

Now from a software point of view, it costs total about $2 to burn the disc and create the packaging per unit assuming for example 100,000 units.  Now development costs for the average GC/PSP/PS2 title are ~$800,000 per title ( http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchnews.asp?newsid=148719 ).  So if they make 100,000 copies and sell them all, then it only cost them $10 a title.  But if it sells one million copies, then the costs are only $2.80 per title.

After about 400,000 copies are sold and a timeline is met, a game goes "Player's Choice" and sells for 20-30 bucks.  They are still making a good profit.  I would say the MSRP of $50 means the store paid probably half that, maybe a bit more.  Either way, there is profit to be made on software.
As far as 3rd party software goes, platform holders probably make about $5 a title per copy sold.

Now everybody wants to talk about the real profits being in software...well if Nintendo only makes $5 per copy, per title on 3rd party software and they only release ~4 first party console games a year with a profit of ~$17 you can begin to see how selling all those gamecubes in April-June of 2004 made them double their profits over the same quarter of the previous year.  Take into account that rarely do games sell over 400,000 copies on the GC (except 1st party games)...you begin to see why making a profit on hardware is also part of their big picture.

Quote
Now if everybody who submitted a comment to this thread just boned up on their c/c++ we could port mono over to AROS and expand the software library for the platform to some insaine level.


Yes, exactly why I started the "potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP" thread.  To move the platform forward as a whole.  Instead of support, my idea was picked about for trolling's sake.  If you read through the whole thing, I learn some things along the way but also learn who the trolls were and who actually had "constructive" critisism.  Alot of the original troll arguments against it, I dissipated much later on in the thread as the Gamecube modder/homebrew developer community made some break-thrus and an excellent MOD chip (www.qoobchip.com) was released...and is now installed in my Rev C. Gamecube (vs. my much more valuable Rev A.).

Quite a read for anyone here who wonders where the hostility toward adolescent and Waccoon comes from.  Read it all and make up your own mind.


Youve made a lot of good points. I agree that it's important to be as profitable on the hardware as possible. Every little bit adds up.

I have a little bit of a problem with AROS. Dont get me wrong, i love AROS, i think it's great. Major gripe is memory protection. AROS seems to strive towards compatability with 3.1. I dont think this is a good direction.

I would like to float the upper level API's on the L4 kernel. We would get a tight, lightweight fast kernel with threads, first class IPC, memory protection, multiproc support that runs on like 5 major processor architectures.

ive been thinking of forking aros, but am concerned that it might end up fragmenting things and generally causing problems.
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2005, 08:19:25 PM »
@lou_dias

Have you installed a mod chip on your gamecube?
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2005, 12:00:20 AM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
yes, I mean Nintendo will let you trade it in for a fee if you bought a Rev C...

...but pop off the Serial Port 1 Adapter cover and see if the connector is still there...I have a cover for Serial Port 1 on my Rev C but no actual port there when I remove it.  The Serial ports are on either side of the GC, the parralel port is in another corner incase you got confused.

Yes my modchip is installed.  It's the qoob PRO chip with 2MB of flashram that is flashed via USB from my PC.  On the flashram I have the qoob bios 1.3c, an mp3 player and GC-Linux 2.6.1, I can select to load the mp3 player or Linux from the bios's menu or go to the original Gamecube boot.

A ported "Kickstart" would easily fit on there...one that would boot the OS from DVD or network file system...

I ordered the chip and case-MOD bundle (to fit full size DVDs) for a total of $98 ($74.99 + s/h+duty) from www.modchipworld.com that price includes shipping and an import duty took about a week to get it.  The qoob Pro by itself is $49.99


Cool, where can i get one? What do i have to do to install it? I'll demonstrate L4 kernel running on x86, MACppc and GC .
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2005, 12:38:51 PM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12554

Some much for %100 backward compatability.
Sad when the PS2 isn't even backwards compatible with itself, how can you expect the PS3 to be.

As for 360, it just won't have the muscle to "emulate" all the regular XBOX titles.  Part of there "compatibility" comes from downloading recompiled .xbe files from what I hear.  Media will still come from the original XBOX game like the Amiga PPC Quake ports but the executable will come from harddrive as it seems the harddrive is a requirement for backwards compatibility.

As for the GC, since it's escentially an upgraded Gamecube, I'm still holding to my theory that certain future Gamecube titles will be "aware" of the fact that they are running on Revolution hardware and run "enhanced".  Be it higher polygons or using the Rev controller or more on-screen enemies or possibly running at 720p (if Nintendo ever decides to support HD)...


I dont think most people care about backwards compatability with consoles anyway. Sure it would be a plus, but if i have GC titles, i most likely own a GC to play them on. If i didnt, i probably wouldnt buy GC titles to play on my brand new nintendo console.

And why bother making it backwards compatable, when you can sell your retro versions all over again after they have been ported?

Cmon, you know you;d pay 20 bucks to play mario 3 on your new nintendo.
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2005, 01:26:29 PM »
Lou:

Damn, why post about the immaturity of multiproc programming? It's a non issue with developers. Multithreading has been around for 20 years+. Most of us are very familiar with threading libs. It's old stuff. Kernel distributes threads accross processors, and if you are anal, you specify your thread towards a specific proc.

Old skool game programming was the same. A system is chock full of procs. A gramhics processor, the main processor, the sound processor, an audio processor, etc. Lots of cores with lots of programabiity hanging out on a bus.

Things are more consolidated now. There is less time spent banging on hardware, more time spent on other things.

The analog stick for controlling camera is awful. Now a player has to control the character and the camera. It's not all that fun. Look at super mario sunshine. You are constantly having to move the camera view around, this sucks. Often it doesnt matter anyway, ive seen a few levels where even the manual camera view constantly gets in the way.

There is this level were you have to make your way up the backside of a ride, and the limits are so tight, you basically have to play it by feel and hope you get where you need to go, because you cant see whats going on.

You cant blame the controller on bad game design. On DreamCast, check out soul reaver. The camera always focuses on what you need to see. If you want to see more, you can press both flippers and look around, but its rare you have to do this.

In metroid prime on GC, in morph mode where you are in 3rd person view, moving around, the camera is always in the right position to see whats going on. It's called good game design.

In the end, it doesnt matter the hardware. Every new generation has better graphics ability than the previous. Each platform will only have a dozen or so games worth playing.

As for the new nintendo, f*ck, i dont want to have to move my limbs around to play a video game. Remeber the movie Johnny Nemonic? Remember where he donned the "vr" equipment, and he had to move around his arms and hands to manipulate his online experience? There has been a lot of research here, it turns out that having to move around limbs isnt much fun, because it tires the hell out of you.

So now we will have games that require you to move around the room, prancing like a que#r, just to get your as$ kicked constantly in some level you cant beat, unless you are a professional gamer. Great.

But hey, at least i am quite sure the developers will be able to make use of them new fangled multiple proc systems.

 

Offline koaftder

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Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2005, 04:16:59 AM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/11/can-xbox-360-pull-180-in-japan.html

360 poised to do better in Japan

Interesting sales figures for original XBOX in Japan that contradict unfounded claims by a certain poster on this in this thread who always dares me to provide proof but never feels the need to himself.

interesting read:
http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/11072005/09/montreal_and_the_revolution

source of the leaked specs of Revolution:
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/09/han-solo-smuggles-revolution.html

Revolution will have Resident Evil 5
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/09/revolution-will-have-resident-evil-5.html


Dude, you seriously need to put down the controller.