Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: Mike_Amiga on January 25, 2003, 03:34:10 AM
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X or 10 as I'm told it's supposed to be called runs on a UNIX base. How do people think of this OS? As a bastardised version of UNIX or a clever incorporation of UNIX? Are you happy it was incorporated (about time) or annoyed Apple have started acting like M$ ripping off other peoples inventions?
How much difference is there between UNIX and LINUX?
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I personally think its the best thing Apple ever did...it should have come out in 1995 or so... but better late then never.
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It's one of the only reasons left to use a Mac,
IMO.
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Mike_Amiga wrote:
X or 10 as I'm told it's supposed to be called runs on a UNIX base. How do people think of this OS? As a bastardised version of UNIX or a clever incorporation of UNIX? Are you happy it was incorporated (about time) or annoyed Apple have started acting like M$ ripping off other peoples inventions?
I don't think it's so much bastardized as ... well, I supopsed enhanced. It's a BSD based system, with a Mac skin over the top, and it's quite nice actually. We have a nice little iBook here at home, and the wife likes the regular Mac stuff, and I like having all the familiar *nix tools at the terminal. Perl is already there, and awk and cron and vi or emacs if you prefer etc.
I find myself using it quite a bit.
How much difference is there between UNIX and LINUX?
Hmmm. Lot's, and not much.
While the actually code between various *nixes is different, the API's are more or less standardised so that most code written in C is trivially portable between them.
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the kernel itself(BSD) IS the operating system
IMO: its probably the best version of unix outthere from the ordinary users point of view, especialy for beginners
probably a bit memory/HDD hungry though
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Whilst I love UNIX and have grown to respect Linux
I don't love MacOS X yet.
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DaveP wrote:
Whilst I love UNIX and have grown to respect Linux
I don't love MacOS X yet.
ive never actually used MacOS X(ten) yet, but i know that xwindows is one of the main things that slows unix/linux down! so the macos gui is probably faster! but ill just have to see....
probably the only thing i would prefer about it might be the gui, but like i said, i havnt used it yet
:-)
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"x-window slows it down" ( paraphrased )
Yes and no. Xfree's codebase is notoriously generic
( even though they have performed a magnificent effort in producing subdivisions ) that it is slow.
However the "pro" ( read: non Linux at the moment ) UNIXes like AIX from IBM, HPUX from HP ( amazingly ) and even Slowlaris from SUN have extremely efficient and rapid X-window implementations.
The trade off between the power of X11Rx and the power it consumes is in my view well worth it.
export DISPLAY=wayne.amiga.org:0
xv playboy091102.jpg & <- thats 9th November btw
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I've not personally had the opportunity it use this new version of OS, however, I've heard good reviews from friends and colleagues regarding the look, feel and performance.
Skippy
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Hi Mike_Amiga
I have to you many times that you should get it for our mac it pisses all over OS9, its great to use it makes me feel almost like iam using an amiga.
I find it much better then XP with all the probs I had with that at home and work.
Regards
Antoniox
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Mike_Amiga wrote:
X or 10 as I'm told it's supposed to be called runs on a UNIX base. How do people think of this OS? As a bastardised version of UNIX or a clever incorporation of UNIX? Are you happy it was incorporated (about time) or annoyed Apple have started acting like M$ ripping off other peoples inventions?
How much difference is there between UNIX and LINUX?
As I understand it, Mac OS X is basically a blend of BSD and OPENSTEP running on a modified Mach 3 kernel, with a Mac OS skin.
You can read more about the core technologies, here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/) Truth be told, Mac OS X isn't exactly a rip off. Long story short, after Jobs left Apple he founded NeXT and created the NeXTStep OS, which later became OPENSTEP. Apple bought NeXT and Jobs became interim CEO (now permanent?) and Apple integrated OPENSTEP w/ BSDLite 4.4, slapped on Aqua and came out with Mac OS X.
As for the differences between Unix and Linux... Basically, different kernels. IIRC, Linux could end up an official flavor of Unix. An OS only need conform to the POSIX standard in order to be called Unix.
(If I'm in error about POSIX=Unix, please fellow A.org users, correct me)
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MacOS X's GUI is *not* the 'X window system' (xfree86.org), Apple wrote their own GUI on top of the BSD-base operating system.
The X window system (as people here have decided to mean "X" as MacOS X) is being ported to MacOS X, or has been already, I can't remember.
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As for the differences between Unix and Linux... Basically, different kernels. IIRC, Linux could end up an official flavor of Unix. An OS only need conform to the POSIX standard in order to be called Unix.
(If I'm in error about POSIX=Unix, please fellow A.org users, correct me)
Hate to correct such an interesting response but you are right in your concern that POSIX might not == UNIX.
You only have to be POSIX compliant to be... POSIX compliant.
Linux has been POSIX compliant but not certified for a while now although that might have changed.
Linux is a firm member of the uncertified "UNIX" family.
The best place to ask is comp.unix.questions, and here is one that was prepared earlier:
Subject: What makes an OS a "UNIX" OS?
I had a long discussion with some co-workers yesterday about what is and
isn't UNIX.
We argued whether or not Linux was "UNIX". In AEleen Frisch's book
"Essential System Administration, 2nd Edition" from O'Reilly, AEleen
states that Linux is a "..UNIX like" operating system. But why? Why is
it "UNIX Like" and the other OSs (ie Solaris, AIX, HP/UX, etc...)
mentioned in the book are not labeled as such. They are simply "UNIX".
Also, a few of my co-workers wanted to argue whether or not a *BSD
system was UNIX. If I'm not mistaken, BSD was a licensed copy of AT&T's
original UNIX OS for them to do with as they please.
Most of the current "UNIX" or "UNIX-like" OSes today are simply a meld
of SysV or BSD.
So what gives? Personally i just throw them all under the heading of
UNIX. But, then I ask myself 'is Mac OS X a UNIX?' and I find myself
saying 'well, its UNIX-like', heh =)
What must an OS have to be called UNIX?
... but the real answer is certification.
The strict answer is: Only systems that the Open Group
has certified as being UNIX(tm) are UNIX(tm). See
"http://www.unix-systems.org/what_is_unix.html". Solaris,
Tru64, AIX etc. (particular hardware/software combinations)
falls into this category. History doesn't enter into it.
So UNIX == UNIX && POSIX == POSIX but POSIX => UNIX and ! UNIX => POSIX
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@monkey_mike
Something that people might get confused about:
" 'X window system' (xfree86.org),"
X window is NOT defined by xfree86 but X in the X11 spec.
xfree86 is an implementation of X11 and is far from the best implementation on the planet.
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hummm I don't love LINUX either. I always had the impression that LINUX was the bastard son for the GNU Utils, whilst the real kernel for the GNU Utils is HURD!!!!!
TOÑO
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I have been playing around with MacOS X alot lately and I must say I'm in love. It's beautiful, it's has the stability of *nix and the look and feel of MacOS, what more could one ask for (oh well, look and feel of AmigaOS then :)?
I have been playing around a little with X11 on the Mac aswell, and it seems GTK apps can be ported to MacOS quite easily, I tried Gimp, which ran just fine on a friends Mac. Way cool.
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Well, I've had MacOS-X installed on my Mac for about 8 months, and I must say it has been nice to work with. It is stable, eligant, powerful, and also takes up almost a gig of hard disk space. But Apple has done alot of nice things with the OS, and it seems to now be gaining more support in the way of games and apps.
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@DaveP
It's been about three years since I did any in depth research into what makes an OS a flavor of Unix. I was pretty sure I'd get something wrong.
Thanks for setting me straight.
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@ Everyone
Thanks for your replies on the subject.
I do have OS X (Jaguar) but I’m running it on a separate partition, I have had it for at least 6 months if not longer. My only real gripe is the dock system, I know it can be hidden with a few key presses, or placed left, right and at the bottom, but most of the time I find it gets in the way. I’d rather see my apps back in the top left-hand corner, if Apple made that a sort of extra dock positioning I’d be a happy man.
On the plus side it shows you all of the applications available, but you could do that with a row of alias’s on your desktop. Another plus, while your online and iTunes is changing track it doesn’t leave you wondering if it will crash/freeze/hang for a few seconds before carrying on like nothing happened. I’ve since found by playing CDs through the player, rather than iTunes that it doesn’t give me this problem but then I don’t always just want to play CDs.
While a lot of my apps may run in Classic they may not run properly, and why have two operating systems running (OS X and Classic) which puts extra strain on my machine, when I can have one OS running. One example that was recently fixed was in Appleworks, where the spell check box would appear to high on the screen making it difficult, if not impossible to use.
I like OS X it barely ever crashes and it’s nice to know Apple haven’t ripped off anyone else's technology, still needs a lot of optimisation though. :-D
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X or 10 as I'm told it's supposed to be called runs on a UNIX base. How do people think of this OS? As a bastardised version of UNIX or a clever incorporation of UNIX? Are you happy it was incorporated (about time) or annoyed Apple have started acting like M$ ripping off other peoples inventions?
It still has a one button mouse, how good could it be? I'll be Bill Gates' poster boy before I use an Apple OS!
- Mike
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export DISPLAY=wayne.amiga.org:0
xv playboy091102.jpg & <- thats 9th November btw
That works great, just make sure no one's hooked up over a 56k modem! ;-)
Man, this reminds me of a time when I was working at Environment Canada writing some scientific analysis software on HP Unix systems. My buddy who was in an another room thought it would be funny if he pasted a few pix on my screen. So I'm working away and all of a sudden some hard core beastiality pops up on my screen! And then a few more pix! Of course I'm frantically trying to close all the windows because I'm working in a public area, more like a hall way. I just managed to close all the windows before my manager walked by! That was close! That was the day I learned how to set permissions on the display! ;-)
- Mike
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Herewegoagain wrote:
Well, I've had MacOS-X installed on my Mac for about 8 months, and I must say it has been nice to work with. It is stable, eligant, powerful, and also takes up almost a gig of hard disk space. But Apple has done alot of nice things with the OS, and it seems to now be gaining more support in the way of games and apps.
Strange, I've also noted this recent support increase, especially in gaming, but it's not just limited to OS X. I was talking to one of my PC owning friends and mentioned I had Deus Ex.
"Oh, must be a bit fiddley to play with a pad" he exclaimed. I'd also been talking about games on the PS 2. When I mentioned I had it for Mac he couldn't believe it. "I thought it was almost impossible to come by games, especially recent ones for a Mac."
"To be honest" I said "that was one of my initial fears as well. I thought after I finished college I'd eventually get bored of pretending I'm going to be a graphic designer and flog my Mac to get a top notch PC. Then I could get all the latest games and have productivity software all pre-installed for me, the best of both worlds!"
OT:In some other conversation (in another pub, same night), he mentioned how hard it was to come by disks for an Amiga. I mentioned that I bought about 20 disks from Argos not so long ago.
“But don’t they come preformatted for PCs?” he asked.
“Well yes they do, but I just reformat them.”
“But that doesn’t work!”
“Yes it does I have quite a few with South Park and Pulp Fiction samples on them. “What did you use?”
“Some PD Copying programme.”
“Didn’t seem to work when I used workbench CLI!?!” He said.
This confused me a bit, I hadn’t tried it recently in CLI myself but I don’t see why it shouldn’t work if the PD app worked.
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Glaucus wrote:
It still has a one button mouse, how good could it be? I'll be Bill Gates' poster boy before I use an Apple OS!
I didn't know that operating systems had mouse buttons! :)
Seriously, I think it's a feature that MacOS can be operated with a single button mouse. Connect a 2, 3, 5 or Bazillion button mouse, and MacOS will use the buttons and you can configure the buttons to your heart's content.
OTOH, I hate that PowerBooks ship with only one "mouse" button. Then you have to use an external mouse, unless you're happy with using e.g. F11 and F12 as MMB and RMB in e.g. X11. I tend to use external mouses with laptops anyway, but it's nevertheless a nuisance.