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Offline eliyahu

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #44 from previous page: July 08, 2013, 09:29:02 PM »
@Stevo

ok, ok, take it easy, guys. :roflmao:

i know everyone is kidding, but some folks might actually think such a demo is scheduled for amiwest this year. i mean, it could be, but i rather doubt it. in any case amiwest is a great get-together with amigans of all strips, though most of the folks there tend to be classic enthusiasts.

i highly encourage anyone who can make it to do so, whether or not ssolie shows us something new on the AOS front. i hope to see some of you there!

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Offline kickstart

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2013, 10:14:55 PM »
resuming... some people somewhere is laughting on a room thinking on amiga users and violating the amiga name another time more.
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Offline Duce

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2013, 10:41:39 PM »
Did support for the onboard SATA and audio ever get done for the X1000, or are add-on cards still needed?

Please, please, please - don't do things in a half assed way with the X2000.  I'd love to buy one, but I ain't paying to be a beta tester.  Ship it when EVERYTHING works on it.

And please - motherboard option as well as full, prebuilt systems.  The moment I found out the X1000 was not available in mobo only form was the day I crossed it off my "to buy" list.  Been building PC's professionally for 20 years and I won't buy pre-builts.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:44:18 PM by Duce »
 

Offline eliyahu

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2013, 10:46:39 PM »
@Duce

full support for the on-board audio HD controller was added some time ago. on-board SATA also works as well. the only thing still missing is support for the on-board Ethernet. well, that and 3D support for radeon HD cards. oh, and GPU-accelerated video.

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« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 11:31:10 PM by eliyahu »
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Offline nicholas

Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2013, 10:47:29 PM »
Quote from: eliyahu;740249
@Stevo

ok, ok, take it easy, guys. :roflmao:

i know everyone is kidding, but some folks might actually think such a demo is scheduled for amiwest this year. i mean, it could be, but i rather doubt it. in any case amiwest is a great get-together with amigans of all strips, though most of the folks there tend to be classic enthusiasts.

i highly encourage anyone who can make it to do so, whether or not ssolie shows us something new on the AOS front. i hope to see some of you there!

-- eliyahu


I was only half kidding.  I heard that Amiga SMP will be demoed this Amiwest.

Isn't that what ssolie was hinting at?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline haywirepc

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2013, 11:25:08 PM »
I love amiga, but these guys in the os4 camp keep shooting themselves in the foot...

The fact that people paid 3k+ for an x1000 years ago and they still didn't get the promised finished drivers speaks volumes.

os4 fanboys can defend them all they want, there is no defense for taking everyone's money but not delivering finished drivers, especially for the premium price they charged for a computer that a 100$ powermac can beat in benchmarks...
 

Offline Fats

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2013, 12:57:02 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;740231
Remember that we are talking about a clean slate restart in the OS development since SMP simply can't exist inside a traditional Amiga legacy environment without breaking it. You would have to cut the cord to the past, once and for all.

Could go into more technical detail why you would need a total clean slate for SMP ?
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

Offline jorkany

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2013, 01:18:09 AM »
Quote from: AmigaNG;740170
SMP is coming in OS4.2

Actually there are no plans to include any sort of multi-core support in 4.2, simply because nobody has any idea as to what will be in 4.2:

http://www.intuitionbase.com/solie_irclog.txt

I recommend you take a long hard look at the answer to the question on [18:09:16] in that interview.
 

Offline yssing

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2013, 09:57:22 AM »
I see a lot of FUD going around, what a shame.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2013, 10:11:37 AM »
that is not correctly. I was in the chat and as I understand it he does not know it (if it is in or not)

from log:
   If I knew myself I would tell you. :-)
[18:10:02]    Basically, we work hard on all the features and at some point Hyperion says "ship it" and we figure out which pieces are high enough quality to include.
[18:10:19]    hold up for a few min guys :-)
[18:10:24]    So I could take a guess at which ones are going to make it but really it is early.
[18:11:02]    I was just talking to Timothy (a Hyperion director) and they are getting anxious to ship something so that's good news I suppose

One important word "early" so no update in near term and how he explained it someone says "stop" and then they publish what is there. It is a little "unconventional" for my taste but if AmigaOS fans are happy with it...
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2013, 10:21:31 AM »
The day started out nice. But now there is just negativity.
I thought the quiet hints at porting to x86 is what a lot of people want. We know it can be done well because of Amithlon.

The underpowered nature doesn't matter, but I sure would like to take advantage of some power.
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Offline OlafS3

Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2013, 10:23:17 AM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;740318
The day started out nice. But now there is just negativity.
I thought the quiet hints at porting to x86 is what a lot of people want. We know it can be done well because of Amithlon.

The underpowered nature doesn't matter, but I sure would like to take advantage of some power.


Hints at a X86 port?
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2013, 11:32:16 AM »
Quote from: jorkany;740283
Actually there are no plans to include any sort of multi-core support in 4.2, simply because nobody has any idea as to what will be in 4.2:

http://www.intuitionbase.com/solie_irclog.txt

I recommend you take a long hard look at the answer to the question on [18:09:16] in that interview.


Funny to see how the bold and brave "4.2 features" is spontaneously devalued this way. "When Hyperion say 'ship something', we ship whatever we have". Yeah... :rolleyes:

I think it's obvious that there is no centralized plan, no centralized management anymore. Sounds more like they have adapted the AROS approach now, everyone works on whatever he wants, when he wants (on his spare time). And looking at what is actually being released it becomes obvious that hardly anything is happening anymore. The key feature of the last update (OS4.1.6) was a bump in the version number (a new version, yay!) and the bundling of AmiUpdate. There has been some work done on drivers, but that's coming from Acube/Aeon. Why? Well, Christopher Gutjhar (who I trust, and it seems he has some inside knowledge from friends of his in the community) has on a few occasions on various sites been mentioning that the OS4 developers are left unpaid (like: here (my reply)) much like the MorphOS Team was when Thendic France crashed and burned, resulting in the infamous "morphos.net" site hijacking and some developers leaving, and in a post he has even played with the idea of using "amigaos.net" in a similar way in order to get rid of "our version of 'the BBRV folks'". Not a bad idea, IMHO!

Once upon a time, the Friedens were the leaders of OS4 development. They were supposed to be employed and paid, and they were the ones managing all the OS4 development. After a lawsuit against Hyperion regarding missing payments, they suddenly kind of disappeared. I don't mean they stopped reading/posting in forums, but they are not the head of OS4 development anymore. Something changed. Instead "ssolie" (of all people) was brought in. He is not employed. And one of the first  actions he took was to try to bring new developers on board ("AmigaOS wants you") by appealing to anyone in the community to come and help out. Around this time they also started to talk about how AmigaOS was more of a hobby project, so I guess the newbies weren't exactly put on a pay-roll either.

I think this is a credible explanation to both the uncertainties regarding "OS4.2.0", as well to the dramatically halted OS4 development in general. Something is obviously not right in OS4 land, or to put it in a different way - the reality probably doesn't match very well the appearance (the public facade) some people try so hard to put up.

And in the meantime people like Trevor continues marching in their own direction. At his own will, his own initiative. This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution. Anarchy. Hyperion promised things like SMP, memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargement a decade ago. Today also 64-bit would make sense. But to incorporate these things into Amiga OS, such drastic changes would be required that you could as well migrate to a proper desktop ISA (like x86) while you are at it. *Not* doing this would be close to madness. And then you will have a bunch of people who paid a truckload of money for underperforming PPC hardware that simply doesn't make sense anymore, and will also probably be close to worthless on the second hand market.

All IMHO of course!

:)
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Offline OlafS3

Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2013, 12:15:54 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;740329
Funny to see how the bold and brave "4.2 features" is spontaneously devalued this way. "When Hyperion say 'ship something', we ship whatever we have". Yeah... :rolleyes:

I think it's obvious that there is no centralized plan, no centralized management anymore. Sounds more like they have adapted the AROS approach now, everyone works on whatever he wants, when he wants (on his spare time). And looking at what is actually being released it becomes obvious that hardly anything is happening anymore. The key feature of the last update (OS4.1.6) was a bump in the version number (a new version, yay!) and the bundling of AmiUpdate. There has been some work done on drivers, but that's coming from Acube/Aeon. Why? Well, Christopher Gutjhar (who I trust, and it seems he has some inside knowledge from friends of his in the community) has on a few occasions on various sites been mentioning that the OS4 developers are left unpaid (like: here (my reply)) much like the MorphOS Team was when Thendic France crashed and burned, resulting in the infamous "morphos.net" site hijacking and some developers leaving, and in a post he has even played with the idea of using "amigaos.net" in a similar way in order to get rid of "our version of 'the BBRV folks'". Not a bad idea, IMHO!

Once upon a time, the Friedens were the leaders of OS4 development. They were supposed to be employed and paid, and they were the ones managing all the OS4 development. After a lawsuit against Hyperion regarding missing payments, they suddenly kind of disappeared. I don't mean they stopped reading/posting in forums, but they are not the head of OS4 development anymore. Something changed. Instead "ssolie" (of all people) was brought in. He is not employed. And one of the first  actions he took was to try to bring new developers on board ("AmigaOS wants you") by appealing to anyone in the community to come and help out. Around this time they also started to talk about how AmigaOS was more of a hobby project, so I guess the newbies weren't exactly put on a pay-roll either.

I think this is a credible explanation to both the uncertainties regarding "OS4.2.0", as well to the dramatically halted OS4 development in general. Something is obviously not right in OS4 land, or to put it in a different way - the reality probably doesn't match very well the appearance (the public facade) some people try so hard to put up.

And in the meantime people like Trevor continues marching in their own direction. At his own will, his own initiative. This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution. Anarchy. Hyperion promised things like SMP, memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargement a decade ago. Today also 64-bit would make sense. But to incorporate these things into Amiga OS, such drastic changes would be required that you could as well migrate to a proper desktop ISA (like x86) while you are at it. *Not* doing this would be close to madness. And then you will have a bunch of people who paid a truckload of money for underperforming PPC hardware that simply doesn't make sense anymore, and will also probably be close to worthless on the second hand market.

All IMHO of course!

:)


I do not comment your slightly ironic comments on AROS, I also have my views on "Macs" in general and used Macs in special (you know what I mean :-) ). Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. I have more fun with AROS (and see better chances) you prefer MorphOS.

Regarding the Friedens (if I understand it right), they were never "employed" in classical sense but propably are freelancer working for Ben H. (we do not know how many hours and if fulltime how Hyperion claims). And Solie is a kind of speakman working free of charge for Hyperion. We should not interpret too much in it.

"This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution."

And seriously MorphOS-Team has a masterplan? Seriously all OS development right now is "hobby" noone can live of it. So I do not think there is a real "masterplan" in any camp. But I must admit that working on it for some time, then stopping at a point and looking what works really sounds a little "unconventional". Regarding comparing opensource vs. closed source/commercial development both have advantages and disadvantages.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2013, 12:40:33 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;740329
Funny to see how the bold and brave "4.2 features" is spontaneously devalued this way. "When Hyperion say 'ship something', we ship whatever we have". Yeah... :rolleyes:

I think it's obvious that there is no centralized plan, no centralized management anymore. Sounds more like they have adapted the AROS approach now, everyone works on whatever he wants, when he wants (on his spare time). And looking at what is actually being released it becomes obvious that hardly anything is happening anymore. The key feature of the last update (OS4.1.6) was a bump in the version number (a new version, yay!) and the bundling of AmiUpdate. There has been some work done on drivers, but that's coming from Acube/Aeon. Why? Well, Christopher Gutjhar (who I trust, and it seems he has some inside knowledge from friends of his in the community) has on a few occasions on various sites been mentioning that the OS4 developers are left unpaid (like: here (my reply)) much like the MorphOS Team was when Thendic France crashed and burned, resulting in the infamous "morphos.net" site hijacking and some developers leaving, and in a post he has even played with the idea of using "amigaos.net" in a similar way in order to get rid of "our version of 'the BBRV folks'". Not a bad idea, IMHO!

Once upon a time, the Friedens were the leaders of OS4 development. They were supposed to be employed and paid, and they were the ones managing all the OS4 development. After a lawsuit against Hyperion regarding missing payments, they suddenly kind of disappeared. I don't mean they stopped reading/posting in forums, but they are not the head of OS4 development anymore. Something changed. Instead "ssolie" (of all people) was brought in. He is not employed. And one of the first  actions he took was to try to bring new developers on board ("AmigaOS wants you") by appealing to anyone in the community to come and help out. Around this time they also started to talk about how AmigaOS was more of a hobby project, so I guess the newbies weren't exactly put on a pay-roll either.

I think this is a credible explanation to both the uncertainties regarding "OS4.2.0", as well to the dramatically halted OS4 development in general. Something is obviously not right in OS4 land, or to put it in a different way - the reality probably doesn't match very well the appearance (the public facade) some people try so hard to put up.

And in the meantime people like Trevor continues marching in their own direction. At his own will, his own initiative. This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution. Anarchy. Hyperion promised things like SMP, memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargement a decade ago. Today also 64-bit would make sense. But to incorporate these things into Amiga OS, such drastic changes would be required that you could as well migrate to a proper desktop ISA (like x86) while you are at it. *Not* doing this would be close to madness. And then you will have a bunch of people who paid a truckload of money for underperforming PPC hardware that simply doesn't make sense anymore, and will also probably be close to worthless on the second hand market.

All IMHO of course!

:)


And yes, MorphOS is "propably" (I do not use it) the best "Amiga-based" (or however you call it) OS right now. But it has one big weakness. It stucks in PPC the same way as AmigaOS and there is no chance (if you believe the Devs) that this will change in the next years. It has reached maximum hardware support (used PPC Macs), the only extension could be Acube/a-eon systems. You have certainly read the disappointment of Morphzone regarding new licenses and users (or better only few new). So both have a problem.
 

Offline yssing

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Re: AmigaONE X2000
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2013, 12:42:20 PM »
There is no hint at "x86 port" And I highly doubt there will be.

@TMHG I highly doubt that there is no sense of direction for amiga os4.x and hardware development.
E.g. remember that press release stating that they are going to support a new PowerISA?