SAM 460 poor performance, high price

[Piru]

In number crunching SAM 460 is barely as fast as the Pegasos2 G4@1GHz if you don't account for the altivec. If altivec is taken into account then G4@1GHz runs circles around the system. Granted, Sam460 has a faster memory interface, but the number crunching figures are quite disappointing.

Why is it that it's so hard to find SPECint and SPECfp figures for AMCC460? AMCC appears to only quote some DMIPS values which frankly are quite useless.

I would have expected a new HW to actually surpass the 6-7 year old one, especially considering the extremely high price of the system. Sam 440 systems were already pricey but this 460 takes it to a new level (900 eur).

Just because something is "new" doesn't make it better anymore.

[Piru]

Hmm, now that I think about it this thread might have a better home at "Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion". Mods: Move if you wish.

[Piru]

It does make it available, however. Well, at least when the Sam460 is shipping to end AmigaOS users.

Ah indeed. It's 3 months late already.

My guess is that they don't want to repeat the SAM 440 disaster where the OS experience was far from stellar.

[Piru]

Altivec isn't used in Amiga software at the moment (with the sole exeption of mplayer) so it's basically irrelevant.

Yes it is unfortunate indeed. AltiVec can be used everywhere. It gives most benefit when it's actually used by the OS components, like in MorphOS. All applications using the OS features benefit automatically.

[Piru]

Ah! And to those who believe they have a better idea, go do it, you will learn the difference between talking in forums and actually bringing a real product to market.

I did. See here: http://www.morphos-team.net/news.html

[Piru]

@Piru
I was referring to the hardships of creating and bringing to market an Hardware product made for a small niche.

I've said it before and I say it again: It makes no sense at all to try build niche HW like that. The potential market is too small and the product price will be astronomical. Since it is doubtful if the business is profitable it is also possible that the company producing such HW disappears, along with the support/replacement HW.

Going for the mainstream HW (such as Apple) makes much more sense. Prices are lower and there are numerous companies offering hardware repairs, support and parts. Just try to get a replacement parts for an AmigaONE and you see the point.

Small projects can work: Such as an expansion for C64, or some expansion HW for classic amiga. But 900 € project is way too expensive to work on a niche field.

[Piru]

Of course smf is allowed to like only the officially branded products. I bet C=USA will have a happy customer there

Seriously speaking for any business purposes the "amiga" brand has already been diluted beyond repair. The only value it might have is the association of about 20+ years ago and that was gaming pretty much. C=USA (however irritating they may be) have understood it and are trying to milk the last drops of value out of the name. Assuming they don't fold before they get something out they might actually pull it off.

The irony of this doesn't escape me.

[Piru]

@Piru
Mos is a cool alternative that needs not such apple to orange comparisons (different paradigms for differently minded folks) in order to deserve attention.)

I believe these threads actually hurt its image when started by a developer.

I beg to differ.

IMHO even sensitive topics should be discussed, as long as the discussion is kept civil. Of course there is no way of pleasing everyone but I believe comparisons such as this make sense. This is what forums are for after all, discussion.

Also, I believe current and potential MorphOS users are mostly practical bunch of people. They're not that much involved in politics of things or imago issues. They've already accepted the fact that different solutions can co-exist and that name is not the only thing that matters. They see that we offer a good product with a reasonable price. IMHO censoring ones opinions to avoid hurting your "image" is a rather bleak view of things. I won't do that.

[Piru]

you forgot you don't have your own HW. Some Amigans just don't like it that way. Respect that.

I respect their opinion, but I don't understand their reasoning behind it. That HW has nothing to do with original Amiga anymore.

It's just something you run your OS and software on. As long as the HW is affordable, reliable and well built quality product what difference does it make who produced it, or which label does it have?

[Piru]

No longer in production HW and the knowledge that no HW will ever be made again count as having no future, HW wise.

Now you're just making things up.

Nowhere have I said that we will limit ourself to Mac HW forever. It is currently and in the near future the best solution, however.

Some care about it, some, like you, does not.

There's no need to get personal. What I care or don't care is irrelevant, nor can you read my mind. If you really respect my views you don't need to do this.

[Piru]

Other like the feeling of being as different as it gets, so that need is further satisfied if you develop HW and have your OS run on it.

Building expensive, slow and rare HW just to be exotic and different from everyone else doesn't sound a good strategy to me. But I suppose that can be seen as a value by some.

[Piru]

Isn't it just as insane as making crappy os'es that's lightyears behind the rest?

Yes.

Luckily the OS I'm making isn't crappy.

[Piru]

their be a lot of people out side of the Amiga community that would say paying 111Euro for an out dated limited AmigaOS inspire OS such as MorphOS for outdated mac hardware is madness.

Most certainly. I have friends (/me waves at #amigafin ppl) who think it's pure lunacy. They do however considered it even more ridiculous to spend almost a 1000 € on a custom built HW that is even slower than most of those old Macs.

Its all a matter of perspective and what you want/enjoy.

Exactly so. It still must suck to be OS4 fan though, the performance/price ratio leaves much to be desired.

PS: No one mentioned the second hand market, you can find a few AmigaONE and Sam system their now for around £600 and the price is only likely to come down more as we get more and better  hardware so I do think /would like to think some users go that root to just try out the OS.

You bring up a good point. Here's another reason why supporting "old" Macs is a good thing: You can download MorphOS ISO image for free and try it on supported system. You're likely to find PowerPC Macs everywhere, maybe a family member or a friend has one. Just pop in the CD-R and boot the system and you're running MorphOS live CD.

OS4 users are not that lucky. There's no easy way to test OS4 before you buy.

[Piru]

Plus if they get the AmigaONE X1000 out and sell the planned first batch of 250 machine they are building (im sure I read that some where) at let say £2,000 that's £500,000.00 a half a million pound turn over, I would not consider that a fail. I think that number of units is just about doable judging by the amount of interest in it. what can I say other than....i believe.

By June 2010 they were already £167,785.00 down. With no money coming in for another 6 months hasn't improved the situation. I very much doubt 250 units at price £2,000 will cover it.

As Trevor put it:

Personally I would be happy if we just recovered our original investment but, in reality we will also need to generate some profit in order to re-invest in new hardware development and possibly attract additional funding if we are to see the AmigaOne product line continue to flourish in the future. (source)

Currently it doesn't look very good I'm afraid. More delays means more costs, and the ROI keeps dropping. If it goes low (or even to loss) you can pretty much say goodbye to any future AmigaOne. Since the market for the products is limited to hundreds at best it may well be that the project could fail completely. You could fight this by upping the end product price but I believe there is a limit somewhere. Certainly going over say £2,500.00 would be too much already.

We will know the result by the end of 2011 I believe.

[Piru]

"2) How many AmigaOne boards have been sold so far and what is your  opinion on the demand for the current boards and upcoming Micro1A  boards?

Alan: From the publicly available figures it seems  that we have delivered more AmigaOne boards than any other 'open' (ie  not IBM or Apple) PPC-based standard PC form factor board supplier. And  in terms of real sales for real money (which in my view is the ultimate  measure of success"

http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=3&rev_id=41&sort_by

Let me pick some highlights from that:

• publicly available figures
• seems

If it was such a great success why didn't Eyetech handle warranties (which were supposedly covered by the profit margin, and was given as reason for the high price!) and why did Eyetech fail? Trying to blame it on MAI doesn't explain it. They were told numerous times that the MAI chipsets were defect.