Mai Excited about Validation!

[ksk]

If things had happened like they were planned to happen in PPC roadmaps in 1997/98, we would have already G7 CPUs...

I could try to dig those old roadmaps out (just for fun) ... I think I have IBM and Moto papers stored somewhere ... I think they are not so top secret in this century...

****
btw little offtopic, but is there any news about AMD technology going into future PPCs?
AMD goodies that could make the IBM&AMD co-operation very important:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_4699_4741,00.html

*******
Here's a little information bits of what IBM will do after PPC970: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7973

[Herewegoagain]

@Herewegoagain

First of all.. chill out, you are way over reacting to this!  

Huh???  Don't tell me what to do.  I'm not over reacting to anything.  I'm stating my thoughts and views on this whole "circus like news".  Just like everyone else is doing.  To be honest, even the title of this thread sounds like it came directly out of Bill Bucks mouth.  (How many emails did you get from BB contributing to this "article", Targhan?  Did he also promise you a new Pegasos II to write it? :-)  )  

And I never said anything about a news story on Morphzone.  But if I did the working title may be something like "Genesi is SO proud of it's Partners!".    I've never been there and have no intention of going.   Anyway, it's fun to think of what would go into that pretend article.

By the way, Targhan ran his article past me and I see nothing wrong with it. I see news articles like this on television all the time.

Where? On tabloid TV??  No respectable network would touch that article the way it is written.  Maybe the Maury Povich show or Jerry Springer.

It was written with clear prejudice against Mai Logic, from a supporter of Genesi.  There is an agenda by Targhan  going into this whole "article".  I wonder why he didn't spend that much effort putting together something useful that we all would like to see like those infamous Genesi benchmarks.  Or digging in deep to reveal the REAL reason that Genesi are HAVING to redesign the Pegasos.   Or exactly "What does it mean to be backed by The Phoenix Consortium?"  as Bill Buck made much to do over this as well (although I guess it's clear now why he had that $299 "fire sale" on the Pegasos :-P ).  Or how about "Do we REALLY need another STB?".  

Yet he takes something like IBM's validation process to try and tear at the throat of Mai Logic.  Bill buck trains his minions well.  But in the end did he really discredit anyone?  I think not.  The "article" had all the smell of Bill Bucks backing.  Even sounded as though it was worded by BB himself, and as such had the same negative effect to me.  


 :-D end of rant :-D

[DaveP]

Im sorry Targhan this did not tell me anything
other than I already knew and havent already said
on threads when this Mai statement was released
in the first place.

I would like to know who these "others" are that
helped you put this together and the "we" refers
to throughout.

Can I also ask whether you have any business, personal or financial interest in Genesi or related companies?

I could understand this as an interesting forum topic
but it is way out of place in "News" in my opinion.

It isn't even particularly thoroughly researched, at no
point were Mai requested to comment on the findings and marketing spin related to certification
programmes is well known.

I would also have liked to see you get a proper
quote from IBM on the certification claim, as the
claimed certifying body.

Its a puff piece, no more and no less. I wonder if
a non moderator had submitted this if it would be news?

[edit] too rough ... sorry [/edit]

[DaveP]

@herewegoagain

When I think about the s**t I hurled at Mike Bouma
over his editorialising, the s**t that was hurled at
me  I'm amazed that so many that seem to be
interested in upholding the journalistic profession
to such a degree find this article to be so palatable.

 :-?

[MarkTime]

This is not only news, it is rarity in news.
It is researched and informative, and the facts were checked.

Whereas most 'news' is press releases....I've seen 'news' that was nothing more than a web page change on a hoaxsters website (a-la merlancia adds a price on a non-existant box).

This is a great job about news!

[downix]

@MarkTime

The thing is, if a similar article were to delve into, say, DCE, Genesi or MorphOS, these same people lambasting it would be praising it.  That is what I call hypocracy.

As for me, I work for Genesi so of course I will attempt to deflect any criticism of my company.  I'd highly suggest to the critics here to deflect or even better post counter-arguements to the points raised here rather than attack the person that posted them.  Heck, I brought up a counter-arguement to the article, and I have every incentive not to.

[DaveP]

@downix

Not at all. I don't happen to like these so called
expose's when they don't actually expose anything
or come to a reasonable conclusion.

I could and did put what you said the other way around. If
this was an article about Genesi then those people lauding
and and supporting it would probably be condemning it
and the person for not having adhered to some kind
of lofty professional journalistic standard.

I remain however of the opinion that this would be OK
as a forum article but as a news story it just doesn't cut
it. Thats just MY opinion.

I popped in here again to apologise for being so hard
on Targhan above, until I get out the other end of what
Im going through Id better count to 200 before I post and
even then reconsider. :-)

[MarkTime]

@DaveP,

I believe your motivations, but I can hardly see your point.

I have seen so many articles, that are not even close to being news...in fact I would dare say over 90% of all 'news' posted tot his site, is just press releases, and sometimes just pointers to forum threads on other sites, and sometimes just speculation.

This is news shows actual in-depth research about the process of the IBM Certification program.  It may be part op-ed, but it is way and above the usual effort and quality we see here.

I can see saying 'make this a forum' post, if the alternatives were clearly better...but the alternatives, are to continue running press releases and rumors....this is just such a clear step up in quality...I just don't where you are coming from.

I think all sides should run into this type of news story, where Amigans can read the rest of the story.

For example, the Peg2 press release was run as news...I would have liked to have seen an expose on its lack of AGP support being announced...what does it all really mean...dig down, get some facts, interview people, get reactions.

oh ya, it'll be controversial, but readership is good for Amiga.org...and having some truth exposed is good for Amiga.org readers.

[DaveP]

@Marktime

You are probably right. Sorry if I have put you off Targhan.

[System]

Yea, who cares? Elbox did the same thing with their SharkPPC announcements a year ago or so, making a big deal out of some IBM PPC thing similar or identical to this situation. Big deal. I can't imagine anyone caring enough to type as much about it as you did.

Marketing types spin anything they can find to spin, and this is just one example. There's nothing special about insight into realizing this.

[System]

@ MarkTime

This is not only news, it is rarity in news.

This isn't in the ordinary sense a news story, this is simply an opinion piece.

It is researched and informative, and the facts were checked.

IMO this isn't a well researched and balanced opinion article. Simply because the parties involved were not asked for any input, reaction or clarification. This story is pretty much Targhan's and his unknown friends' take on some selected data.

@ Downix

The thing is, if a similar article were to delve into, say, DCE, Genesi or MorphOS, these same people lambasting it would be praising it. That is what I call hypocracy.

I would not. However it is quite easy to take apart the PR stunts and press releases from just about any company, without too much effort.

A small Genesi example:

For istance the glorified "Amiga Award 2002 for bplan GmbH" announcements. While in fact 1) Genesi was the main sponsor for this Award 2) Polls for ARC visitors show that the AmigaOS/AmigaOne solutions were still by far the most preferred solution in comparison. This was backed up by various people who asked around, including Petra.

Should someone write a *news item* about this? IMO not, but if someone would, this article when including personal valuations, would become nothing more than an opinion article, well researched or not.

[MarkTime]

@MikeB

Oh it is so easy to play this word game, but 'that is your opinion'.

We can say about any factual story, that it is the reporters 'opinion.'  His opinion about the facts...its a tiresome game.

Again, reread my posts, what is the alternative...to pass along press releases only?, links to rumors on ann.lu?, and rants? as the only news we have?

This is REAL news, it is a description about the process of IBM Validation program.

It does have elements of op-ed.  And so what?  You act as if thats a bad thing, its a very much needed and GOOD thing.

Your Genesi's example was a very good example.  Why should that nonsense 'press release' be passed off as news, and a well researched news story not accompany it a day later, with additional information about all the facts in the press release?

You act as if a press release is news and cannot be questioned.

someone cannot expand on a press release with additional facts...I mean good grief!  You are giving rights to the manufacturers of press releases to speak, that you don't give to real  journalists....

Thats the world turned upside down.

Every press release, should be checked and the rest of the story released.

And your genesi examples are perfect examples of why we need this kind of journalism.  The only thing that passed for news about those items was the Genesi press release.  We needed some good reporting about that press release.  Information that the genesi awards were self funded, is most DEFINATELY news and not simply editorial.

Quite frankly I'm not against editorial....we need some good editorial too.

[Wilse]

@MikeB:

For istance the glorified "Amiga Award 2002 for bplan GmbH" announcements.......

Should someone write a *news item* about this? IMO not,

Awww, go on........ :-D

[System]

@Targhan

Thanks for taking the time actually write an article. All we generally get is regurgitated press releases, vacuous 1 paragraph descriptions of some new project that's been kicked off or lengthy discussions on the forums which tend to involve people getting caught up in ever decreasing circles of, at best, speculation and, at worst,  paranoia and even spiteful venom.

The point of your article (and correct me if I'm wrong) was to take a look at the nature of press releases and marketing speak. The type of releases you are talking about are the sort of thing that ppl on these forums and others hang on for months for and dissect in minute detail. For this reason, you wanted to take a step back and point out this very simple but pertinent fact. Whereas this point could be made in a brief post, it would likely not hit target so you took the time to present it in an entertaining manner and provided some (dare I say it?) validation for what you were saying.

Some people were gracious enough to treat it as something that was an enjoyable contribution but hardly earth shattering. Others, not seeing the wood for the trees, have jumped on it in the same way that those official informational tid-bits are jumped on. The point, I fear has been largely missed.  

Please don't be put of writing items of this type again. You have a good style and I'd very much like to hear more of what you have to say.

[Andre.Siegel]

For istance the glorified "Amiga Award 2002 for bplan GmbH" announcements. While in fact 1) Genesi was the main sponsor for this Award 2) Polls for ARC visitors show that the AmigaOS/AmigaOne solutions were still by far the most preferred solution in comparison. This was backed up by various people who asked aroundl, including Petra.

You are, of course, wrong on all accounts. The Amiga Award was initiated by Falke Media (publisher of German AmigaPlus magazine). They were also the main sponsor of the official "Amiga Award." What Genesi sponsored, was last year's "Special Amiga Award" which was given to the best software developer. Did MorphOS win? No, it was not even on the list of options.

As for any ARC polls, the winner of the Amiga Award was chosen by the readers of AmigaPlus, not visitors of the ARC show in Aachen. People could vote either by snail mail or the official Amiga Award website. So whatever was said by visitors of the show, it did not matter with regard to the Amiga Award. Moreover, please note that while many people might prefer an AmigaOne because it will be capable of running AmigaOS4.0 out of the box whenever this gets released, this does not mean these people think that the AmigaOne product is the better hardware solution. This should be fairly easy to understand, even for people with a certain lack of intelligence.

If you have any more complaints about the organizers of the AmigaAward being open to bribery, feel free to mail them directly. You can find various contact addresses at the AmigaPlus Website ...

Regarding the Amiga Award statistics, everyone can take a look here. There were 2200 voters from all around the globe.


Suffice it to say, this accusation was really poor.

André

[System]

@Downix

OT but I love the avatar! - I'd passed a couple of posts before I actually spotted it.

You should try buying fuel in the UK though - Ouch!  :-o