Gold 2.7 release for the Vampire accelerators

[grond]

Vasalia still has(had) legitimate copies of 3.9 available not so long ago.

How does one recognise a legitimate copy of 3.9? With Hyperion and Cloanto licensing stuff they themselves previously claimed not to have any rights to (and well founded doubts about a lot of the claimed rights), it would be nice to know how to tell a legitimate copy from a greycopy.

[PPC]

The question is not "whether you have to", but "who is distributing software that infringes copyrights".

Lets put the discussion in another way (it's a valid point nevertheless by Thomas).
I also posted this idea on EAB and i hope this gets something going.

OS3.9 BB2 is now very old (released in 2002).
Maybe a new OS3.x version can be created that has all/most goodies inside that now can be found in coffin.
This together with the new upcoming KS ROM's from Hyperion would be a very nice package.
And maybe some deals could be made for example with the author from Roadshow to include a demo version and maybe some other nice software packages/contributions.

Specially with the Vampire cards selling like hotcakes and after the release of V4 and hopefully V1200 the sales of vampire cards will only get more.
In other words there is nice business opportunity here for all.

Like i said before, i did create my own beyond 3.9 BB2 install from official and legal software (i always buy my Amiga software legit to support the devs) but it was a whole lot of work, took me months to get on the level where it is now.
Most users do not want to go down that road and just want to get up and go fast, Coffin offers this.
Now the question is can there be a legitimate way to offer users the same as with coffin/Apollo OS whatever.
For starters i would be very happy to pay for such a product saves me a ton of work!

[kolla]

@Neuf

You dont have to use Coffin OS with your Vampire.

This is not about "Coffin", this is about the kickstart that comes with the core files that they release.

Some of us stick with the original AOS3.1, selfmodified with addons, like everyone has done since the 90s.
Some use other versions, lncluding purchased Vesalia 3.9's.

It is not "original AOS3.1" when you boot from a "3.10" kickstart with updated shell and whatnot from OS3.9.

And some use AROS.

Which is bootstrapped on its own, from AmigaOS.

Basically you would run the Vampire like you did/do with your current legacy hardware, just faster.

Provided your legacy hardware has a "homebrew" 3.9 kickstart on an EPROM.

[kolla]

Kolla, what's wrong with you? This is my text. How come you care about copyright lately?

I don't care about copyrights, I care about Apollo Team getting a free card while others get sent cease and desist letters if they put AmigaOS "distros" up for download, let alone commercially sell hardware products with "illegal" software loaded on them. Either Apollo Team have to abide by the same rules as everyone else, or EVERYONE (and their dogs too) get freedom to ship kickstarts and OS distros as they see fit.

[kolla]

And I ask again - on so many occasions and in media, podcasts etc, it has been stated over and over the "ApolloOS" (today "Coffin") is not at all done by "the team", but some "anonymous enthusiast". So it turns out that this "anonymous enthusiast" is actually Renaud "TuKo" Schweingruber, whos associations with "the team" is so close that he on several sites talks and acts on behalf of them, has "Apollo Team" on his profile and all. He is also the guy who seems to run http://www.apollo-accelerators.com (according to whois-info, he owns the domain), which is the site from where one orders cards and download cores. How this is "not by the team" is becoming irrelevant. When users come with problems on the apollo-core site, among the first questions they get from "the team" is what version of ApolloOS, and if it isn't, they suggest try with ApolloOS - especially for "new users and people who have not used Amiga maybe since 1.x days" - this while also maintaining a rumour that "oh, but all vampire owners already bought OS3.9 years ago". Some people are more equal than others, I suppose.

[guest11527]

How does one recognise a legitimate copy of 3.9?

By having the nice CD with the boingball logo on it, for example. The boingbag (what a stupid name) installer checks for something on the CD, I would go check there for the technicalities.

[kolla]

Most users do not want to go down that road and just want to get up and go fast, Coffin offers this.

Isn't one of the strongholds of AmigaOS that is it supposedly is so much simpler, easier and more elegant than say... Windows, Mac and Linux etc?

Apparently not.

In my view "most users" is nothing but a myth, a sorry excuse that developers and programmers use when they have nothing else tangible to say.

Now the question is can there be a legitimate way to offer users the same as with coffin/Apollo OS whatever.
For starters i would be very happy to pay for such a product saves me a ton of work!

Maybe one should think of this _before_ shipping and offering downloads??
Oh, but you did, and decided to ignore it all.

[guest11527]

OS3.9 BB2 is now very old (released in 2002).
Maybe a new OS3.x version can be created that has all/most goodies inside that now can be found in coffin.

3.1.4 is supposed to become that, or at least, the "core of such a system" in the sense that includes the necessary core components that allow extension by third parties to their likings. The problem is that 3.9 consisted of various third party contributions that are out of reach. 3.1.4 will not contain any third party contributions, just the Os core.

So, for example, there are sufficient rights to include newer versions of workbench, icon, setpatch, FFS and a lot of other stuff, but Reaction is a H&P inhouse development H&P holds rights on, and for that reason, it cannot be included. So there is a lot of work going on backporting or extending 3.1 components to work without such contributions to the Os.

Doing it right is of course a lot more painful than just stealing what you want... Yes, you can still buy 3.9, so please no arguments in this direction. It is an accessible product.

[grond]

By having the nice CD with the boingball logo on it, for example. The boingbag (what a stupid name) installer checks for something on the CD, I would go check there for the technicalities.

And since it is technically impossible to recreate such CDs from one original copy, this must be taken as proof that the copy is legitimate?

[grond]

I care about Apollo Team getting a free card while others get sent cease and desist letters if they put AmigaOS "distros" up for download

Now that you put it this way, the Apollo Team seems even cooler.

[Lord Aga]

In all honesty, Kolla seems to be the best promoter of the Apollo/Vampire projects

Just like flat-Earthers make you like science

[OlafS3]

Not pure, Just 99.999999999998603 % negative, for some strange reason.

Btw, now that it is clear that Tuko is the person behind ApolloOS - is he part of the Apollo Team or is he not? He has labeled himself "Apollo Team" on EAB for example - how was it about ApolloOS _not_ being officially made, endorsed or supported by the team, but rather by some "rabid enthusiast"? I see the kickstarts that comes with cores are pretty much OS3.9 kickstarts, including bits and pieces like the latest shell update from ThoR and more.

As someone who owns two Vampire cards, I want to know the distribution rights and licenses for the software that I have download along with the core updates - is the content of the kickstart exclusively licensed to the Apollo Team? If so, where is the statement from the copyright owners about this? The websites are totally silent, both Tuko's http://www.apollo-accelerators.com and Gunnar's apollo-core.com - the changelog (http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/files/ChangeLog) says nothing.

If there wasn't so much BS surrounding the entire Apollo Core project, there wouldn't be any reason to be stir the pond, but the way the team operates, it is very hard to not raise a few questions - questions that no-one seems willing to answer properly to settle any doubts.

you just nerve, you are aware of

do us a favor and search for another hobby

[OlafS3]

Not pure, Just 99.999999999998603 % negative, for some strange reason.

Btw, now that it is clear that Tuko is the person behind ApolloOS - is he part of the Apollo Team or is he not? He has labeled himself "Apollo Team" on EAB for example - how was it about ApolloOS _not_ being officially made, endorsed or supported by the team, but rather by some "rabid enthusiast"? I see the kickstarts that comes with cores are pretty much OS3.9 kickstarts, including bits and pieces like the latest shell update from ThoR and more.

As someone who owns two Vampire cards, I want to know the distribution rights and licenses for the software that I have download along with the core updates - is the content of the kickstart exclusively licensed to the Apollo Team? If so, where is the statement from the copyright owners about this? The websites are totally silent, both Tuko's http://www.apollo-accelerators.com and Gunnar's apollo-core.com - the changelog (http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/files/ChangeLog) says nothing.

If there wasn't so much BS surrounding the entire Apollo Core project, there wouldn't be any reason to be stir the pond, but the way the team operates, it is very hard to not raise a few questions - questions that no-one seems willing to answer properly to settle any doubts.

3.9 kickstarts? 3.9 kickstarts do not exist or you are changing history now

[OlafS3]

And I ask again - on so many occasions and in media, podcasts etc, it has been stated over and over the "ApolloOS" (today "Coffin") is not at all done by "the team", but some "anonymous enthusiast". So it turns out that this "anonymous enthusiast" is actually Renaud "TuKo" Schweingruber, whos associations with "the team" is so close that he on several sites talks and acts on behalf of them, has "Apollo Team" on his profile and all. He is also the guy who seems to run http://www.apollo-accelerators.com (according to whois-info, he owns the domain), which is the site from where one orders cards and download cores. How this is "not by the team" is becoming irrelevant. When users come with problems on the apollo-core site, among the first questions they get from "the team" is what version of ApolloOS, and if it isn't, they suggest try with ApolloOS - especially for "new users and people who have not used Amiga maybe since 1.x days" - this while also maintaining a rumour that "oh, but all vampire owners already bought OS3.9 years ago". Some people are more equal than others, I suppose.

Where do you know who is behind "ApolloOS"? And yes distribution certainly is illegal, not just because of based on 3.9. Because of that it is unofficial.

[kolla]

3.9 kickstarts? 3.9 kickstarts do not exist or you are changing history now

You know perfectly well what I mean - Apollo Core  comes with a 3.10 kickstart even. Do they exist?

[kolla]

Where do you know who is behind "ApolloOS"?

From apollo-core.com - it was stated by people who knows and who clearly don't know when to be quiet, that it was toku who is the person who decides to replace FFS with pfs3aio for latest R49 or whatever the latest is.

And yes distribution certainly is illegal, not just because of based on 3.9. Because of that it is unofficial.

Yeah, very "unofficial", when it is promoted, supported, and maintained by the very same person who owns the domain that officially are selling the product it is made for. This "unofficial" label is utter nonsense.