A little rebuff to global warming

[Fade]

Won't make the "Doom & Gloom crowd very happy.

But then are the Doom & Gloom crowd supposed to be happy? story

Watch them come out of the woodwork on this.

[KennyR]

Right Wing America vs. the World again on global warming. Why am I not surprised?

Anyway:

Fox spokesman Jeffrey Godsick says, "The real power of the movie is to raise consciousness on the issue of (global warming)."

Yeah, and my arse plays the harmonica.

It's a special effects movie to make money from cinema, DVD, and promotion. It could be about a giant lizard from Mars, it wouldn't matter - they just wanted scary and impressive effects. It's political and environmental values are exactly zero.

I think the anti-global warming crowd are just taking this opportunity to try to launch yet another publicity drive against a firmly supported theory held by tens of thousands of experts and scientists in 170 countries. Actually, I had expected the accusations to come from the other side first. Seems America's industrial ruling class and their pocket 'scientists' preempted it. Like Saddam's WMDs.

But of course, it's good publicity for the film, so many palms will be greased anyway.

[Fade]

@ KennyR
"It's political and environmental values are exactly zero."
------------------

Think so!
The Democrats are already jumping on this with both feet.

Quote from Al Gore yesterday.
"Gore said, "Millions of people will be coming out of theaters on Memorial Day weekend asking the question: 'Could this really happen?' I think we need to answer that question."

But you can't put anything by KennyR!

[KennyR]

Then the 'crats should pick a better movie. Using The Day After Tomorrow for environmental awareness is like using Braveheart to learn Scottish history. Both are Hollywood fluff with only tenuous links to fact.

[Fade]

@ KennyR
"Then the 'crats should pick a better movie."
-------------------

Oh they did once. They picked "The China Syndrome".
Guess what? They killed off every nuclear power plant that wasn't already on line, and there hasn't been a new one built in the US since. Think about the billions of dollars the energy companies paid to build those plants that will never go online. Who ends up paying for that cost? Yep, Joe consumer. But do the Democrats care?

On top of that, the "Dims" all want to send the nuclear waste from the NE US plants to New Mexico. Talk about your hypocrites.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Fade wrote:
@ KennyR
"It's political and environmental values are exactly zero."
------------------

Think so!
The Democrats are already jumping on this with both feet.

Quote from Al Gore yesterday.
"Gore said, "Millions of people will be coming out of theaters on Memorial Day weekend asking the question: 'Could this really happen?' I think we need to answer that question."

But you can't put anything by KennyR!

:roll: politics

[KennyR]

Well, that's human beings. Tell them that there is a near 100% certainty of a meteorite impact killing 30% or more of life on Earth's surface in the next 20 million years, and you'll get:

"Bah, what do scientists know?"

"It doesn't say it in the Bible, so it won't happen."

"They could be wrong."

But show them Armageddon with Bruce Willis and suddenly nuclear shelters are selling again and meteorite impacts are on everyone's minds. And Nostradamus predicted it all. And the Bible did too. That must be how Judgement Day will come, blah blah...

And don't politicians love it. But its not just the democrats who take advantage of popular myths - they all do. Yes, even the GOP.

[Tigger]

KennyR wrote:

I think the anti-global warming crowd are just taking this opportunity to try to launch yet another publicity drive against a firmly supported theory held by tens of thousands of experts and scientists in 170 countries. Actually, I had expected the accusations to come from the other side first. Seems America's industrial ruling class and their pocket 'scientists' preempted it. Like Saddam's WMDs.

As usual, real scientists tell KennyR his most popular myth (actually Nessie is his most popular myth but we'll talk about that later) Global Warming isnt happening and he rants about the 1000's who believe in it.  Tell you what Kenny over 1 Billion people believe in Noah and the Ark, that doesnt mean its a scientific fact.  If you want to believe in Global Warming, thats great, if you want to talk science, then put some up, or just go away.
      -Tig

[KennyR]

You know what, Tigger? Your country is probably the only place in the world where one can find a scientist who will actively aoppose global warming theory. Isn't that a little strange to you? Doesn't it ever occur to you that it's you who might be the one who's believing in a myth?

Anyway, since the greater part of the scientific community (and it's excellence) are behind my argument, I can simply dismiss US claims, just like I can dismiss orgone or faith healing. You can believe in super carbon traps or Noah or Nessie all you like, it doesn't change the mountain of evidence.

[FluffyMcDeath]

Fade wrote:

Quote from Al Gore yesterday.
"Gore said, "Millions of people will be coming out of theaters on Memorial Day weekend asking the question: 'Could this really happen?'

That's probably true.

I think we need to answer that question."

That is also true.

Two true sentences next to each other. Better than Bush can do.

[FluffyMcDeath]

Fade wrote:
Won't make the "Doom & Gloom crowd very happy.

This is just a movie review saying that the science in the movie is bad. That's completely normal for a movie. The only quote from the thing that seems to be from a scientist says:

Carl Wunsch, a professor of physical oceanography at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, knows more about ocean currents than most anyone. He thinks the nonsense in The Day After Tomorrow detracts from the seriousness of the global-warming issue.

Did you read that? detracts from the seriousness of the global-warming issue. Doesn't say he thinks global warming is nonsense, implies that it isn't but that this movie makes it look like nonsense.

As to the Atlantic Conveyor / Gulf Stream -

Historically it has shut down from time to time and when it does it does it on very short timescales and takes a while to get going again. It is quite dependant on Northern waters maintaining high salinity and that can easily be threatened by polar melting.

http://www.destinasjontromso.no/gulfstrmmens_historie_eng.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/wcalvin/teaching/Broecker99.html

BTW, seems that Russia will now ratify Kyoto. Oh that devious Pooti-poot.

[Fade]

@ FluffyMcDeath
"BTW, seems that Russia will now ratify Kyoto."
---------------

Fluffy, do you really think Russia ratifying the treaty will make any difference in Russia?

They don't have enough money to buy next weeks bread much less clean up any pollution. Look at their nuclear fleet for example. When one sub. or ship breaks down they just take it to the ship graveyard and abandon it, nuclear waste and all.

Despite all the good intentions from Japan, Canada and the EU community on this, the rest of the signatories to this treaty are only in it for the money they might make by selling pollution credits to other countries. I think some day most of these poor countries will regret signing it when they have sold their excess credits and have to really do something about their own pollution.

[Tigger]

KennyR wrote:
You know what, Tigger? Your country is probably the only place in the world where one can find a scientist who will actively aoppose global warming theory. Isn't that a little strange to you? Doesn't it ever occur to you that it's you who might be the one who's believing in a myth?

Thats funny Kenny, since I've quoted you lots of things from non-US scientists that say the same thing about the Global Warming Myth.  We have the huge space conspiracy you believe in, where every nation with a weather balloon, satellite or astronaut is helping NASA fake the cooling effects that directly contradict the IPCC report you currently are in love with.  You completely dont want to talk about how 20 years ago your alma mater taught global cooling with the same fervor they have not instilled in you about global warming, I know, I know, this time they are right, right??  
      -Tig

[FluffyMcDeath]

Fade wrote:
@ FluffyMcDeath
"BTW, seems that Russia will now ratify Kyoto."
---------------

Fluffy, do you really think Russia ratifying the treaty will make any difference in Russia?

Yes. Sure, but it will also make a difference in the rest of the world and could hurt the US (which would be part of the reason why Putin is doing it). He's doing it to get conscessions on joining the WTO, so now he'll be in the WTO with an edge. It also makes the US the bad guy in not ratifying. It isolates the US and gets Russia in cosy with the Euros. Now the US can't say that they won't ratify because the Russians won't as they will.

With China and Russia basically on board and most of the industrialised countries, they can start putting the screws to the US via the WTO.

[FluffyMcDeath]

Tigger wrote:

[...] where every nation with a weather balloon, satellite or astronaut is helping NASA fake the cooling effects that directly contradict the IPCC report you currently are in love with.

What NASA data shows cooling effects that directly contradict the IPCC. Are those the studies that show changing heat distribution in the atmosphere where some latitudes and altitudes show cooling? Or is this some data that shows that everything is cooling?