Wanna live longer? Stop other people smoking!!

[KennyR]

@AccyD

The issue here is that, whether you enjoy smoking or not, you've doomed yourself to an early grave and have a fair probability of dying in shocking, lingering pain. I tell you that for your own good. By banning public smoking, the government make sure you don't pass this deathwish onto people who didn't have the choice.

Considering the density of the traffic these days I would think that you are more likely to become ill due to the traffic fumes than the brief one second that you may pass a smoker on the street.

The pollution levels in the average club or pub are so high, if it was a workplace youd'd be forced to wear protective equipment. Otherwise you could sue your company.

[KennyR]

AccyD wrote:
As long as people have all of the information availiable to them, these choices should be allowed to made, otherwise what type of people has our society raised if they are not allowed to make their own decisions??

Yes, and that's why they're banning smoking in public places - allowing people to make their own decisions.

But people do have a choice. If you do not wish to sit in a pub where smoking is allowed, there are not policemen at the door forcing you to stay, you can go and find another where smoking is banned. Similarly, if you do not wish to work in a smoking environment then you are free to leave.

Supposing they want to sit in that pub, but without the smoke? Smokers are taking away their choice to do that. That would usually be just a case of compromise, settling on whatever is best for both parties. But the health aspect makes compromise impossible. Smokers kill themselves, and they also kill non-smokers. The government, as democratically elected representatives of the people, have a duty to prevent both, especially the latter.

The compensation culture has gone mad these days, no one forces anyone in these industries to work in the environment, it is a matter of choice.

This has nothing to do with the compensation culture. It has everything to do with the unions trying to prevent new waves of asbestosis. I'm afraid when it comes to work safety, it is NOT in the hands of the employee to choose how they work, for many reasons. One is that they become a liability to others. Therefore, if anyone feels like taking risks, they can do it in the job queue. The world has moved on from the days of profiteering from endangering the workforce, and making them believe they're doing it of their own free will. They never were. And that's why it was changed. Now this is being extended socially.

[KennyR]

AccyD wrote:
But doing nothing about the pollution from cars?? Double standards??

The pollution of cars has no bearing here. It's a necessary evil - although we can tax needless drivers and more polluting cars off the road. Smoking is not necessary. It doesn't transport people. It doesn't keep Britain moving. And the taxes it generates could come from something else just as easily.

The person who owns the pub makes that choice - they will make the decision based upon their estimate of the best way to maximise profits, if they view keeping smokers custom to be better than losing non-smokers then it is their business and they should be allowed to do as they wish.

Government vs. capital, government wins. Which is how it should be. I'm damn sure I never voted for any investors.

I hate to break your jaded view of the unions but they actually love the compensation culture as they can recommend firms to their members to fight their case and they get a nice kickback from any succesful claims made. I know from a friend who has dealt with the mineworkers claims - the NUM love the compensation courts.

Or am I just being a little bit cynical/truthful??

No, just plain, totally wrong. The unions don't get money from claims made, and never have. My father is a union secretary AND a safety executive and has never made a penny from what he does. It's his job and he's proud to do it. In fact, he has to do it - often for no gratitude, far less kickbacks. The people he helps don't need to give him anything, so they don't.

The laws for work safety are quite clear. You can ask your present workplace's union to furnish you with a copy. You can also look at the history of workers in the UK to see why such laws are in place.

And besides, if anyone gets to make a claim they are usually in such a state they need it. Deafness, asbestosis, trauma, you name it. It's not like America where you can stub your toe robbing a store and get $3 million.

Firstly, how is allowing a person to choose whether or not they work in a smoking atmosphere making them a liability to others??

For a start, there's the NHS bills...

Secondly, exactly how much do you feel that the state has to intervene in employment and life in general? Is this because you feel that we are incapable of making our own decisions and being responsible for the consequences of those decisions?

The very idea of you smoking when you know what it can do to you and people around you provides me with an excellent example of why you cannot be considered to be totally reponsible for all your own decisions. In the same way people would be pretty offended if I decided to use my chemistry knowledge to make poisons and bombs. There are laws against that too. Laws for a reason.

We are all capable of making our own decisions and living by those results, please credit your fellow countrymen with the intelligence to decide how they live their life.

 
There's always a thin line between social responsibility and freedom, and allowing tabacco companies and pubs and clubs to profit on our death and misery is well over that line.

[KennyR]

AccyD wrote:
Let business owners make their own rules not the Government, if publ;ic opinion is strong enough then they will follow.

No, because the only thing they are interested in is profit, and don't mind if we suffer for it. On the other hand, governments have to cater to us or we vote them out. There's not really an option here.

Free market...urgh. If it was really free then I could buy guns, nerve gas, child porn, slaves and plutonium. Thankfully, we live in a more civilised world.

[KennyR]

Smithy wrote:
But the simple fact is that it looks well cool.

So does riding a motorbike at 110mph without a helmet.

Looks cool? You must be kidding. Smokers have dull eyes, lifeless hair, bad skin, and yellow teeth. They hawk up big chunks of thick phlegm and spit and cough all the time. They smell bad. If that's cool, I think I should catch the Black Death. Those festering black buboes would be more impressive to the "smoking is well cool" crowd.

People who smoke just to conform are weak minded. That's why I'd expect it of teenagers, not grown men.