Teleportation

[Dandy]

motorollin wrote:

Karlos wrote:

if the original person is not destroyed before their clone is reconstructed at the receiving end, they are not the same person anymore

...
I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here as I don't really buy the concept of the soul.

Well, fo me "soul" = "consciousness"

motorollin wrote:

But don't you think it's possible that destroying the original body would effectively kill any non-corporeal element of the person's existence? (just like if they died). The duplicate might end up a soulless being.

If really "soul" = "conscious" and if "an exact duplicate of the same brain physiology and chemical layout results in an identical, or even shared, consciousness", I would say the duplicated being should still have its soul, provided it had one before the duplication...

motorollin wrote:

Karlos wrote:

I would imagine the cloned entity would eventually develop some form of neuroses deriving from the knowledge of the destruction of their original self

I'm not sure about that. Assuming that their body was *exactly* as it was before, and they retained all of their memories and personality traits, then their sense of continuity of the self would be preserved (as in your sleep example). I don't think the destruction of their old body would be as much of an issue for most people as you think since they don't 'lose' anything. But again, we just don't know.

--
moto

Hmmmm - I think of it like of an backup of an HD.
Once you have your backup, you can destroy the original machine and restore the backup on a new, identical one (identical to avoid hassle with the HW drivers).

Provided that the backup was O.K., I would not expect any loss of data...

[Dandy]

Boot_WB wrote:

[geek]
Your original description of the star trek teleportation method is inaccurate.
The original is not scanned, transmitted, recreated from stock matter and the original destroyed. The body is scanned, matter is converted into energy, energy is transmitted, and the same energy (in whatever form star trek boffs decided it exists) is then reconverted into matter at the other end. Consequently there is no cloning, no need to "kick start" the body (as the original matter is recreated in its original energy state.
...
[/geek]

In one of Stephen Hawking's books I read that one can look at matter as "energie, that has been slowed down below the speed of light".

If one succeeded to exceed the speed of light, the matter of his body would be transformed to energy at the very same moment he exceeds the speed of light.

In this context it might be interesting to read into the Heim theory (sorry - German only) (Burkhard Heim, German physician, 1925 –2001):

"The enhanced uniform quantum field theory of Burkhard Heim

1.
Scientists like Einstein assumed non-material dimensions already long ago.
Since about 20 years this assumption is seen as secured by observation and conclusions.
It has been proven mathematically for the first time by the German physician Burkhard Heim (1925 - 2001; Wikipedia: Burkhard Heim (engl.)).

2.
The cognitions of the existence of informational spaces, so called "Hyperspaces", and the existence of physical spaces, so called reference spaces, as well as the consecutive explanations of the Heim doctrine are fundamentally deciding for the evaluation of the transmission of information without physical equipment.

3.
..."

EDIT:
Wikipedia link (engl.) added
"New Scientist" link (engl.) added
"Elementary Structures of Matter" link (engl.) added

"New Scientist" on Burkhard Heim

Elementary Structures of Matter

[Dandy]

Dandy wrote:

...
In this context it might be interesting to read into the Heim theory (sorry - German only) (Burkhard Heim, German physician, 1925 –2001):

"The enhanced uniform quantum field theory of Burkhard Heim

1.
Scientists like Einstein assumed non-material dimensions already long ago.
Since about 20 years this assumption is seen as secured by observation and conclusions.
It has been proven mathematically for the first time by the German physician Burkhard Heim (1925 - 2001; Wikipedia: Burkhard Heim (engl.)).

2.
The cognitions of the existence of informational spaces, so called "Hyperspaces", and the existence of physical spaces, so called reference spaces, as well as the consecutive explanations of the Heim doctrine are fundamentally deciding for the evaluation of the transmission of information without physical equipment.

3.
..."

EDIT:
Wikipedia link (engl.) added
"New Scientist" link (engl.) added
"Elementary Structures of Matter" link (engl.) added

"New Scientist" on Burkhard Heim

Elementary Structures of Matter

Hmmmmmmm - no replies for half a month now.
Is no one interested in this stuff or are all still busy reading the links I provided?

Karlos???
Blobrana???

 :-?

[A4000_Mad]

This is indeed a great thread. Hopefully the top brains are just taking a break to work on some more ideas theories for us :-)

 :popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:



A4000 Mad

[motorollin]

Sorry Dandy but the mention of the name ¨Hawking¨ normally means the end of the conversation for me :lol: IMO he's a crackpot.

--
moto

[Dandy]

@motorollin:

motorollin wrote:

Sorry Dandy but the mention of the name ¨Hawking¨ normally means the end of the conversation for me

Hehe - but that shouldn't prevent you from reading/thinking about souch things.

I was 15 when I read the books of Einstein 35 years ago.
When it came to his theories, I read the parts where he described the theorie with his own words and understood his points quite well.

I skipped the parts with the formulas - they looked waayyy too frightening for me back then.

(Later - when I had learend some of the necessary mathematics - I got back to the formulas...)

Same goes for Hawking - he also describes his theories with his words - not just formulas!

I still have to read Heim's books (on the web they warn because of the heavy math stuff) - up to now I try to understand from what I find on the web - and up to now it was not always easy to follow, but nevertheless thrilling and fascinating...

[CannonFodder]

motorollin wrote:
Sorry Dandy but the mention of the name ¨Hawking¨ normally means the end of the conversation for me :lol: IMO he's a crackpot.

--
moto

A crackpot? :-?

[motorollin]

Yes, a crackpot.

--
moto

[recidivist]

 Point of interest:
 I may have missed it in this discussion but I distinctly recall Dr. McCoy hating the transporter  and objecting that it wasn't the same persn after his molecules had been scrambled and beamed through space.
 Several writers have toyed with the idea of sending the pattern by some means usually faster than light and using that pattern and local stock of chemicals  in a vat to produce a flawless copy of the body.
  It was in a Rod Serling show once;also a book I have somewhere in which a Civil War soldier is recruited to be the stationmaster for Earth,due to his isolated homestead and no close relatives.In these stories the body of the teleportee is broken down and chemicals stored for subsequent travelers on the travelers departure.

 The one that is more comfortable philosophically to me is the method in the book "Jumper";a juvenile escapism and coming of age novel. The character eventually discovers he is stepping through a "door" to whatever other place he 'ports to;he also must know the destination well enough to accurately picture it in his mind.
 Now this reminds me of the string theory of instant movement in which two points distant are momentarily considered to be congruent .

 I'm not certain but I think Heisenberg or Heidinger cat may have stayed with me;that cat could disappear in only 3 rooms and a closet;hours of searching would reveal no cat,and the next morning she would be sitting there wanting breakfast.

 Sadly,she got out whilst I was bringing in new furniture one fall day,never seen again. :-?

[CannonFodder]

motorollin wrote:
Yes, a crackpot.

--
moto

In what way do you consider him a crackpot?  He seems quite sane to me and his science is solid so I don't think he could really be described as a crackpot on either of those fronts.

I've been known to be wrong though. :-)

[motorollin]

Explain to me how the theory of infinite parallel universes, some with black holes and some without, the one in which we live conveniently being one without (which is why we can't observe their effects) is scientific.

--
moto

[CannonFodder]

motorollin wrote:
Explain to me how the theory of infinite parallel universes, some with black holes and some without, the one in which we live conveniently being one without (which is why we can't observe their effects) is scientific.

--
moto

That doesn't make him a crackpot.

[Zac67]

recidivist wrote:
 I'm not certain but I think Heisenberg or Heidinger cat may have stayed with me;

That was Schrödinger's cat all right - she never actually decided to die after all.  ;-)

[uncharted]

Karlos wrote:

How can you copy something without knowing its current state?

Easy, make sure whatever it is implements the following:

Code: [Select]


class Cloneable {
  public:
    virtual Cloneable* clone() = 0;
    virtual ~Cloneable() {}
};


and leave it up to the thing itself to worry about how it is copied ;-)

You see, if God had used Java then objects would only need to implement the empty interface Serializable and Moto wouldn't have any teleportation issues :-)

Let the Holy war begin!!!!  :lol:

[motorollin]

Apparently some theorists believe that computers will one day become powerful enough to exactly simulate the world as we know it. They have gone on to say that it is highly likely that we do in fact exist inside such a simulation.

So maybe God does use Java...

[EDIT]

I accept no responsibility for existential crises which may result from reading this posting.

[/EDIT]

--
moto

[motorollin]

@CannonFodder
The Oxford English defines a crackpot as "eccentric or foolish", and a crackpot idea as one which is "eccentric or impractical". Websters adds "unrealistic" to the list. By that definition, I think many of his ideas are crackpot ones, and he is potentially a crackpot himself. We'll probably never find out though, since he will be the first of our kind to evolve in to an energy-based life-form and move to a higher plane of existence.

--
moto