Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: T_Bone on February 18, 2004, 05:42:05 AM
-
Wish I had a picture of Putins face when this happened...
I can't find a clear description of exactly what happened, some reports said the missle launch just never happened, others said the missile launched, then disintegrated in the air.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48229-2004Feb17?language=printer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48229-2004Feb17?language=printer)
-
Putin is too much of a militarist. We'll never know what really happened, especially if a Russian sub was involved in this incident. Some US subs in the area would have recorded it, but I doubt the US would fill us in on this either.
If the missile did fail, it's not a biggie, they have conducted several successful tests in the past. However this bit about Putin on a sub (which I doubt submerged with him onboard) is generally a political stunt, much more lavish then Bush's carrier romp, but along the same lines. It does however tell us who they perceive their true enemies to be (hint: Al Qaeda/Chechens don't have a navy).
- Mike
-
They're now saying two ICBM's were fired, both disintegrating midair.
Glaucus wrote:
It does however tell us who they perceive their true enemies to be (hint: Al Qaeda/Chechens don't have a navy).
- Mike
More along those lines...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/18/wrus18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/02/18/ixworld.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/18/wrus18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/02/18/ixworld.html)
-
Yeah. I have the feeling that we might get another cold war on our hands if things don't turn... :-(
And I was hoping that it would be possible to ditch the Swedish military! Impossible, I guess! :-)
-
whabang wrote:
And I was hoping that it would be possible to ditch the Swedish military! Impossible, I guess! :-)
Naaa... I wouldn't worry about it, [conspiracy nut] Our test of SDI that coincided with, and ruined their test proved succesful [/conspiracy nut] ;-)
(Sometimes I wish I was the President just so I could make Trollish phonecalls on the red phone to other nations at times like this... "Putin, this is Bush, hey, we should go hunting soon, oh, by the way, did our SDI lasers hit your missles ok? We have an office pool going and I need the score!")
-
I cannot understand why this is news. Any person who have been in the army knows that these things happen even to the best military exercises. For example, the Americans had 'real war' missile failures where innocent people were killed and all we 've heard was that these things happen! Now, this was news...
-
Time to finish digging that bomb shelter in the back yard, the reds are coming... again...
-
Militarism is a quick and dirty road to revitalising a nation that's lost its spirit, and that's exactly what Putin is trying to do. It's also what Bush is trying to do. It's great for getting popularity fast from a conservative nation. Everyone gets jobs, the nation gets prestige, the flag gets waved, countries that have annoyed you in the past get intimidated.
The trouble, however, is once the militarist has finished parading his nice shiny tanks and planes, he realised that they're not useful for anything and that he's ruined the economy and will have to fire thousands of people who build these fine artillery pieces or use them because he's got nothing left to pay them with. He can't sell them, because militarism is unilateral and great for pissing off everyone else, and you don't want to give superior weapons to your enemies, do you?
So usually the militarist decides to invade someone with all of this otherwise useless military garbage, and take their resources instead. Which is what has happened in every militarist state from here to civilisation beginning. I can't believe that after the two greatest wars in history last century and a cold war that almost destroyed the world, people are STILL doing this crap.
-
KennyR wrote:
I can't believe that after the two greatest wars in history last century and a cold war that almost destroyed the world, people are STILL doing this crap.
Well, duh, quite rethorical.
-
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
KennyR wrote:
I can't believe that after the two greatest wars in history last century and a cold war that almost destroyed the world, people are STILL doing this crap.
Well, duh, quite rethorical.
Indeed it is, but these people don't get it. WE ONLY LIVE ONCE! :ranting:
-
Because they do not read history, you mean?
-
KennyR wrote:
Militarism is a quick and dirty road to revitalising a nation that's lost its spirit, and that's exactly what Putin is trying to do. It's also what Bush is trying to do. It's great for getting popularity fast from a conservative nation. Everyone gets jobs, the nation gets prestige, the flag gets waved, countries that have annoyed you in the past get intimidated.
The trouble, however, is once the militarist has finished parading his nice shiny tanks and planes, he realised that they're not useful for anything and that he's ruined the economy and will have to fire thousands of people who build these fine artillery pieces or use them because he's got nothing left to pay them with. He can't sell them, because militarism is unilateral and great for pissing off everyone else, and you don't want to give superior weapons to your enemies, do you?
So usually the militarist decides to invade someone with all of this otherwise useless military garbage, and take their resources instead. Which is what has happened in every militarist state from here to civilisation beginning. I can't believe that after the two greatest wars in history last century and a cold war that almost destroyed the world, people are STILL doing this crap.
In other words: We have a new cold war building up?
-
redrumloa wrote:
Time to finish digging that bomb shelter in the back yard, the reds are coming... again...
Let's hope it doesn't get that far, shall we?
Sweden has a bad habit when it comes to warring russians... :-D
-
Whabang wrote:
In other words: We have a new cold war building up?
Nah, Russia is a spent force. It's economy is ruined, organised crime holds all the wealth, Chechnya is sucking its resources dry, and its people are fed up of queuing up all day for a potato just so the government can afford to keep the Tenth Guards Shock Army equipped with tanks. You won't see another cold war from there this century.
-
KennyR wrote:
Whabang wrote:
In other words: We have a new cold war building up?
Nah, Russia is a spent force. It's economy is ruined, organised crime holds all the wealth, Chechnya is sucking its resources dry, and its people are fed up of queuing up all day for a potato just so the government can afford to keep the Tenth Guards Shock Army equipped with tanks. You won't see another cold war from there this century.
But civil war? :nervous: remember what happened in 1917? Danger ESPECIALLY lurks when people have no food.
-
KennyR wrote:
Nah, Russia is a spent force. It's economy is ruined, organised crime holds all the wealth, Chechnya is sucking its resources dry, and its people are fed up of queuing up all day for a potato just so the government can afford to keep the Tenth Guards Shock Army equipped with tanks. You won't see another cold war from there this century.
Actually I'd say that's all the ingredients for something worse than a cold war, but luckily I really don't think Putin is the man to do it. If a more hardliner gets elected, then there will be major problems.
-
Speelgoedmannete wrote:
But civil war? remember what happened in 1917? Danger ESPECIALLY lurks when people have no food.
The Russians may be poor, but food is cheap. They're not going hungry. Most people are poor, the economy is depressed, and vodka, HIV and heroin are sending people to early graves. Russia needs a cleanup, a New Deal, and a new direction. A new cold war only does one of these things.
And luckily the communist and nationalist parties have nobody with the charisma or leadership of Lenin or Hitler.
-
KennyR wrote:
The Russians may be poor, but food is cheap. They're not going hungry. Most people are poor, the economy is depressed, and vodka, HIV and heroin are sending people to early graves. Russia needs a cleanup, a New Deal, and a new direction. A new cold war only does one of these things.
Vodka has sent russians to an early grave for a long time, life expectancy in Russia is actually up, its just still very very low, because they are huge drinkers. On my cruise in Russia, I pretty much saw every crew member drink more then the average frat boy does on a weekend binge basically every night, and this was summer "White Nights" time of the year not winter when they apparently take their drinking seriously. Life expectancy in Russia they told us was 55 for a man. Also the main reason for their economic issues is they did not give up their retirement benefits when they changed from their communist system, so they still put people on the dole at 50 or 55 depending on their job, but have to tax high to keep the growing retired group in food and services.
-Tig
-
KennyR wrote:
And luckily the communist and nationalist parties have nobody with the charisma or leadership of Lenin or Hitler.
hm, maybe I should fill that void.
-
On my cruise in Russia
Just out of curiousity, how long ago was this? Btw, most people go to the Bahamas on a cruise, you went to Russia?!? ;-)
- Mike
-
redrumloa wrote:
Time to finish digging that bomb shelter in the back yard, the reds are coming... again...
:lol:
My house was built with one, we have it filled with old clothes and crap.
-
Glaucus wrote:
On my cruise in Russia
Just out of curiousity, how long ago was this? Btw, most people go to the Bahamas on a cruise, you went to Russia?!? ;-)
June 2001, A week in St Peterburg, 10 days cruising from there to Moscow with lots of stops on the way then 5 days in Moscow My parents live in Florida, I lived on the beach for years, Russia is more interesting then another return trip to the Bahamas.
-Tig
-
T_Bone wrote:
:lol:
My house was built with one, we have it filled with old clothes and crap.
As a teen in the 80's, the threat seemed real. I had a friend who's father literally had a stockpile of guns and a garage full of military grade freeze dried food. His father was no nut either, and this was not off in the backwoods somewhere(though Cuba is only ~90 miles off the FL coast). "The reds are coming", how many times did you here that? I'd bet most people our age and older still have a deep distrust of Russian people when it really comes down to it.
-
@redrumloa
Er, except here in europe where , `strangely`, the american allies were distrusted...
Something to do with `war theatre europe`...i believe...
But, like some-people say, these things are best forgotten about.
-
June 2001, A week in St Peterburg, 10 days cruising from there to Moscow with lots of stops on the way then 5 days in Moscow My parents live in Florida, I lived on the beach for years, Russia is more interesting then another return trip to the Bahamas.
Cool. I've always wanted to go to Russia. It just seems like an interesting place - even though I'm not a big fan of Vodka unless it's mixed in girlie drinks. :-D And I forgot you lived in Florida (or close to it). Gotta remember, it's still well below freezing here and it's still snowing, and if I were to go on a trip it would be somewhere with a nice hot beach! :-)
- Mike
-
redrumloa wrote:
As a teen in the 80's, the threat seemed real.
The threat *was* real! The nuclear buildup was astronomical, and the "military tension" in the air was really thick and felt by everyone. It permeated everything, even entertainment, as can be seen in cold war era movies like "spies like us", "wargames", "real genius", "red dawn", "Amerika", "The morning after", etc.
Everyone was literally waiting for WWIII. I'm dissapointed that this isn't documented very well in any documentaries I've seen, but in casual conversation, everyone in this country was talking about it. No documentary has recorded this very well.
I had a friend who's father literally had a stockpile of guns and a garage full of military grade freeze dried food. His father was no nut either, and this was not off in the backwoods somewhere(though Cuba is only ~90 miles off the FL coast). "The reds are coming", how many times did you here that? I'd bet most people our age and older still have a deep distrust of Russian people when it really comes down to it.
I didn't really "distrust" the Russians, I sort of had a certain respect for them, somewhat analgous to the way you shake hands before starting a boxing match... I don't know, hard to explain I guess. I distrusted them in the same way you distrust an opponent in chess... you know he's trying to win and you're in his way... :-)
I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but I'm kind of nostalgic about the cold war, I sort of felt safer about world stability with two superpowers posed in stasis. It felt like "order" as opposed to the feeling the world has now, it feels like anarchy now that the world isn't divided into "us" and "them. "
These ramblings have been brought to you by sleep deprivation.