Why should I use Amiga?

[Piru]

@anon123

Compared to linux, there isn't much where amiga-like systems are "better" at. MUI is quite nice GUI system. Other than that, lack of memory protection, lack of resorce tracking, missing POSIX, missing java, missing flash, missing development tools etc make them such a bit (in comparison).

Well, if you're curious about the miggy programming, give WinUAE (or E-UAE) a try. For NDK, see NDK3.9.lzx (unlzx.c).  For development environment, there's GeekGadgets (which has many GNU tools, including gcc, make et all): GeekGadgets repo. If you get serious about it, Amiga Developer CD 2.1 is a must (it contains tons of documentation and tools).

Don't get me wrong, amiga programming can be a lot of fun, but it doesn't even come close if you compare it to any serious platforms.

PS. I'm just trying to give somewhat more realistic reply here.

[spirantho]

If you can afford it, you should definitely look at AmigaOS 4.0 as it's by far the most complete AmigaOS I've used (in as much as it comes with compilers, SDK etc.) and is a very nice OS to use and code for.

The only problem is the opposite of AROS's main benefit - availability of hardware. AmigaOS 4 only runs on AmigaOne machines which are like hens' teeth. When somebody brings out a new machine, though (Sam?) be sure to check it out.
It does of course have the large advantage of being almost completely compatible with AmigaOS at a very good speed (AROS requires recompilations - you can't run Amiga binaries on it).

Unfortunately there's no easy way to test AmigaOS 4 though as hardware is impossible to come by and there's no emulators, but when hardware arrives I think it's the best solution if you can afford it. The Hyperion guys have done a fantastic job on it.

[Jose]

Just a small correction, the Amiga does have pipes, but I don't know how it relates to the thing with the same name on Linux...

Unique thing ? Well probably not unique anymore but the datatypes system rocks completely. Windows still doesn't seem to have anything similar. It's a system that allows programmers to access any data format of certain classes by a uniform interface.
Other than that, the system resource efficiency, very fast boot time and the fact that it doesn't hide itself from the user.
I was gonna say very good multitasking but Linux has had that for ages too IIRC.

[Ivanhoe]

With an Amiga ON YOUR HANDS you can do everything you can imagine:

Play the fastest and the best games you can ever imagine!

Work with esplendid multitasking,clean and beatiful programs!

Compose your own music modules or MIDI songs,among other
formats to make your music.

Animation,Painting,Network better than PC or MAC for example and of course enjoy living an amazing experience.


So its a chance you will never forget cause...

ONLY AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE.

Thank you and good evening.

[anon123]

'autodocs' sound like 'man' (manual) files from Unix, which are the bees nees! I was looking into hardware for OS4. My understanding is that it runs on PPC's, however, I can't find any other than Mac's, and Mac's have their hardware really closely integrated w/ their OS The only one i found was pegasos (http://www.pegasosppc.com/) , and im not sure it's what im looking for :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?

I'm confused, how is OS4 licensed? :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?

To clarify, pipes give the ability to pass the output of one shell command to the input of another. e.g.
ls | grep amiga
the output of 'ls' is piped (>>> | <<<) to the input of 'grep' which sorts the output based on it's content, in this case, the string 'amiga'.

I might try AROS, but i dont want to be unfair to Amiga and use an incomplete OS to make my judgement.

You say it is designed for 1 user, I assume it has multiuser support?   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o   :-o

Thanks for the prompt responses  :-)  :-)

[SamuraiCrow]

Somebody said OS4 is free but it isn't.  It's closed-source commercial software for PowerPC.  The most promising hardware platform to come into being recently for it is the SAM440EP but it isn't available for end-user consumption yet.

The pipe device is a lot different on the AmigaOS.  It has a filename so if you want to maintain multiple streams of information you can.

run list >pipe:listoutput #?
more pipe:listoutput

This script listed above will pipe the output of the list command to the more filter.  The run command causes the list command to run in a separate process.  The #? filter is the equivalent of the * of UNIX/Linux.  It means match multiple characters of an unknown number.

If you want multiuser support you'll have to write it yourself using shell scripts.

[anon123]

'If you want multiuser support you'll have to write it yourself using shell scripts.'
Could you elaborate? Is that possible? I'll see if AROS is multiuser, if not, then I'll just add it (yay for open-source!).

I would appear that piping does the same thing, just in a slightly different fashion, am I correct? It looks like pipes in amiga are like file descriptors, which are maintained, unlike in Unix, where you simply pass the stream once, without naming it. That's great! :-)

Could I build my own amiga compatible hardware from parts?  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-) Where can I find the spec's that genisi (or someone) made?

[SamuraiCrow]

Your best bet for running classic Amiga software (version 3.x) is to buy the Amiga Forever emulator package.  It has a live boot based on Linux that automatically runs AmigaOS under EUAE.  You should be able to run it on your Linux box from there.  If you want to have a real classic Amiga system, watch Ebay for an Amiga 1200 system.  It uses totally custom architecture so you can't just build one yourself.

As for NEW Amiga hardware, you'll have to wait until the SAM440EP comes out or get a MorphOS system running on the Efika motherboard from Genesi.  (MorphOS is a spin-off of AmigaOS that uses many of the same features.)

-edit-
If you want multiuser support, you'll have to use the requestchoice command from the AmigaDOS shell and place your custom user-startup settings in the s:startup-sequence file.

If you want more AROS information, check out the forums on AROS-Exec.org

[Hans_]

From a user point of view, I'd say that Amiga OS is fast and responsive, even on low-specced machines. For developers, the underlying design looks cleaner to me, and more logical. Also, seeing as development has been lagging behind, there are plenty of software projects available for you to have a go at.

AROS is not multi-user. There is a multi-user filesystem for the Amiga but AFAIK it doesn't work with Amiga OS4. Looking at the OS structures, multi-user support was planned, but never implemented. I guess that it's still on the to-do list.

For Amiga OS4 you're just going to have to wait to buy hardware. Once a motherboard is available, you should be able to piece together a machine the same way you do with an ordinary x86 PC. Just note that there aren't hardware drivers available for every piece of hardware out there. Genesi's hardware will not run Amiga OS4.

As you're into coding, utilitybase.com is a good forum for asking questions regarding the OS structure and how to use various components.


Hans

[anon123]

So amiga DOES have multiuser support, it just isn't fully used?

I meant build a box for OS4, which I think runs on PPC, or does it have a really special set up or something? Could someone explain the hardware aspect of modern amiga's to me, it's really bizarre  :-?

I'll look into Amiga forever. When do you expect the SAM440EP to be ready?

What is AmigaDOS? Is it the shell? The underlying system/kernel? A separate OS?

[SamuraiCrow]

AmigaOS 4 is almost to the release stage but won't likely be released until there is available hardware to run it on.  The SAM440EP is currently being mass-produced for customers capable of buying huge quantities.  When that's done it will be released for the common masses.  It will likely come out sometime this year but hardware for OS4 users has been difficult to come by in the past.  I have a MicroA1-c which has a prerelease of AmigaOS 4 but to get the final version, you'll have to wait until it is published.

AmigaDOS is the shell.  It is the underlying command prompt for administration purposes.  And as for the requestchoice command, it just pops up a requester with buttons on it and returns the number of the button you pressed.  It allows you to select which startup script to execute.

The ability to do multi-user filesystems has been available from the start, but AmigaOS filesystems never implemented that feature (with the possible exception of MuFS, a third-party add on).  You'll be able to access all of the files regardless of what startup script you select.  This would be like having root access on all of the accounts.  :-(

[Hans_]

anon123 wrote:
So amiga DOES have multiuser support, it just isn't fully used?

Sort of. The MultiUserFilesystem was a 3rd party file-system that implemented users/groups and login functionality. Multi-user support should really be integrated into the OS fully (into AmigaDOS in particular). Unfortunately there is no Amiga OS4 native version yet.

I meant build a box for OS4, which I think runs on PPC, or does it have a really special set up or something? Could someone explain the hardware aspect of modern amiga's to me, it's really bizarre  :-?

Yes the hardware situation is bizarre. Right now, Amiga Inc. insists that only licensed PowerPC hardware is allowed to run Amiga OS4. Amiga Inc. and Genesi hate each other for historical reasons and won't cooperate with each other. Therefore the Pegasos sadly won't run Amiga OS4, even though there's no technical reason why it can't. It would be fairly trivial for them to write the necessary drivers/bootstrap code for those machines.

Currently Amiga OS4 runs on the Amigaone hardware (I have one of these) which is no longer available for purchase. It will be available to classic Amiga owners (such as the A1200/A4000) that have PowerPC accelerators plugged in.

I'll look into Amiga forever. When do you expect the SAM440EP to be ready?

The hardware is pretty much done (see here. We're just waiting for Amiga Inc. to give them a license. Hopefully they're already working on writing drivers for it so that Amiga OS4 can run on it.

NOTE: AmigaForever is for the classic Amiga only, that's up to Amiga OS3.9.

What is AmigaDOS? Is it the shell? The underlying system/kernel? A separate OS?

AmigaDOS is the disk operating system for the Amiga. It's a sub-component of the OS that handles file access (files including pipes and other streaming devices).

Hans

[SamuraiCrow]

Hans_ wrote:
Yes the hardware situation is bizarre. Right now, Amiga Inc. insists that only licensed PowerPC hardware is allowed to run Amiga OS4. Amiga Inc. and Genesi hate each other for historical reasons and won't cooperate with each other. Therefore the Pegasos sadly won't run Amiga OS4, even though there's no technical reason why it can't. It would be fairly trivial for them to write the necessary drivers/bootstrap code for those machines.

Currently Amiga OS4 runs on the Amigaone hardware (I have one of these) which is no longer available for purchase. It will be available to classic Amiga owners (such as the A1200/A4000) that have PowerPC accelerators plugged in.

Just to clarify, the Pegasos 1 and 2 are discontinued hardware, and the Pegasos 3 only supports PowerPC Linux due to multicore processor usage.  AmigaOS doesn't support SMP currently, nor does MorphOS.

[anon123]

"It would be fairly trivial for them to write the necessary drivers/bootstrap code for those machines."
Would this require the code or deep knowledge of the machine to write? What exactly is missing? Drivers? Bootloader? Why hasn't somebody (3rd party) written it? Why can't I write it?

[Hans_]

SamuraiCrow wrote:
Just to clarify, the Pegasos 1 and 2 are discontinued hardware, and the Pegasos 3 only supports PowerPC Linux due to multicore processor usage.  AmigaOS doesn't support SMP currently, nor does MorphOS.

It the Pegasos 3 already available? Even without SMP support, you could always disable one core until SMP support is added.

Hans

[SamuraiCrow]

@Hans
The Pegasos 3 has/will have dual PowerPC 970MP processors (two cores each).  And I don't know when it will ship.

@Anon123

The bootstrap code would require that the Pegasos 2 have a licence to run AmigaOS 4.  AmigaOS 4 is not published in its final form yet.  And, as I mentioned earlier, AmigaOS 4 is a closed-source, commercial operating system.