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Author Topic: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0  (Read 5785 times)

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2021, 01:16:46 PM »
Quote
What probably is not going to work without Kickstart 3.1 is the Datatypes, that is, the sytem to internally convert file formats so the Amiga can read them easily.

That's not true. Datatypes were introduced with 3.0.

What made me cautious is that not all datatypes are Kickstart 3.0 friendly, for instance;-

https://aminet.net/package/util/dtype/PCX-DT43

Fair enough, there is a Kickstart 3 friendly datatype on aminet for PCX (and BMP, GIF etc).

While on the subject of aminet, I couldn't get your latest upload of MMUILIB to decompress on Linux for some reason. GadgetUK had some issues getting an 030 ROM shadowed a few months back, I was trying to check usage (he can't do .guides I think).

Quote
For instance, loading a GIF file on Deluxe Paint.

DPaint does not use datatypes, it cannot load GIF files in any case.

Thank you, I was unaware of DPaint's not using datatypes. I thought they worked across applications invisibly.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Online Thomas

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2021, 02:27:18 PM »

Quote
What made me cautious is that not all datatypes are Kickstart 3.0 friendly, for instance;-

Yes, but picture.datatype V43 is not part of 3.1, either. It is available seperately with RTG software like CyberGraphics or Picasso96. Its functionality was incorporated into the OS with 3.5 (= V44).

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2021, 03:06:49 PM »
Exactly. RTG generally barfs on 3,0, but can be functional on 3.1

Down to Commodore making ".1" variants the RTG friendly variants. For developers and power uses displaying in 24 bits with graphics cards.

Doesn't really matter with the stated use in this case, native AGA friendly pictures.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 03:08:05 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline wrath of khanTopic starter

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Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2021, 02:26:29 AM »
I tried loading the floppy disk icon- it says cf0: already mounted. No new icon appears. I believe i put the drivers in the correct locations...
My cf card is 16 gigabyte which is connected to the pcmcia card of course- is that more storage than the miggy can handle or?

Sorry about all the questions- i am just determined to get my 1200 running and usable until i get a vampire.

I have a harddrive cf card on the way.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 02:36:48 AM by wrath of khan »
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2021, 03:04:57 AM »
If it is just one partition, yes it's way too big for an Amiga running ROMs from 1992 (Kickstart 3.0).

Max guaranteed partition size is 2GB. You can have more than one partition, The reason is that a lot of old software will scream blue murder if they detect more than 2GB free on a partition when using old Installer software.
 
More on the matter at

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=61666

Your card may not even be compatible with an Amiga. Just try it with one 2GB partition formatted to Fat32 on a PC. 16gb is very likely to be 3.3Volt card, not 5 volt.

More on PCMCIA fitted compact flash;

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=30757
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:37:19 AM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 


Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2021, 02:41:52 PM »
Absolutely. On an A1200 or A600 with Kickstart 3.1.4 ROMs, or a heavily patched 3.1, it would show as one big disk.

16 GB hard disks didn't exist in 1992. Neither did Compact Flash.

3.1.4 was released in 2018.

Anyway, it's good news really. You do have an Amiga compatible card. It's just partitioned for a 2018 Amiga.

If you partition it again with a PC, to Fat32, one 2 GB partition (or more than one 2GB partition), it should show as a blank disk as per the advert.

EDIT: If you want pointers on how to do that, it would be helpful if you said what Os you are running on the PC side. And the version.

I'm guessing Windows 7. Or maye you are a Mac user, I don't can't tell.

Personally I use Linux, It can mount Amiga hard drive layouts and the Amiga Fast Filesystem. Less faffing around with this sort of nonsense using FAT32.

I'm in a minority there, most people prefer Windows and WinUAE emulator. They have much faster running Amiga programs than I do, although a Raspi 3b is still a mean emulated Amiga.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:18:24 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline wrath of khanTopic starter

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Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2021, 12:56:46 AM »
I have a win 10 laptop.
I don't use linux but I am waiting on a Dragonbox Pyra- a mini linux handheld computer.
Yeah, I could try formatting the card to fat32. I think i did it years ago for my old openpandora console.

But yes, a few 2 gig partitions could work. Whats your recommendation? And thanks very much for your help.
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2021, 02:22:56 AM »
DIsk Manager on Windows 10. You have to run it as Admin.

Youtube videos on using it,

Make sure you select the right disk to partition and Format to FAT32.

Always use quick format option with Compact Flash.

Debian Linux, you can just use Gparted to partition and format, Do all the installs with an Amiga, then something like;-

mount -t affs /dev/sdc0 /mnt                      <- In a Debian Linux terminal, probably need sudo at the front

To mount the drive and use it with file managers etc. Easy to copy and paste. No need for FAT32. Even Microsoft stopped allowing it for installing their own operating systems. Although formatting and using usb, compact flash and sd card is stil OK on Windows in FAT32.

Anyway, have fun with it. At least having 2 CF flash cards, you can use the PCMCIA as a sandbox to learn with.

4gb partitions are OK if you can at least half fill them with downloads. With experience you'll be able to partioin with the Amiga, copy all the Workbench files over the 16G disk, swap them over, and boot once from floppy to make the 16gB first partition bootable. Then just use the smaller disk for transfers.

It's advisable to have as few partitions as possible unless you expand the Amiga's RAM memory. Doing that also incresaes hard drive access speed very noticeably.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 02:27:57 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Online Thomas

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2021, 11:29:12 AM »

Oh come on! Don't tell such misleading rubbish!!!

You can have large harddrives with Kick 1.3 if you use the right software.

compactflash.device and fat95 are the right software to use 16 GB and even larger drives on Kick >= 2.0.

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2021, 02:16:22 PM »

Oh come on! Don't tell such misleading rubbish!!!

You can have large harddrives with Kick 1.3 if you use the right software.

The poster doesn't have doesn't have Kick 1.3

Quote
compactflash.device and fat95 are the right software to use 16 GB and even larger drives on Kick >= 2.0.

Maybe so, but the poster cannot currently acesss Aminet from the Amiga, nor any other "Right software".

We can't all fly Tomas, most of us learn to crawl first. And if you can't help, please do not post hostile, nasty comments. Anger isn't going to help this person. Or you.

I hear you mention you didn't feel welcome at Amiga,org. Maybe your mouth wrote a cheque that couldn't be cashed? I go a tar update straight after I downloaded, so prolly a problem at my end with that MMULib download.

Anyway Wraith, if the card still can't be accessed with just one 2GB partition, it's not going to work at all. Definite wrong un, send it back... although at that price, I'd have been tempted to buy it.

And play with Linux, you can probably download a ubuntu Iso and put it onto a usn stick. Most of them let you just use it prior to an install, so you cam keep your Windows and try Linux by booting from the usb stick. Makes sense if you're getting a Linux unit to see just what you'll be playing with.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 02:46:58 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Online Thomas

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2021, 03:53:30 PM »
I am not sure what you think who you are. I remember you describing that you left the Amiga scene long ago and returned only recently. Since you returned you try to give advice to other users. But many if not all of your posts give a feeling that you never had an in-depth knowledge about the inner workings of AmigaOS and surely you missed all the developments which were made while you were off. You talk in headlines like "Kick 3.1 cannot access partitions larger than 2GB". This sentence is cut out of its context and by itself plain wrong. You never explain why you think that certain circumstances would explain the symptoms. Like in this case you just assume that a 2GB limit (which does not exist) could be the cause of the problem. But if a partition size limit would be a problem, the symptoms would be different. Also you do not investigate the problem systematically, you rather start at the wrong end and tell the user to destroy the product he bought as in working condition. He paid money for it and you tell him to destroy it.

The user has all the software he needs
compactflash.device
fat95
cf0

It's a matter of copying each file to the right place on the Workbench disk. If it still does not work, there are ways to find out more before you start destructive actions. Yes, I agree it is difficult if you cannot get additional software from the internet. But there are some possible things to do.

For example the PrepCard utility should display the vendor and product names of the CF card. If it doesn't, the card is not plugged in correctly.

I am not sure but I think HDToolbox should show the size of the card regardless of its partitioning and format. If this does not work, it's worthless to continue.

If all that works we can check if the needed files are indeed in their required locations. "CF0 is already mounted" is a good start. But it only means that AmigaDOS knows the name CF0. It does not mean that it found all the required files.

In a shell window if you try to access CF0:, the error message should give more clues.

I am writing this from memory, but I think if you access CF0: and nothing happens, it means that FAT95 was not found in L:. If it says "invalid whole number" or so, then FAT95 was found but it could not access compactflash.device. If the message is "no disk in drive" it might be that the card is not plugged in correctly. Only if the message is "not a DOS disk", only then I would perhaps agree that there is something wrong with the contents of the CF card (partitioning, format). But if it works on the PC's card reader, it's unlikely.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 03:54:15 PM by Thomas »
 

Offline giZmo350

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Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2021, 04:13:43 PM »
Huh!   :o
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 04:14:15 PM by giZmo350 »
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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2021, 04:39:30 PM »
From Aminet;--

Quote

* should read disks up to 4G (more with direct SCSI option)

https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/msd95v16

FAT32 file system handler cannot access partitions over 4 gb without upgrading scsi.device. Only way to do that for Wraith is to plug in 3.1.4 ROMs to the A1200 unless he changes the partition size, then he could maybe upgrade scsi.device. Another chicken and egg situation.

I love your stuff, why be angry at me?

FAT95 handler has same issue with pcmcia compact flash-

Quote
* up to 4 GBytes of partition size for FAT16
* large harddisk support via TD64 or direct SCSI

https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/fat95
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 05:10:27 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Online Thomas

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2021, 05:18:52 PM »
... file system handler cannot access partitions over 4 gb without upgrading scsi.device.

That's not true.

Firstly partition size does not matter at all. The 4GB limit applies to the entire drive. Partitions are only limited to the drive size (and maybe by the file system structure).

Secondly if you use compactflash.device, scsi.device is out of scope. It's not used and cannot limit anything.

You posted a link to the 4GB FAQ on EAB. Why don't you read it yourself?


Offline Pat the Cat

Re: PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 15, 2021, 05:41:14 PM »
<shrug> If a filesystem handler's author says it won't work with big partitions, I'm inclined to believe them.

Yes, it certainly is trying to DIR CF0: from the shell. If it won't work there it won't work anywhere else.

HDToolbox, maybe. Cardinfo... I never got much sensible out of the Commodore one. The Aminet one, yes.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi