Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: wonea on December 04, 2002, 05:19:27 PM
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Raquel Velasco & Bill Buck / Genesi's Clarifications (http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=148&si=1) regarding the whole thing.
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Yes, let's have this thread once again.
Bring on the wooden clubs and start bashing heads!
/Björn
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It is kind of funny seeing Bill Buck's nonesense being spread as news everytime. Such guys make the Amiga community look like a daily soap opera. Everday new misinformation/FUD or childish behaviours.
It's almost unreal that this guy is actually a CEO of a company, he belongs in a kindergarten instead. ;-)
Anyway you can read Alan/Eyetech's take on this posting here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/22645) and here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/22656).
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>Bring on the wooden clubs and start bashing heads!
Yes, let's kill the people that fix the articia so we are sure to have no new machines :-x
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@cdfr
By bashing heads I meant the fighting that usually goes on in these threads.
/Björn
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Here we go again :roll:
I'm going to have to make some official announcements as CEO and CTO of Redrumloa Industries Inc. :-o
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really a daily soap :-(
i think coming/working together would be the best for such a small market. they bring it all down.
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Yes, let's kill the people that fix the articia so we are sure to have no new machines
Don't worry with or without Bill Buck there will be new boards. Whatever Bill says, IMO you shouldn't take him too seriously or as the one preaching the truth, IMO better would to hear other sides of the story as well(/only) (i.e. from Eyetech, MAI, Terra Soft, etc).
I know first hand that this guy shouldn't be taken too seriously. What is written by him in forums (or within emails) is mostly childish bluff, misinformation/FUD about 3rd parties or marketing hype.
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It is kind of funny seeing Bill Buck's nonesense being spread as news everytime. Such guys make the Amiga community look like a daily soap opera. Everday new misinformation/FUD or childish behaviours.
Thruth hurts Mike. When you will figure out that the articia is crippled and that the Amigaone won't work maybe you will understand that YOU SPREAD FUD
It's almost unreal that this guy is actually a CEO of a company, he belong in a kindergarten instead.
I though the same thing when two months ago Ben Hermans wrote on ANN that there were no bug and that the Morphos team could not figure out.
Then I though the same thing when a few weeks after Eyetech said that they have a fix for an articia bug.
This one was fixed by Bplan when they visited MAI. Since then he found other problems an fixed them with April.
No April, no working machine: As simple as that.
It is sad that Alan answered this way, I don't know how he will have working AmigaOnes now that they just have bashed bbrv.
Maybe he had no clue about the recent discovered bugs.
Eyetech could sell Pegaos boards branded AmigaOne and everyone would be happy but it will never happen with Ben cocky. :-?
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By bashing heads I meant the fighting that usually goes on in these threads.
Ok, sorry.
I thought you were a BAF like many other here
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This is all so sad, it's just unbelievable.
The great Amiga community...
Respect to the ones who originally created the real Amiga, like the A1000 i bought in 1986. If these would see what has been going on the last years, i think they would cry..
This is another sad day in a very sad year. :-x
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This is another sad day in a very sad year.
Yes, BBRV asked to join forces and Eyetech just made the wrong decision.
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Join forces?!!!?!
For someone wanting to join forces he (Mr. Buck) sure does have a strange way of showing it:
We will commence legal action against Amiga Inc. this month.
That looks more like a declaration of war to me.
Not that I want one (a war), I respect both products and the creators of them, but the recent statements by Bill Buck has lessened my view of him considerably.
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If there really exist such a thing as a BAF, those are
surely meeting their matches in the multiple BMF:s roaming
about. ;-)
Seriously, relax and try to be a liiiittle less focused on
interpreting everything solely on the basis of your own
preference - that means all of you, on all sides of the
virtual fence...
Well, it was worth a try at least.
.
SlimJim
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Thruth hurts Mike. When you will figure out that the articia is crippled and that the Amigaone won't work
I am willing to take that risk. ;-) AmigaOne betatesters did not find anything seriously wrong with these boards for a very long time. They have been running all kinds of Linux distributions on them without major problems for months now.
Therefor it is easy to understand that the original bug wasn't something you would come across on a daily basis. But regardless this bug is now fixed due to efforts of Eyetech, bPlan and MAI, nothing Bill Buck deserves any credit for.
Eyetech could sell Pegaos boards branded AmigaOne and everyone would be happy but it will never happen with Ben
They have their hands full with their AmigaOne boards and Linux MAI boards already. Many people prefer to have an AmigaOne (which can run AmigaOS4 legally). Everyone should know that one cannot just transfer a specific license to totally different hardware (similarly Mr Buck's AmigaDE claims are nonesense).
Next to the advantage of offering fully AmigaOS licensed hardware, I prefer Eyetech's AmigaOne because it already offers G4 solutions for christmas and offers me an additional 66 Mhz PCI slot.
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BAFs and BMFs, they are all BFFs to me.
BFF - Blind Fanatic Follower
/Björn
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Next to the advantage of offering fully AmigaOS licensed hardware, I prefer Eyetech's AmigaOne because it already offers G4 solutions for christmas and offers me an additional 66 Mhz PCI slot.
LOL
That's what I call a BAF.
You try so much to make people beleive that you believe it too.
We will speak about it in a few weeks.
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By the way, what does "cdfr" stand for? I could only find "Child Development (Bill Buck?) and Family Relations (Bringing the Amiga community closer together?)" on the internet.
I ask, because I want to make sure that I am not wasting my time on some anonymous troll. ;-)
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As a complement to my previous message.
BFFs reminds me a lot of the PC users that used to come to Amiga forums saying how good their PC was and by using an offensive/agressive tone tried to tell everyone what they should think or do and that their line of thinking and reasoning was the only correct one. Mocking anyone with a different view than theirs.
I guess the BFFs felt the need to take the PC advocates role now that they have become so few and far apart.
/Björn
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Things are moving very fast. We have alot to do
Yep, things are moving fast, still you seem to have enough time to post more nonsense and announcing
a name of a month...
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I was on the verge of flaming info@thendic-france.com....but better not.
Sjees! What a bunch of crap. Grow up you bunch of little zitfaced adolescents! While you're at it get a spellchecker...
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@shIva
"i think coming/working together would be the best for such a small market. they bring it all down."
In principle I've always supported this idea but the comments coming from Genesi are embarrassing.
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It's so sad Mike watching you throw away the last shreds of being a respectable author and turning into nothing but a shrilled Sock Puppet.
Dammy
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It's so sad Mike watching you throw away the last shreds of being a respectable author
Come on now Randy, this is all just hilarious. And by the way, since when have you (of all people!) decided to become a moralizer. ;-)
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MikeB: Thanks for the links to Alan's replies.
I find this whole thing embarassing. I really wish people wouldn't do this kind of crap.
I have to say that I am in awe how Bill, Fleecy, Randy and gang can put up with this stuff on an ongoing basis. I know that by now I would have hired the people is the white cube vans to take care of this.
:-D
I am eagerly awaiting my G4 from Livewire.
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ter: MikeB Date: 2002/12/4 15:07:26
Quote:
It's so sad Mike watching you throw away the last shreds of being a respectable author
Come on now Randy, this is all just hilarious. And by the way, since when have you (of all people!) decided to become a moralizer.
The war is about over and the community needs to pull together. I've attempted to show it can be done and let bygones be bygones. But no, you have to still charge in and make further rips in the Community. You know, the community you say you like so much and do so much for? Your just a partisan Sock Puppet who mouths what your Puppet Master wants to be said in public.
But there are those like me who will point out that those of your ilk on AmigaMMC's SuperDuper Secret ML, do not speak for the Community, but against it.
I threatened long ago after reading Hyperion's silly nonsense against bPlan/MOS to buy a Pegasos. Depending on what 2003 has in store for me, I just may go ahead and do it. Perhaps then I can finally bare to take the old Amiga out to the trash. I almost did it a few years ago, I just didn't have the heart to do it. Now, I'm almost ashamed to be even connected with a community with people like you publically claiming to be apart of it.
Dammy
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The war is about over and the community needs to pull together.
I wouldn't call your 100% certain claims of Amiga bankruptcy a result of a so called "war". And what exactly ended this "war" in your eyes?
Your just a partisan Sock Puppet who mouths what your Puppet Master wants to be said in public.
If you mean Bill McEwen as being the "Puppet Master", he actually thinks it would be best to ignore people like you or Bill Buck. This to avoid those nasty flamewars on Amiga forums.
I threatened long ago after reading Hyperion's silly nonsense against bPlan/MOS to buy a Pegasos.
Why threaten people? Why not just buy one, why should others care about this?
And by the way, you also stated many times in the past that PPC was the wrong way to go as well as going closed source. Do you understand that MorphOS isn't x86 nor open source?
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@The CEO and CTO of Redrumloa Industries Inc.
Bah! The verbal contract with Redrumloa Industries isn't worth the paper its written on. Everyone should support Coder Inc. ;-)
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Hrmpf! What's the deal with the back-peddling?
Yesterday, the April chip added new features to Artica and now suddenly it's fixing bugs instead. :-?
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Can somebody past me the pop corn…
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When you go to Aachen you'll easily recognize the Amiga Inc. zealots, they'll have fingers in their ears acting like they have Tourette's syndrome:
"Nya nya nya nya!"
Of course, I could be wrong. We'll have to see |-)
(pity I probably won't hear what happened until the week after)
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Hrmpf! What's the deal with the back-peddling?
Yesterday, the April chip added new features to Artica and now suddenly it's fixing bugs instead.
Actually he said it does both.
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This is pretty good. Can't wait for the DVD to see all the deleted stuff and the behind the scenes.
Speculation is the Devils playground.
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@all:
Who says insults ? who spreads misinformation or FUD ? who continues the war ? who is blind ?...
Again and again and again...
I know that is easy to say what you want when peoble are misinformed on forums like this (by some famous specialists of misinformation), especially when their passion forces them to believe blindly only on the "official" way and the simple "Amiga" name (aka the Hyperion/Eyetech/Amiga Inc. group).
But, again, you can not change the reality, NEVER :
The great PowerPC Pegasos is ALREADY HERE,
The great MorphOS (AmigaOS compatible) is ALREADY HERE on Pegasos AND on Amiga Classic PPC (for 2 years).
Before to follow blindly and judge wrong, please try to see and to test YOURSELF these products already here, all these products :
Pegasos, MorphOS : there are a lot of meetings & shows for that and many betatesters around the world. After Aachen (next week-end in Germany), more and more users/consumers will own the FINAL release of the Pegasos/MorphOS at home. Seriously, it's very easy to see this reality.
AmigaOne, AmigaOS4 : there are also a lot of meetings & shows to see the AmigaOne (and to test it on... Linux). Sorry, that's the reality : you can not test the final AmigaOS4 on AmigaOne (nor on AmigaClassic PPC) simply due to AmigaOS4 is not ready and finished (when ? that's the question...). Seriously, it's very easy to see this reality.
And don't forget that ALL these projects (Pegasos, MorphOS, AmigaOne, AmigaOS4) are ALL developped by TRUE Amigans (for many years) like you (I hope you are).
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Well quite a few people have been talking about Genesi showing the Articia fault on an AOne this saturday, but has anyone really thought about it?
Alan Redhouse has already said that they were unable to reproduce the error and thinks that it may be a MorphOS problem.
Well what do you think that Genesi are going to show on 'their' AOne? It sure isn't going to be OS4 now is it?
So that means they will probably run either MorphOS or Linux. If its the former then if the bug is in MorphOS....
If its the latter, then don't forget that a lot of work was done on LinuxPPC to get it to run properly on the Aone, who's to say that Genesi have the latest version?
These are just a few ideas that I felt I should share
L8rs
Rassilon
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@jedi
I hope you're not diluting yourself in thinking that "famous specialists of misinformation" are coming from one camp alone. Passions reside on every side here, blinded by hate for Ainc, hate for Genesi, love for Ainc, love for Genesi and so on. All camps are swelling over by misinformation and misinformed people. And pointing fingers at one camp alone will not get anyone anywhere.
The most discusting of them all are people who call others BAF's and BMF's just because they don't share their love or hate for whatnot. And because they feel sooo cool sitting in their school yard clubs of internal admiration calling other people catchy names. How pathetic can people get.
/Björn
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@Jedi,
Do you know what FUD stands for? Please read the clarification by Raquel Velasco & Bill Buck one more time. Statements like:
"The is no Mai without April. The Articia does not work as promoted."
"Everything that has been promised for the AmigaOne and the Pegasos will not work without April."
"We are the poor stepchild now."
"Oh yes, you want to buy a G4 A1? Wake up people! "
"There is no leadership or vision and we need both fast or we can forget it."
"The whole Mai/YDL collaboration has changed the situation dramatically. "
Don't you think that one could say these statements could cause fear and uncertainty?
You state that the great PowerPC Pegasos is ALREADY HERE! But if I was to believe Velasco & Buck, what's already here is a Pegasos that doesn't work since it's not fitted with April.
However, MorphOS is here. But why isn't everyone rushing to buy and use it? Because it's not called AmigaOS. No matter how superior Pegasos & MorphOS may be (if it is), it can't be marketed and named an Amiga PC running AmigaOS.
Do you honestly believe that Genesis will be able to market a product as the future Amiga platform without being able to call it Amiga?
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@Fot (Hmm, that's the swedish word for foot :) Are you ingvar Carlsson ? ;) Sorry, just a joke for the swedish readers. No harm intended :)
"Do you honestly believe that Genesis will be able to market a product as the future Amiga platform without being able to call it Amiga?"
Whomever wins the mob can do just about whatever s(he) feels like, and the mob will swallow it with a smile.
/Björn
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Just to say that I prefer to believe hardware & software specialists like Gerald Carda (conceptor of Pegasos) and Ralph Schmidt (conceptor of MorphOS) than people like Alan Redhouse (reseller of Amiga products), Ben Hermans (lawyer), Frieden brothers (who try to develop an Operating System after * to port * games, that's absolutely not the same computing speciality).
And how to believe Ben Hermans (the lawyer) when he says that AmigaOS4 will be available on Amiga Classic PPC before the end of 2002 (25 days left...) and fully available (for users/consumers) on AmigaOne in March 2003 (CeBit in Germany said McEwen recently...), when they have ONLY what the MorphOS Team finished to develop * 2 years ago *...
Alan is a great reseller, Ben certainly a good lawyer, Frieden's sure good game developers, but sorry if I don't believe their estimations and plans in the AmigaOS4 development.
In reality, it's very strange : by reading the AmigaOS4 Team (beginners in high technology) we can think that is very easy to develop (or adapt) an Operating System, for example an OS4 just at the beginning. And by reading the MorphOS Team (professionals in high technology for many years) we can see that is not so easy to develop an Operating System, for example an MOS v1.0 ready to be used & sold now.
Sure, who to believe...
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"Whoever wins the mob can do just about whatever s(he) feels like, and the mob will swallow it with a smile."
Did anyone say Microsoft?
And no, I'm not Ingvar "the foot" Carlsson. :-)
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@Fot
"Did anyone say Microsoft?"
Not that I can see? (I must have missed your point there, sorry, please explain a bit. (seriously))
"And no, I'm not Ingvar "the foot" Carlsson. "
LoL :) Ok :)
/Björn
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@Fot:
Alan said : "Its a matter of public record that Thendic-France incorporated as a one-man company with the minimum 7500 euros of capital."
Sorry if I don't believe a man who doesn't know exactly what is a "SARL" company. ;)
"Do you honestly believe that Genesis will be able to market a product as the future Amiga platform without being able to call it Amiga?"
Definitely sure ! Simply because Pegasos and MorphOS are more open (portable and modern, not only the 68k to PPC port like OS4) than AmigaOS4 on AmigaOne (with dogle limitation). In fact, I'm not sure that the "Amiga" name is really an advantage to attract more people and large consumers (for majority of people Amiga is definitely dead for many years, with an old image).
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@Björn
I consider Windows users the "mob" :-)
@jedi
Trust no one! Both companies have proven to me they know how to lie, or at least they have their own perception of the truth.
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"or at least they have their own perception of the truth."
But, who is right... ;)
Answer in the future.
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@ Jedi
And don't forget that ALL these projects (Pegasos, MorphOS, AmigaOne, AmigaOS4) are ALL developped by TRUE Amigans (for many years) like you (I hope you are).
I personally believe 3rd party Amiga-like efforts should be applauded, that is not a problem for me. The main problem is that their main man/spokesman, Bill Buck is sowing FUD/misinformation among the Amiga community on a continuous basis. That they try to hype (within limits) their own products isn't a real problem either, most companies are doing so. But spreading nonesense like this about 3rd party efforts is truly pathetic.
And in my opinion the AmigaOS4 team includes many excellent developers. Also the Frieden brothers are truly among the best developers the Amiga community has to offer. MAI also seems to think so, else they wouldn't have hired them to do the work another much larger company was supposed to do.
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@MikeB:
Just a question : finally, what will you buy ? a great product ? or a "man/spokesman" ?
Be more adult.
For the moment, when I read you, and others, I see only a man who contributes to destroy the Pegasos/MorphOS products with personal (and not very intelligent) attacks directly against some persons, Bill Buck the first. You are the first to say that there are great people in the Genesi's Teams, but you can not understand (or is it your choice to do that ?...) that for many people your repetitives attacks against Bill Buck also insult all the teams and products. (It's easy to understand, and to see, that many people can not see the difference... just read the forums...).
So, if you have personal problems with Bill Buck, continue your personal attacks directly with him in private, but please stop that in public by insulting all the other teams & products. Thanks.
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@Jedi
Just by changing a few company and product names in that message you just wrote to MikeB and would suddenly make it describe yourself.
Your hands are not clean in this mess either, surely you must see that.
/Björn
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>in reality, it's very strange : by reading the AmigaOS4 >Team (beginners in high technology) we can think >that is very easy to develop (or adapt) an Operating >System, for example an OS4 just at the beginning.
Yeah, the OS 4 team are beginners in high technology.
Go tell that to people like Olaf Barthel, Thomas Richter, Jörg Strohmayer etc.
You're buying straight into Ralph's ridiculous claim that those stupid games programmers are better left doing games while the real men should do hard things like writing a kernel.
Guess what? We did do the A1 firmware, we did do a kernel and if you check the list of OS 4 developers, you'll notice that OS development expertise is clearly on our side.
We have more developers and more experienced developers.
>And by reading the MorphOS Team (professionals in >high technology for many years)
Please! You're not claiming that PowerUp is high technology?
Or even the Quark kernel?
I certainly don't claim that Exec SG is " high technology".
Not a single feature of the Quark kernel is high technology and the same goes for Exec SG.
You're clearly just an ordinary user, not a developer.
>we can see that is not so easy to develop an >Operating System, for example an MOS v1.0 ready to >be used & sold now.
You know what?
I really can't wait for it to be sold and reviewed.
It's time to finally hold this product against the light because there isn't even a simple feature-list anywhere.
It's sooo much better than OS 4.0 but we won't tell you why.
Just go and buy it.
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@ Fot & Orgin
LOL! :-D
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@Fot
Ahh, sorry, missed your answer.
I didn't refer to That mob, but the Amiga community mob :)
/Björn
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@ Jedi
Just a question : finally, what will you buy ? a great product ?
Personally as an AmigaOS fan I will buy a good product which runs AmigaOS4. My preference goes towards an AmigaOne-XE board, but if someday there would be a fully AmigaOS4 licensed version of the Pegasos board, I may buy this as well for comparison articles. The chance of actually seeing this happening is IMO very slim, especially considering all recent events.
Personally, at this point of time, I will surely not purchase a dedicated box solely for a MorphOS/ABOX solution, I would greatly prefer Amithlon instead. That is my personal opinion.
For the moment, when I read you, and others, I see only a man who contributes to destroy the Pegasos/MorphOS products with personal (and not very intelligent) attacks directly against some persons,
When I read your comments I see a person who actually belongs on morphos-news.de instead, as you can't possibly expect any of us to accept Bill Buck's crap without stating our criticism.
You are the first to say that there are great people in the Genesi's Teams
Yes there are, but that doesn't mean that I won't criticize their management.
that for many people your repetitives attacks against Bill Buck also insult all the teams and products.
And haven't you read any of the comments produced by many of bPlan/MorphOS team members against Amiga Inc related efforts? Believe me, there are thousands of such crap postings to be found all over the internet.
So, if you have personal problems with Bill Buck, continue your personal attacks directly with him in private
If he keeps his FUD/misinformation about 3rd parties internally, I will keep further criticism privately. But Bill Buck has recently demonstrated himself to be far more childish than that, actually he is the one spreading FUD/misinformation about me personally to all key webmasters/employees and even dealers.
So who is being childish here?
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@jedi
Alan said : "Its a matter of public record that Thendic-France incorporated as a one-man company with the minimum 7500 euros of capital."
Sorry if I don't believe a man who doesn't know exactly what is a "SARL" company.
Of course he knows what a private limited company is: Eyetech happens to be one.
Now a one-man company, or EURL, looks like this (http://www.societe.com/cgi-bin/recherche?rncs=434523247) (link in French). OK, so the share capital was wrong, by €500. Big deal.
As for thinking the name 'Amiga' - remembered fondly by millions - isn't a selling point, perhaps you should read up on your psychology. The VW Beetle and Austin Mini Cooper had also been "dead" for many years... So were flared trousers, and don't we all wish they'd stayed that way.
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@MikeB
Yes there are, but that doesn't mean that I won't criticize their management.
Hmm, that reminds me of something I know I've got the link here somewhere
Ah, yes: something (http://amiga.emugaming.com/carlcorp.html) quite a few people seem to have forgotten, yet it was only 6 years ago.
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@anarchic_teapot
Hmm, trying to understand what you said. So for clarification can you explain a bit deeper?
It looks like you are saying that a "SARL" is a Private Limited Company (with eyetech being such a company). And that your link links to an EURL company, but the page the link goes to says "Thendic France SARL". With the "Forme juridique" being "SARL unipersonnelle".
You got me confused :) Could you explain?
/Björn
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@ anarchic_teapot
Ah, yes: something quite a few people seem to have forgotten, yet it was only 6 years ago.
Yes it certainly seems as if Bill Buck has learned almost nothing from his VisCorp fiasco days, as CEO at the time. I feel sad for Carl Sassenrath and all other people who had to deal with his nonesense.
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@Bjorn
Your conclusions are spot on. Thendic is in fact an EURL, either that or they haven't been filing their declarations on time (not that this would be anything new, if you use the same site to look up the various companies rejoicing in the name of Pretory in France). A EURL is a French private limited company with a single shareholder, ie a one-man company.
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@Hermans:
Just a question : why don't you come personally to Aachen ?
To deliever something concrete before the end of 2002 as announced (i.e. OS4 on Amiga Classic PPC), and final OS4 on AmigaOne in March 2003, you should have great things to shown to everyone NOW, no ?...
As "OS4 Project Leader", do you know that the * minimal * betatest of the full OS4 on AOne will take you more than 3 little months ?... please, don't answer me that the tests of AmigaOne have started for 4 months or that the tests of AmigaOS4 have started for 1 year. I speach you about the time to test the complete OS4 on the final AmigaOne. I hope you don't believe that it will be fast and easy. It would be very unprofessional and irresponsible of your part.
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@ Jedi
do you know that the * minimal * betatest of the full OS4 on AOne will take you more than 3 little months?
AmigaOS4 is made up of different components. Many of these components are finished and have been undergoing beta-testing for a very long time now.
It's quite simple, image huge applications like Mozilla or OpenOffice.org available for the x86 Linux platform, does a port to PPC Linux take the same amount of beta-testing time as the orginal x86 version? No? Now you answer the question, why not?
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@Rose & Mike:
Your story is not complete...
(personally, when somebody is accused, I always listen first his personal explication. There are perhaps lawyers here, but also a lot of judges...).
"amiga-news.de: In comments on ANN both of you gave some facts and details. Petro stated that Bill and Raquel fought very hard for VisCorp (his employer those times) to buy AMIGA in the times of Escom bankruptcy. Petro said he believes bPlan are capable of managing the future. Bill stated that Thendic-France contracted bPlan to do some development work. Specifically, to develop the eclipsis. Bill, you said also your company worked very closely with Petro in 1995 and 1996. What did that mean exactly?
Thendic France: We did. Raquel and I paid the salaries and social/tax of the Amiga Inc. personnel from June 1996 through November 1996 ourselves, personally (so we had some "bucks" too...). It was the arrangement we made with Mr. Hembach, the Escom Bankruptcy Trustee, for the benefit of VisCorp and was the only way to keep Amiga alive. Our VisCorp Board agreed initially, but they did not support the effort as the details of the Escom bankruptcy became more public. It became very complicated and ultimately VisCorp cared more about its short term share price and completely abandoned the entire set-top box strategy. We were never reimbursed these funds, although we did win a legal settlement against VisCorp later (the legal issues at the time prevented us from coming public with the details). Petro worked with us and we worked hard together to sell the Amiga inventory (which reduced the transaction cost, but could not be used to pay personnel costs). In the end the VisCorp board decided not to complete the transaction and we resigned. Petro went on to Gateway; VisCorp died eventually.
We are sure that Petro will admit that without our money at the time both he personally, and Amiga itself as a complete package (the intellectual property and the significant inventory of A1200s and components), would have had a very hard time surviving. Mr. Hembach, the bankruptcy trustee, wanted to sell everything any way he could. He would have split the intellectual property into pieces and this would have made future success for Amiga impossible. Petro gets the credit for convincing Mr. Hembach to keep the package together. Helmut Jost also deserves some credit too as he was the last CEO of Escom and was retained by Mr. Hembach to assist him, while Petro kept the sales channels open and "Amiga" alive. Perhaps, it is finally time for that information to be better known. "
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@Mike:
"AmigaOS4 is made up of different components. Many of these components are finished and have been undergoing beta-testing for a very long time now."
I'm very happy that you have replied this answer, exactly what I have waited ;)
That's the classic arguments of Hermans & Redhouse.
And I say that the professionalism and serious of some people in the AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 stop here, with this bad argument.
Which (true) specialist can say that everything will well run, without problems, immediately, easy and fast, because "many of these components are finished and have been undergoing beta-testing for a very long time now" ? incredible thing.
"many" is not "all".
"components" are not the "complete system".
"beta-testing" on what ? if the answer is on Amiga Classic, please come back when you will have fully tested it on AmigaOne... ;)
These arguments are absolutely not the reasons to run directly without problems on AmigaOne, with the complete system. My personal knowledges & experience in computing tell me that (no minor) problems will appear when the AmigaOS4 Team will start to test the * complete * OS4 system on AmigaOne(s) computer(s). Also, I think that is very pretentious to consider so easy/simple an operating system of a computer (that's very not a game).
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There was no Amiga Inc. in 1996 and if Bill Buck wanted Amiga so much he could've bought it from gateway.
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@ Jedi
Bill has 0% creditibility left for me, both due to what he spreads publicly and due to my personal experiences with this guy.
The fact is that he was the CEO of VisCorp at the time and the company management was a fiasco. Certainly as CEO he has had his say and part within this whole affair, or else it would be like saying Bill McEwen has no part in Amiga Inc management, or Steve Jobs at Apple, etc.
"many" is not "all"
No, but IMO your question was answered correctly. If Ambient would have been tested on classic hardware for a year already, I believe Ambient wouldn't have been as unstable as it is today.
"components" are not the "complete system"
Yes, else AmigaOS4 for the AmigaOne would already have been finished shortly after the kernel was ported. As some components still need to be emulated Petunia integration is likely to be one of the main points of focus.
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@Mike:
"Bill has 0% creditibility left for me, both due to what he spreads publicly and due to my personal experiences with this guy."
Yeah, everybody here, and everywhere, has well understood your personal opinions of Bill Buck (you've spread them so many times :-P). But, again, that are your personal problem and point of view.
You can believe that your truth, with YOUR reasons, is a reality, but * try * to accept that our truth, with OUR reasons, are also perhaps a reality... ;)
"The fact is that he was the CEO of VisCorp at the time and the company management was a fiasco."
Do you know that Pretory is a great success ?... ;-)
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@Mike:
"No, but IMO your question was answered correctly. Believe me if Ambient would have been tested on classic hardware for a year already, I believe Ambient wouldn't have been as unstable as it is today."
That's correct. But just a correction (again) : today Ambient is NOT as unstable as you say. Last 2 months, the progress of Ambient has been very important, and you will be very (well) surprised in Aachen :-)
I would like to say, and to see, the same things for AmigaOS4 on AmigaOne (on Amiga Classic PPC it won't be a serious result for me)...
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Poster: MikeB Date: 2002/12/4 16:26:05
Quote:
The war is about over and the community needs to pull together.
I wouldn't call your 100% certain claims of Amiga bankruptcy a result of a so called "war". And what exactly ended this "war" in your eyes?
Amiga can't even afford an office since this summer. They can't afford to protect Bernie so they can make money off of sales of his work. DE was an interesting idea, but its Tao's IP, not theirs. Now it's been how long for a promised DE SDK T-Shirt? How long has it been for a promised SDK update? Guess that is something else they can't afford, to do work on their main product that cellphone OEMs won't use.
Quote:
Your just a partisan Sock Puppet who mouths what your Puppet Master wants to be said in public.
If you mean Bill McEwen as being the "Puppet Master", he actually thinks it would be best to ignore people like you or Bill Buck. This to avoid those nasty flamewars on Amiga forums.
I highly doubt your Puppet Master is that high up in the food chain. It's more likely Gary or Luca is leading you on. Don't know which, don't really care who it is either. Most of the community have realized or has begun to realize your dotcom style pitching for Amiga Inc's spin has translated into no creditability of your words.
Quote:
I threatened long ago after reading Hyperion's silly nonsense against bPlan/MOS to buy a Pegasos.
Why threaten people? Why not just buy one, why should others care about this?
As a signal that the mud slinging and FUD coming from your camp is getting so bad, even I am looking into purchasing a Pegasos. But that type of hint is evidently lost on you without someone telling you.
And by the way, you also stated many times in the past that PPC was the wrong way to go as well as going closed source. Do you understand that MorphOS isn't x86 nor open source?
I really fail to understand why you think OSS is a red flag for me. I like Linux regardless if it's OSS or not. I like AmigaOS, it's closed source (which we now see the unpleasant circumstance closed source causes like H&P's license agreements). I really wanted Berniethlon, that was part closed/open source, which really didn't matter to me. People like you and AmigaMMC have pretty much driven me to want to try MorphOS.
Good Job!
Dammy
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@ Jedi
But, again, that are your personal problem and point of view.
Nonesense, that isn't really a problem for me, however maybe it is for you as you cannot imagine anyone criticizing his childish behaviours.
You can believe that your truth, with YOUR reasons, is a reality, but * try * to accept that our truth, with OUR reasons, are also perhaps a reality... ;)
Maybe you have completely lost the topic here. This thread is about Bill Buck making wild claims with regard to 3rd party products. It is not about personal preferences nor about some sane employees amongst the Genesi team.
Can I gather from this that you think Bill Buck's wild claims are correct. ;-)
Do you know that Pretory is a great success ?
Do you know that Bill Buck is not the CEO of Pretory? ;-)
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@ Dammy
Well, it was me who confronted you with the fact that the orginal AmigaOS has never been open sourced, in response to your views on only open sourced software having any future. I simply did not agree with your views while looking at the amount of money which is being spent on Linux, while still offering rather slow and bloated solutions.
IMO to develop a good desktop OS a good fulltime (usually means commercially paid) development team is needed to accomplish this. I do see a future for open source however, but not in terms of providing innovative new technology. (Would you release innovative software as open source, so that rival companies can pick it up for free, or would you like to make money with your efforts?)
Do you suffer from amnesia or do you just have a selective memory?
even I am looking into purchasing a Pegasos.
Good for you! That would mean that you would finally actually do something instead of just trolling. IMO that's a good improvement. I am totally for people who are satisfied with Pegasos/MorphOS solutions, that they buy these products, this will even help Amiga dealers.
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oster: jedi Date: 2002/12/5 11:01:51
@Mike:
"Bill has 0% creditibility left for me, both due to what he spreads publicly and due to my personal experiences with this guy."
Yeah, everybody here, and everywhere, has well understood your personal opinions of Bill Buck (you've spread them so many times ). But, again, that are your personal problem and point of view.
You can believe that your truth, with YOUR reasons, is a reality, but * try * to accept that our truth, with OUR reasons, are also perhaps a reality... ;)
"The fact is that he was the CEO of VisCorp at the time and the company management was a fiasco."
Do you know that Pretory is a great success ?...
The only truth Mike knows is his Puppet Master's truth. If it's not his Puppet Master saying so, everyone else is saying lies/delusions/FUD. If you really want to change Mike's mind, go convince his Puppet Master, then Mike will believe you, but not before.
Dammy
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>Do you know that Bill Buck is not the CEO of Pretory
Do you know that Raquel is the main shareholder?
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@ zacman
Do you know that Raquel is the main shareholder?
No, I do not *know* that. I have only read Bill Buck's mention of this, but if this is true or not I don't know, as there have been lots of cases where I do know where Bill twisted facts.
But regardless I completely fail to see how this makes him a good CEO. Personally I may have a huge stake in a very successful company as well, but does this make my wife a suitable CEO for a company?
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@anarchic_teapot
Okie, thanks for your answer.
/Björn
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>But regardless I completely fail to see how this
>makes him a good CEO
Look this fact allows Genesi to really *invest* money
into this market and get for example licences that
no other Amiga company is able to get.
You'll see in Aachen.
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get for example licenses that no other Amiga company is able to get.
I would already be more content if they would finally release a MorphOS feature list. But of course I am also curious to know what these wonderful licenses could be, but who is your source? Hopefully not Bill Buck?
You'll see in Aachen.
Yes, we'll see. :-)
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Poster: MikeB Date: 2002/12/5 11:46:18
@ Dammy
Well, it was me who confronted you with the fact that the orginal AmigaOS has never been open sourced,
No kidding! Where the hell did I ever say AOS was open source to begin with? Hint, I never have.
in response to your views on only open sourced software having any future. I simply did not agree with your views while looking at the amount of money which is being spent on Linux, while still offering rather slow and bloated solutions.
I still say AmigaOS is doomed as it is, exactly because it wasn't OSS'd. Let's see here, supposedly Amiga Inc had WB 1.x - 3.1 and then H&P has WB 3.5 and 3.9. Then we have Hyperion with AOS 4.0 an supposedly, according to of your more fanactical zealots, AOS 5.0 work has been started by Amiga Inc. If this isn't clearly a mess to you on who owns what, ask your Puppet Master to explain to you why I say it is. Had Gateway released AOS/WB as open source under some appropriate Gateway license, we would not have this mess and a doomed OS.
IMO to develop a good desktop OS a good fulltime (usually means commercially paid) development team is needed to accomplish this. I do see a future for open source however, but not in terms of providing innovative new technology. (Would you release innovative software as open source, so that rival companies can pick it up for free, or would you like to make money with your efforts?)
That is only if it's under a BSD style license. There are a plethra of licensing schemes that allow open source but still protect the owners of the code from being taken advantage of by other companies. Again, ask your Puppet Master to explain this to you in more detail.
Do you suffer from amnesia or do you just have a selective memory?
Your Puppet Master can attempt to twist my words all he/she want, but it doesn't discredit the facts. Oh, that's right, you all don't bother with facts to begin with. My bad.
Quote:
even I am looking into purchasing a Pegasos.
Good for you! That would mean that you would finally actually do something instead of just trolling. IMO that's a good improvement. I am totally for people who are satisfied with Pegasos/MorphOS solutions, that they buy these products, this will even help Amiga dealers.
So why don't you STFU and leave the choice up to the individuals and stop spreading your shrilled BS? You and Luca pull back, I'll do the same. Talk it over with your Puppet Master and get back with me. You know where to find me. ;)
Dammy
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@ Dammy
No kidding! Where the hell did I ever say AOS was open source to begin with? Hint, I never have.
What I said at the time was that, if you believe open source to be the only possible and interesting future, why are you an AmigaOS or Amithlon fan, as both have been closed source since day one. I was just suprized to see my own arguments as yours.
I still say AmigaOS is doomed as it is, exactly because it wasn't OSS'd
And I believe the OS would be commercially doomed if the OS would be open sourced (which may also be impossible to do, due to 3rd party licensed code).
So, we disagree. The fact of the matter is that we don't own AmigaOS, so we cannot give the OS away or decide to open the sources.
IMO it would be very stupid to do this at this point, as Amiga Inc first had to pay millions of dollars for their IP and afterwards rivals could easily abuse their IP.
Anyway your insults will continue no matter what, so further discussion with you would be useless. And actually I was only curious to know why you are trying to paint yourself of as a moralizer (especially within recent threads), and it is now obvious that you are just faking.
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Jedi blithely channelled:
Do you know that Pretory is a great success ?...
Um, which Pretory would this be? Pretory USA, which had to convince its creditors, which it couldn't pay, to let it convert their accounts payable into share capital?
Pretory SARL, which has never filed a set of annual accounts in 5 years, despite its being a legal requirement?
Pretory SA, with a net result for 2000 equal to only 0.64% of its sales, debts equal to more than half the capital plus reserves, and negative cashflow?
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When you will figure out that the articia is crippled and that the Amigaone won't work maybe you will understand that YOU SPREAD FUD
You're so full of sh*t that your hair and eyes must be brown. By calling the Articia chip "crippled" you are spreading FUD you silly little FSCKWIT. I've been using my AmigaOne practically daily since I got it in June and haven't even seen this elusive bug. I'm not going to claim it doesn't exist, but its FSKING miles from being crippling. Go hide under your MorphOS bridge you satchel licking troll.
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I still say AmigaOS is doomed as it is, exactly because it wasn't OSS'd. Let's see here, supposedly Amiga Inc had WB 1.x - 3.1 and then H&P has WB 3.5 and 3.9. Then we have Hyperion with AOS 4.0 an supposedly, according to of your more fanactical zealots, AOS 5.0 work has been started by Amiga Inc. If this isn't clearly a mess to you on who owns what, ask your Puppet Master to explain to you why I say it is. Had Gateway released AOS/WB as open source under some appropriate Gateway license, we would not have this mess and a doomed OS.
Purely subjective statement, eh Dammy?
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@jedi
>Who says insults ? who spreads misinformation or >FUD ? who continues the war ? who is blind ?...
Your words.
>The great PowerPC Pegasos is ALREADY HERE,
Not with "Apirl" fix...
>The great PowerPC Pegasos is ALREADY HERE,
The application of "great" is pure subjective.
>I know that is easy to say what you want when >peoble are misinformed on forums like this (by >some famous specialists of misinformation), >especially when their passion forces them to >believe blindly only on the "official" way and the >simple "Amiga" name (aka the >Hyperion/Eyetech/Amiga Inc. group).
One can learn many things from non-official Windows 3.1 compatible (OS/2 Warp) VS official Windows 3.1 compatible (Windows 95) war. Brand names can’t be underestimated.
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They can't afford to protect Bernie so they can make money off of sales of his work.
Bernie is just a licensee, Ainc has no obligation to protect Bernie.
? DE was an interesting idea, but its Tao's IP, not theirs.
Not the value added items.
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Poster: MikeB Date: 2002/12/5 14:40:35
@ Dammy
Quote:
No kidding! Where the hell did I ever say AOS was open source to begin with? Hint, I never have.
What I said at the time was that, if you believe open source to be the only possible and interesting future, why are you an AmigaOS or Amithlon fan, as both have been closed source since day one. I was just suprized to see my own arguments as yours.
I realize it's difficult for you to think with being told what to think by your Puppet Master, but I'll give it a shot anyways. It's inmaterial if I like AOS (closed) or Amithlon (closed and open) if it's going to succeed. What I have said was, without AOS becoming OSS'd (with whatever license that still protects it from commercial explotation like H&P have apparently already done) it's never going to reach critical mass. Not only that, who wants to take another bath on developing for an OS that's owner is usually in deep financial troubles and is likely to go under, yet again. If it was open sourced, then developers could be assured AOS would still be around, and therefor users would continue to be around, regardless of the owner's financial condition.
Quote:
I still say AmigaOS is doomed as it is, exactly because it wasn't OSS'd
And I believe the OS would be commercially doomed if the OS would be open sourced (which may also be impossible to do, due to 3rd party licensed code).
Third party coder's portions could be deleted and allow other developers to write a open source license replacement. As a commercial OS, it's not only doomed already, it died awhile back. WB 3.9 sales shows us that.
So, we disagree. The fact of the matter is that we don't own AmigaOS, so we cannot give the OS away or decide to open the sources.
Give it time, $5 maybe the winning bid in a few months. ;-)
IMO it would be very stupid to do this at this point, as Amiga Inc first had to pay millions of dollars for their IP and afterwards rivals could easily abuse their IP.
That has to be one of the most funnest things you've said in a long time. Here is H&P, no license for WB 3.9 nor AmigaXL/Amithlon and Amiga Inc is just sitting there, stinking up the joint as it rots away. A probably near perfect example of what you said would be wrong, and here it is coming to pass with a closed sourced OS.
Anyway your insults will continue no matter what, so further discussion with you would be useless. And actually I was only curious to know why you are trying to paint yourself of as a moralizer (especially within recent threads), and it is now obvious that you are just faking.
I'm more then willing to STFU, if you an Luca do the same. I can accept the war is over and the mop up battles will wrap up in a month or two. I can freely agree that we need to come together at the end and be unified. Pity you, your Puppet Masters, and Luca can't let the go of your elite standing in Amiga Inc that is about to be defunct.
Check with your Puppet Masters and Luca, then get back with me.
Dammy
Boycott: VMC, Haage&Partner, and Amigan Software
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Where is this GREAT MorphOS????????
Some days ago, I read an article of somebody who tryed this system, sying that it's full of errors and not very stable.
You know what I think they want to join forces for? They want help from Eyetch and Hyperion to get OS 4 running on Pegasos, because their MorphOS won't run well in the near future and they need a "real" OS for their hardware.
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@siciliano:
Come back when you will know what you say.
Or come to Aachen to test & use yourself MorphOS in live on the Pegasos.
But sorry, in Aachen you won't test & use AmigaOS4 in live on AmigaOne since AmigaOS4 is not ready...
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"Some days ago, I read an article of somebody who tryed this system, sying that it's full of errors and not very stable."
When was published this article ?...
Are you sure its writer is impartial and objective ?...
Have you * recently tested yourself * MorphOS on Pegasos ?...
And do you think that AmigaOS4 * on AmigaOne * has today no errors and it's very stable ?...
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WBStartup
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