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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Oldsmobile_Mike on June 07, 2015, 02:16:12 AM
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I have a Version 2.0 VXL*30 that I've upgraded from the stock 25MHz 68EC030 to 40MHz 68030/'882. In order to run the board at this speed I've found I need the three PAL chips described here under "Fast PAL Upgrade":
http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/VXL30-Configuration.pdf
(it won't boot at 40MHz without these chips)
I realize it's a one-in-a-million shot, but does anybody have these chips available, or any other VXL*30 parts? I've read some interesting guides online about overclocking them and would like to try a few things out. ;)
Thanks! :)
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Good luck with that.
If you can find NOS PALs, a PAL programmer, and the code necessary to program them you might be able to make the needed components.
Sounds outlandish, but that is what a friend is doing for me in order to set up a PT68K5 motherboard for me right now.
These old obsolete parts can be a bitch to find though.
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What happens if you clock the faster processor at the stock speed? or 30Mhz? or 35Mhz?
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What happens if you clock the faster processor at the stock speed? or 30Mhz? or 35Mhz?
The faster processor works fine with the 25MHz oscillator in there. I'm going to try to bump it up a hair, 28MHz, 30, 33, 35, but I don't have the right oscillators right now. Gotta go shopping! ;)
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What happens if you clock the faster processor at the stock speed? or 30Mhz? or 35Mhz?
Just a quick update on this: I ordered a couple 30MHz oscillators, popped one in, and the system booted right up.
As a preventative measure I stuck some of those little RAM heatsinks on the PAL chips (already had them on the CPU & FPU, it's a habit of mine), and tapped a little fan into the +5V line going to the floppy drive, just to move a tiny amount of air around inside the case. Wohoo, a +5MHz overclock on the board, balanced out with a still -10MHz underclock on the CPU & FPU. Oh well, whatcha gonna do? SysSpeed says she's pushing around 9 MIP's, vroom-vroom! :lol:
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Just a quick update on this: I ordered a couple 30MHz oscillators, popped one in, and the system booted right up.
As a preventative measure I stuck some of those little RAM heatsinks on the PAL chips (already had them on the CPU & FPU, it's a habit of mine), and tapped a little fan into the +5V line going to the floppy drive, just to move a tiny amount of air around inside the case. Wohoo, a +5MHz overclock on the board, balanced out with a still -10MHz underclock on the CPU & FPU. Oh well, whatcha gonna do? SysSpeed says she's pushing around 9 MIP's, vroom-vroom! :lol:
nice...
Most PAL chips can be replaced with GAL's which run cooler and should suport the higher speed. Of course you need the code.Pal code can be translated to GAL code with pal2gal software. I wonder if the onboard pals can be read out or if the protection bits are set?
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nice...
Most PAL chips can be replaced with GAL's which run cooler and should suport the higher speed. Of course you need the code.Pal code can be translated to GAL code with pal2gal software. I wonder if the onboard pals can be read out or if the protection bits are set?
Hummm, good point! A bit out of my experience but I'm not above learning something new. :) A google search on Pal2Gal yielded some interesting links (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/-7FckbQ0xyU/deLQ6qjPEfYJ) that I'm going to bookmark for future reading...
Suspect I would need the code for the V3 chips to support the faster board speeds, however. I don't think it's just a matter of cooler running chips, it doesn't even try to run at 40MHz with the V2 chips (yellow screen at power on). Good luck finding that, I know! ;)
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Hummm, good point! A bit out of my experience but I'm not above learning something new. :) A google search on Pal2Gal yielded some interesting links (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/-7FckbQ0xyU/deLQ6qjPEfYJ) that I'm going to bookmark for future reading...
Suspect I would need the code for the V3 chips to support the faster board speeds, however. I don't think it's just a matter of cooler running chips, it doesn't even try to run at 40MHz with the V2 chips (yellow screen at power on). Good luck finding that, I know! ;)
Yes, i am sure you would still need the faster code,but i just thought i would alert you to the possible use of low power,cool running GAL chips.. they work great for replacing the 4 pals in the A3000's also.
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Yes, i am sure you would still need the faster code,but i just thought i would alert you to the possible use of low power,cool running GAL chips.. they work great for replacing the 4 pals in the A3000's also.
Go For It Mikey!!!
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I own a VXL*30, could never find the RAM board for it so it sits in it's original box on a shelf.
It's a New Zealand board so I would assume it's the PAL version, what do I need to check?
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I own a VXL*30, could never find the RAM board for it so it sits in it's original box on a shelf.
It's a New Zealand board so I would assume it's the PAL version, what do I need to check?
Sweet! I'd start with what revision is it (should be printed on the board or on a sticker), and what speed?
............................
Microbotics made three different versions of the board, but each of the old versions (V1 or V2) could be upgraded to V3 via different kits. Of course there was different ways of doing this, involving swapping different chips, or adding a wire, etc. Then to make things even more confusing, there was ways of upgrading an older board to support the RAM32 that didn't include the ability to run at 40MHz or 50MHz.
This guide has some info:
http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/VXL30-Configuration.pdf
http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/VXL30-Upgrade.pdf
To the best of my understanding "Upgrading a V2 to support RAM32 requires replacing chips 2, 7, 8, 10, and 12. Upgrading a V2 to support 40MHz/50MHz requires replacing chips 3, 9, and 11." I have the former, but not the latter, LOL. And of course the chips aren't even clearly marked whether they're Version 2 or Version 3. Maybe I should have picked an easier board to mess around with! :lol:
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I'm also desperately searching for those PAL chips, best I can get out of my VXL*30 is 28MHz.
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Sweet! I'd start with what revision is it (should be printed on the board or on a sticker), and what speed?
I shall go out to the dark dungeon known as the garage and look through my storage boxes :-)
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/550/18783831420_31de76b574_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uBS3Eq)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/308/18966142182_55a98b0452_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uTYriq)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/490/18783838380_40081fac64_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uBS5Jq)
Version 2.0 so might be out of luck :-/
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Version 2.0 so might be out of luck :-/
Yeah, 'fraid so, I suspect. Looks like yours is the same as mine was before I started tinkering with it, maybe even a little older. I.e., some of your chips that say "902" - some of mine say 904. Of course, lord only knows what those numbers actually mean, LOL. ;)
Shame that this board is pretty much useless without its ram. I only have 2MB, but I configure it to load as much of the OS & libraries into that memory as possible, and leave the 16-bit fast on my GVP sidecar for applications. She does allright, like that. :)
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Shame that this board is pretty much useless without its ram. I only have 2MB, but I configure it to load as much of the OS & libraries into that memory as possible, and leave the 16-bit fast on my GVP sidecar for applications. She does allright, like that. :)
It's basically a door stop with out the RAM card :-/ Sorry I couldn't help. I have another card here of different make/model which is also 030, needs a pin repair but before it broke I couldn't get the full amount of RAM to detect. But I think it's 2MB too, speeds the Amiga 500 up no end but it's nothing compared to the ACA cards. The ACA-1233 smokes it :-)
Some of these older cards are frustrating.
Going to have a huge clean up soon though and sell a lot of my Amiga gear and just keep the A1200T.
Although I will miss the ACA 500 + ACA-1233, but would like to focus on just the A1200T.
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Some of these older cards are frustrating.
Going to have a huge clean up soon though and sell a lot of my Amiga gear and just keep the A1200T.
Ah, I like the old stuff. Even when it is frustrating. I literally spent four hours last night and today pouring over the libraries in my A500 and A2000, making sure they all had the most updated versions as possible (wish Cosmos was still posting updates to his (http://leblogdecosmos.blogspot.com/p/coding.html), especially!). Anything to eek out every last bit of possible performance, I actually enjoy things like this. ;)
Keep me in mind when you have your sale, although the boxes of stuff labeled "Amiga" next to my desk is stacked almost to my shoulders. I could probably stand to get rid of a few things, too! ;)
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Yeah, 'fraid so, I suspect. Looks like yours is the same as mine was before I started tinkering with it, maybe even a little older. I.e., some of your chips that say "902" - some of mine say 904. Of course, lord only knows what those numbers actually mean, LOL. ;)
Shame that this board is pretty much useless without its ram. I only have 2MB, but I configure it to load as much of the OS & libraries into that memory as possible, and leave the 16-bit fast on my GVP sidecar for applications. She does allright, like that. :)
Any accelerator without ram onboard(except the 3640-motherboard ram counts as onboard) will be dog slow without the fast ram. it seems silly so many older accelerators had ram as a option instead of default.
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Mechy,
I seem to remember you had 1Mx4 DIP RAM chips on your old website. Do you still have any available? If you do, perhaps Oldsmobile_Mike would be interested in some. 8MB RAM on the VXL*30 does make a huge difference, especially as it allows DMA into it in 68000 mode.
You could also hack some old 4MB PC SIMMs and modify the SOJ chips like I did in this thread. http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64216 Back in the day when I did this mod, 1Mx4 DIPs were impossible to find.
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Ah, I like the old stuff. Even when it is frustrating. I literally spent four hours last night and today pouring over the libraries in my A500 and A2000, making sure they all had the most updated versions as possible (wish Cosmos was still posting updates to his (http://leblogdecosmos.blogspot.com/p/coding.html), especially!). Anything to eek out every last bit of possible performance, I actually enjoy things like this. ;)
Keep me in mind when you have your sale, although the boxes of stuff labeled "Amiga" next to my desk is stacked almost to my shoulders. I could probably stand to get rid of a few things, too! ;)
Bring back Cosmos, miss his updates. Especially enjoyed his mediator guide. Waiting on a few items so I can switch to SATA drives for the A1200 and will be using some of his libraries again for that.
It's getting out of hand in the garage so need to clean it up, can never find anything anyway in there ;-)
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For anyone looking to upgrade their RAM-32 to 8MB, I used these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/IC-TC514400AP-80-TC514400AP-80-10pcs/1943419154.html
They are 80ns though, I couldn't find any 60ns.
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Bring back Cosmos, miss his updates. Especially enjoyed his mediator guide
I stopped for the moment any releases because I'm 99.99% certain there are some big bugs in the Voodoo.card from Elbox : http://warpclassic68k.blogspot.fr/2013/07/fichy-eng.html
I tried by email to convince Elbox to look deeper into this driver, but my english is too low to explain well...
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I stopped for the moment any releases because I'm 99.99% certain there are some big bugs in the Voodoo.card from Elbox : http://warpclassic68k.blogspot.fr/2013/07/fichy-eng.html
I tried by email to convince Elbox to look deeper into this driver, but my english is too low to explain well...
A shame as you've made some great improvements that Elbox and other suppliers haven't. Would love an update to the Voodoo driver to enable the 2nd GPU on the Voodoo 5500 ;-)
I also wish someone would release a Warp3D update to support the Radeon cards on classic. That would be amazing :-)
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It's basically a door stop with out the RAM card :-/ Sorry I couldn't help. I have another card here of different make/model which is also 030, needs a pin repair but before it broke I couldn't get the full amount of RAM to detect. But I think it's 2MB too, speeds the Amiga 500 up no end but it's nothing compared to the ACA cards. The ACA-1233 smokes it :-)
Some of these older cards are frustrating.
Going to have a huge clean up soon though and sell a lot of my Amiga gear and just keep the A1200T.
Although I will miss the ACA 500 + ACA-1233, but would like to focus on just the A1200T.
I bet my csa derringer 030/50 with 128Mb smokes the aca :D I intentionally avoided the vxl because of the ram issue,without it it doesnt do much.
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Bring back Cosmos, miss his updates. Especially enjoyed his mediator guide. Waiting on a few items so I can switch to SATA drives for the A1200 and will be using some of his libraries again for that.
It's getting out of hand in the garage so need to clean it up, can never find anything anyway in there ;-)
I miss them too! oh and you should see my mess :) I can't seem to work on anything to completion lately without seeing a shiny zorro card and going off on a tangent!
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I miss Cosmos's library updates! I seriously have a text file saved on my desktop with all my library versions, and am constantly on the lookout for more updates. But I understand not wanting to release them publicly anymore if some jerk-holes were profiting by selling his work. :(
Thanks for the link for the RAM chips above! Sold by the bag? Haha, I'll have to pick up a couple "bags" and try them out! :D
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I miss Cosmos's library updates! I seriously have a text file saved on my desktop with all my library versions, and am constantly on the lookout for more updates. But I understand not wanting to release them publicly anymore if some jerk-holes were profiting by selling his work. :(
Thanks for the link for the RAM chips above! Sold by the bag? Haha, I'll have to pick up a couple "bags" and try them out! :D
The same thing goes on with the Gotek stuff, profiteers selling them for ridiculous prices.
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The same thing goes on with the Gotek stuff, profiteers selling them for ridiculous prices.
And for your card readers... sadly, the list goes on, my friend! :(
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For anyone looking to upgrade their RAM-32 to 8MB, I used these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/IC-TC514400AP-80-TC514400AP-80-10pcs/1943419154.html
They are 80ns though, I couldn't find any 60ns.
So I bought these chips like two months ago, and after having them sit on my desk for two more months, finally put them in tonight, and working great! Going from 2MB of 32-bit RAM to 8MB on the VXL*30 is like "night & day", since the 2MB was entirely consumed just by booting the thing, leaving me with just the 16-bit RAM in my sidecar. So yeah, big difference. :) If you're still around, thanks for the link, and btw - I'm running mine with the jumper at 60ns, no problems yet, but of course can always flip it back to 80ns if they start showing any stability issues.
Guess I should update my sig now? ;)
Oh, and here's a few pictures. My A500 doesn't get enough love. :)
(took the first pic after I'd already removed one of the old chips, I wasn't running without one, haha)
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Decided to play a few levels of one of my favorite games after the upgrade. :D
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I have a v3 board, if there is still interest, I can see if i can read the PALs.