Aos 3 -> aos 4

[drHirudo]

I forgot to say that I when I switched to AmigaOS 4 and even today I use Amiga as main machine i.e. it can be considered modern use of computer. Back in 2004 the use of Internet on Amiga 4000 with AGA was terrible. I was browsing without graphics, because the graphics were seen only dithered to 32 color. Switching to 64 colors Workbench rendered the machine useless and lowered the Internet bandwidth speed. I never listened to MP3s, because the decoding took too many resources.

The people who said they are okay with AmigaOS 3 and have no interest in AmigaOS 4 are using their machines for gaming and retro tinkering, not for modern tasks. AmigaOS 3 is just fine for their needs, since they have a laptop PC or Mac Desktop machine nearby to check their g-mail accounts, Facebook and YouTube.

But if use your Amiga for some professional task or want to use it for what is considered modern computing - e-mail, YouTube, Videos, MP3, emulation, c++ coding etc, AmigaOS 4 is a need, not luxury.

While I can not watch TV on my AmigaOne, I happily watch shows that I want to watch on my Amiga with Cyrillic subtitles. While I can not play with Sega D-Pad, I can play with USB joystick with 10 buttons and analog paddles on my AmigaOne. While I can not listen to native Paula sounds, I enjoy full quality Tunenet songs in wide variety of formats, that were very hard to replay on A4000. All this thanks to AmigaOS 4.

[djrikki]

Aos4 is not only numerically greater than Aos 3 ;-) But is the natural successor to Aos3 and comes bundled with the all features you probably will know about already.

Surfing the net is vital these days; nothing pre-Aos4 is suitable for internet browsing - sorry iBrowse advocates - but its no longer 1993.

And contrary to what HaywirePC posted above; Aos4 does in fact come ready bundled or as you put it pre-configured (probably wrong word you picked there) with all the apps and utilities that you would expect. Quick examples, DOpus, File, Simplemail/Yam, SGrab, AmiFTP, Pftp and many other popular apps you will find on OSDepot.  They where already installed on the hard drive when my SAM 460 arrived - they are also available on the included CD.

Personally I'd love talk about this again say end of July when perhaps someone can compare Timberwolf running on AmigaOS Classic vs AmigaOS 2011.  That would be quite something to see running on an ancient A4000!

Edit:  drHirudo - Yeah good points.  Aos3 isn't for modern computing.  Hence why its referred to as Classic, by just about everyone.

Edit 2: Gulliver - Of course I have no idea where you come from as your Avatar says nothing.  But I would imagine other countries (if they haven't already) will be joining the UK and ditching all TV analogue broadcasts.  "And they call it progress!"

[commodorejohn]

The people who said they are okay with AmigaOS 3 and have no interest in AmigaOS 4 are using their machines for gaming and retro tinkering, not for modern tasks. AmigaOS 3 is just fine for their needs, since they have a laptop PC or Mac Desktop machine nearby to check their g-mail accounts, Facebook and YouTube.

But if use your Amiga for some professional task or want to use it for what is considered modern computing - e-mail, YouTube, Videos, MP3, emulation, c++ coding etc, AmigaOS 4 is a need, not luxury.

Hardly. More powerful hardware might be considered a need (though really, you can do a lot more with classic hardware than next-gen evangelists seem to think,) but OS4 is just one possible approach to utilizing it. Even if you're not the type to work a WB3.1 install into something more capable, PPC hardware opens up a much broader range of software options than just OS4 - there's also MorphOS, AROS, and Linux to consider, the latter two of which have the advantage of being free.

Edit 2: Gulliver - Of course I have no idea where you come from as your Avatar says nothing. But I would imagine other countries (if they haven't already) will be joining the UK and ditching all TV analogue broadcasts. "And they call it progress!"

Unfortunately, the US already has :/ You can still get a converter box, though.

[drHirudo]

Hardly. More powerful hardware might be considered a need (though really, you can do a lot more with classic hardware than next-gen evangelists seem to think,)

I know what I can do with classic hardware. I used classic Amigas till 2004 and even at the beginning at 2005. I also know what you can not do (68060 board and melody sound card incompatible). I used my Amiga 4000 to code games for SuperNES, grab TV frames, sample sounds, burn CDs and many other tasks non occasional task. But if I want to use Amiga for better up to date tasks, the AmigaOS 4 offers me much more options than AmigaOS 3. And easier. That's it.

As I said if you want to play Lemmings, draw pixel pictures in Personal Paint (PPaint is much better for me on AmigaOS 4 btw), listen to .MODs and watch demos, check e-mails, IRC, classic Amigas are just fine and I would kept mine if I was interested in only this. But I want more from my Amiga.

[drHirudo]

Surfing the net is vital these days; nothing pre-Aos4 is suitable for internet browsing - sorry iBrowse advocates - but its no longer 1993.

Currently, the only way to legally acquire non time limited version of IBrowse is to buy AmigaOS 4. (works on AmigaOS 3). Oh, the irony.

[Franko]

Edit:  drHirudo - Yeah good points.  Aos3 isn't for modern computing.  Hence why its referred to as Classic, by just about everyone.

Until I went online last year I had only ever came across the term "Classic" being used to describe the Amiga once before and that was by Hyperion for their launch of OS4.0...

To me it's quite simple and no-one can say otherwise, an Amiga is quite simply the the original hardware built by CMB, Amiga Technologies & for a Short Time sold by Escom/ Gateway...

Everything else that people like to call an Amiga quite simply is not an Amiga and never will be...

So perhaps it time to drop the "classic" tag for the real and genuine Amiga hardware and instead when talking about these other things (SAM etc..) put a tag on them like "Wannabes" or "Imitation Products" when talking about them instead...

PS:I you think the Amiga isn't for "modern computing" then your delusional...

[commodorejohn]

But if I want to use Amiga for better up to date tasks, the AmigaOS 4 offers me much more options than AmigaOS 3. And easier. That's it.

Eh, I still maintain that classic hardware is undervalued, but even so, OS4 is hardly the only option for more powerful hardware.

[HammerD]

And Deneb won't do DMA on OS4 due to OS4 incompatibility/limitations dealing with perfectly fine DMA OS3 drivers.  BlizzardPPC/A4000T scsi situation is worse because it won't work at all.

It's not about any OS4 "limitations", but rather a different way the OS4.x memory system handles DMA.  A scatter/gather method of DMA would have to be implemented as that is how it is done under OS 4.x (to my knowledge).

It could be done with a firmware/driver update on the Deneb.

Same for blizzard or A4000T scsi - we just need a driver written natively for OS4.1.

[matt3k]

Years ago I went with (7 or so) a Peg2 and MOS.  I never used AOS4, so I can't say anything about it.  

The Peg 2 back in the day was a decent box for games and productivity, and BBRV were very responsive to make my experience pleasant.  Today, the OS has been greatly enhanced and is pretty slick and surfing is almost decent.  Not bad for such an old box.

I still enjoy tinkering with the classic hardware and have fun with older games.

The issue for people my age is that I don't have time anymore for hobby/fun computer use.  I bought my first Amiga when I was in my teens now and in my forty's.  Priorities have changed for me and I bet many original classic users.  I used the classic systems for fun and enjoyed user groups and learning.  Now I use MOS as a productivity tool to get the job done and that is it.  Different really.

[HotRod]

I will likely never purchase aos4 or an aos4 machine.

The cost is ridiculous for 10+ year old hardware specs.

AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...

Steven
The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.
 
I don't think so. I've tried out a friends os4 system and ware really dissapointed. I expected it to be more feature rich than AROS but the truth is, it really isn't.
 
I expected it might be faster, but the truth is, AOS4 on a 1ghz system is certainly less snappy than Aros on a 2ghz pc. Aros on a 3ghz system smokes it. No comparison at all.
 
Icaros also comes preconfigured with tons of utilities, games, apps and so on. AOS4 comes with nothing, and your likely to spend a few weeks getting it up to the functionality of a freshly installed icaros system.
 
To each his own. I choose AROS.
 
:laughing:

The fun is to install software yourself, software and games that you as a user enjoy but that might not be fore everyone which is the case with AROS. I didn't find much software for AROS that required a modern PC to begin with. MPlayer is probably faster but hey, DOpus or the calculator? Also it is really ugly to me in every way.

Funny thing about "have to use UAE" which is only the case with AROS, you don't have to in AOS 4 or MOS except for old games/demos and offcourse a few old apps.

I don't have to spend a few weeks to get AOS 4 usable, with AOS 3.x you have to and most likely with AROS. When did you run AOS 4? It comes with much needed software like webbrowsers, a burning app and other little things that you need and then you download whatever you want. It's like with some Linux distros, you get a bunch of games that are no fun throwed in your face, what's the point? Is that what makes you choose an OS, what software they put on the CD? Ehh... ok then...

FYI DOpus 4 isn't even for everyone like you might have noticed just to take one example so why force it on you?

Oh I got a 3.4GHz PC and an 800MHz amigaone and I don't know what issues your friend had or what version of AOS 4 he ran but I would go as far as calling you a liar. Offcourse apps like OWB and MPlayer are faster, they demand more CPU power, as simple as that but the fastest computer in the world doesn't mean that I will be the happiest user in the world if the OS isn't any good, as simple as that.

[HotRod]

Basically this: if I want something that will run on my A3000/040, OS4 isn't it. If I want an Amiga-like operating system that will run on PPC hardware that can be had cheaper than an Amiga PPC accelerator, OS4 isn't that, either. To run it, I'd need either a PPC accelerator (one of the most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga,) or an OS4-supported custom PPC board (one of the other most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga.)

And even if I already had those, there are a nice variety of OS options that don't involve shelling out a couple hundred bucks to one of the assorted shysters currently exploiting the Amiga name.

One thing that I really wonder about when I read that PPC hardware are so expensive is, what did your Amiga cost when you bought it? Did you get it for free from mom or dad? My a4k wasn't cheap when I bought it, damn expensive actually but it was SO worth it. Then you can imagaging what it has cost to change CPU cards up to the CSPPC which is probably the most expensive hardware that I've ever bought for it. Elbox tower with PCI-slots (the second tower that I bought), FastATA-III, GoldenGate, Voodoo 3, Voodoo 4, SB 128, CD-burner, RAM and so on. Let me tell you that my amigaone are A LOT cheaper compared to that and it runs much better too.

What I don't buy regarding the "it is two expensive" is when the same people upgrades their PC every 6 month, buy an iPhone, flatscreen TV etc etc etc.

If you are a die hard amiga fan but want... I don't know what... too expensive, I don't believe in that as a reason. I can do anything in AOS 4 that I could do in AOS 3, only better so why not? And regarding speed it's faster than any classic machine too anyway.

[rvo_nl]

well, I run both OS3.9 and OS4 but I have to admit I dont like 4.0 much.. I intend to buy 4.1 some day to give it another try. OS3.9 is just so much more fun to tweak and play around with. Its much more responsive and compatible with legacy software. Also, I love my hardware setup, quite hard to setup initially but once you get it going its a great machine that really is the most Amiga-like, Amiga-compatible machine you can get. I can even turn off the blizzppc by holding down '2' and I will have a standard a1200 again, able to run even more old software. But in the end I guess we all have our own reason to like or dislike OS3.9 / OS4.x.

[spihunter]

One thing that I really wonder about when I read that PPC hardware are so expensive is, what did your Amiga cost when you bought it? Did you get it for free from mom or dad? My a4k wasn't cheap when I bought it, damn expensive actually but it was SO worth it. Then you can imagaging what it has cost to change CPU cards up to the CSPPC which is probably the most expensive hardware that I've ever bought for it. Elbox tower with PCI-slots (the second tower that I bought), FastATA-III, GoldenGate, Voodoo 3, Voodoo 4, SB 128, CD-burner, RAM and so on. Let me tell you that my amigaone are A LOT cheaper compared to that and it runs much better too.

What I don't buy regarding the "it is two expensive" is when the same people upgrades their PC every 6 month, buy an iPhone, flatscreen TV etc etc etc.

If you are a die hard amiga fan but want... I don't know what... too expensive, I don't believe in that as a reason. I can do anything in AOS 4 that I could do in AOS 3, only better so why not? And regarding speed it's faster than any classic machine too anyway.

That arguement doesn't really work because the Amiga was up to date back then. It was in par with or superior back then. People are saying it's expensive now because we don't want to spend $800-$1000 for a motherboard that is 10 years out of date technology wise.
People spend a lot on classic stuff because of the nostalgia of it.

[Franko]

The issue for people my age is that I don't have time anymore for hobby/fun computer use.  I bought my first Amiga when I was in my teens now and in my forty's.  Priorities have changed for me and I bet many original classic users.

I too am in my forties (46 and half to be exact) but I can't quite fathom where your priority's have changed for the worse just because you're forty something... :confused:

Guess you haven't got the hang of the "age" thing yet...

By the time you hit your 40's you should have learned enough about life by now to realise that you've got more time than you ever had before for doing the things you enjoy and not the other way round as you seem to be saying...

You must be doing it wrong (living I mean), by now you should be at the stage where you can sit around in your Y-fronts and the jumper or T-Shirt full of holes (cos it's the comfiest) and not giving a crap about what anyone says or thinks...

Gawd sake man... the old wooden overcoat ain't that far off for the likes of you and me, so make the time, enjoy yourself, enjoy life before it's game over and leave all the worrying behind and priorities behind you...

At the end of the day when your six foot under you won't be worrying about bill's, mortgage repayments or prioritising things etc... leave that to kids to sort out when they fight over their inheritance... (or better still blow it all on simply enjoying yourself and let the brats earn their own money and learn about life the hard way, like I and most likely yourself had to do)...

Honestly, try it, for me life's never been so much fun....

[commodorejohn]

One thing that I really wonder about when I read that PPC hardware are so expensive is, what did your Amiga cost when you bought it?

Basically spihunter got it right: that's pretty much irrelevant, as you're comparing the cost of prime computer hardware from the '80s-early '90s to middling computer hardware today. The relevant comparison for an attempt at a semi-modern system is other semi-modern systems, where custom "Amiga" PPC boards clearly don't compare, price-for-performance.

(That said, if you still want to draw that comparison: my A3000 cost me a couple hundred bucks with an 040 accelerator and NIC, plus another hundred for the RTG card. If I wanted to upgrade to a PPC-accelerated system, I'd have to shell out likely twice the total cost of the system for a Cyberstorm - or I could pay even more for a SAM board. Yes, my A3000 is far less powerful - but it's also far cheaper.)

That said, while I myself am not interested in OS4/MorphOS, I'm not in the "PPC is a dead platform and impossibly expensive" camp - there's perfectly workable PPC hardware that can be had affordably, it's just that it's PPC Macs, not Amiga accelerators or any of the existing custom boards. You can pay $100-200 and get a Power Mac G5 setup or a Mac Mini that will fly with Amiga PPC software, and will be significantly more cheap to expand if you want more capability. Problem for OS4 users is, OS4 doesn't run on Macs.

What I don't buy regarding the "it is two expensive" is when the same people upgrades their PC every 6 month, buy an iPhone, flatscreen TV etc etc etc.

I don't. I've been using my current laptop since early 2009 and will probably continue to use it for another year or so. My desktop is a Pentium 4 system I rescued from the recycle center. And I don't shell out for expensive TVs or smartphones. And I still say $1,000 for a 1GHz SAM with one freaking PCI slot is ridiculous.

[SamuraiCrow]

If you are a die hard amiga fan but want... I don't know what... too expensive, I don't believe in that as a reason. I can do anything in AOS 4 that I could do in AOS 3, only better so why not? And regarding speed it's faster than any classic machine too anyway.

Let's see you try to bang the hardware and expect it to work.  What?  There is no custom hardware there to bang?  Too bad.  You can't do that on OS 4.  Maybe the Gallium drivers will allow that but AROS already lets you do that for free on nVidia GeForce graphics cards.