PCMCIA CARD AND BOOT DISK PROBLEMS- WORKBENCH 3.0

[Pat the Cat]

<shrug> If a filesystem handler's author says it won't work with big partitions, I'm inclined to believe them.

Yes, it certainly is trying to DIR CF0: from the shell. If it won't work there it won't work anywhere else.

HDToolbox, maybe. Cardinfo... I never got much sensible out of the Commodore one. The Aminet one, yes.

[Thomas]

That's the best example. You quote sentences of the readmes and then immediately prove that you didn't even read or understand them.

You don't investigate properly. You don't even try to understand what the technical cause for certain limits is. And you ignore the fact that there are ways to bypass these limits.

And you generalise too much. If you cannot do it, nobody can do it.

It's written in your own quotes:

should read disks up to 4G

It says disks, not partitions.

(more with direct SCSI option)

You just ignored that.

up to 4 GBytes of partition size for FAT16

You ignored FAT16. This limit is a limit of FAT, not of AmigaOS. As the CF card is larger than 4GB it cannot be formatted with FAT16. So this limit does not apply.

large harddisk support

You ignored that.

via TD64 or direct SCSI

You obviously don't know what that is, otherwise you wouldn't ignore the previous part.

[Pat the Cat]

Thomas, you really are being a an adhominen abusive pompous yob.

Grow up. When was the last time you took an 1992 A1200 and tried to get files into it? Nothing but a WB 3 disk?

I don't use FAT95 because I don't have to. I don't use Windows. Nobody has to.

I'm trying to help somebody here, you're just blowing steam for effect.

The way I do it, using Linux, I can put downloads straight onto a card, then plug it directly into the Amiga. Boot from that with Amiga FFs, no more copying required.

It would take quite a while for an A1200 to copy 16gb from one compact flash card to another even if it did work.

Anyway Wraith, Thomas is quite right to suggest trying the compact flash on your laptop at least.

One other point is that CF is hot swappable, so unplugging and plugging in the card is OK. If not your Gayle definitely could do with a fixer plugged into it. Causes a lot of aggravation with A1200 PCMCIA. There are software workaround too they might well be included in that hard drive with IDE adapter if you want to persist with the whole idea.

[wrath of khan]

I  will try again tomorrow-with the pcmcia card. My harddrive should be here tomorrow too i hope.

[Pat the Cat]

It boils down to whether compactflash.device is using it's own TD64 friendly IDE access to the compact flash card over PCMCIA, or whether it's just rerouting the inbuilt versions. Which aren't TD64 on a Kickstart 3.0 machine.

[Pat the Cat]

Well Wrath, if you can't get any joy out of that PCMCIA with 16GB - I'll buy it off you for what you paid for it.

PM me if you don't get any joy out of it.

I can try it in my A1200, could be your A1200s PCMCIA has been damaged (somebody tried to fit wrong card type).

Here's the thing - according to "what has been written", people have got 2GB cards working that way. Bigger cards with Os later than 3.0. But people also reporting no luck with 3.0, Maybe compactflash.device just doesn't work that way.

I'd like to find out.

[wrath of khan]

I will let you know- I made a 2 gig partition. Will check it in my amiga later today. Hard drive will arrive on monday at this rate.

[Pat the Cat]

Put a couple files on it. Makes it more like what you'll be using it for.

I realize that you can't copy them anywhere, but blank space on a card is set to FFFF... which the Amiga can mistake for "media removed".

The screen shot from ebay showed a drawer, "system volume information" or such. I presume that's windows record keeping, so leave it alone.

[wrath of khan]

Ah well, no luck. The pcmcia card is not recognized it seems. No idea if my pcmcia port is good or not- This a1200 was likely in an attic or such for a long time. It was damn dirty inside. Man using multiple windows is a nice feature- pre windows too.

I mostly used my 500 for games back in the day.

For whatever its worth here is a single sample sprite of the art I did.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl3uajfli2k1skr/YO%20YO%20TOY%20FINISHED.bmp?dl=0

[scuzzb494]

Hi

I am going to assume you are not David Pleasance... If you are then I am not worthy.

The floppy disk you have is a data disk and it asks that you copy the files to your hard drive. It assumes you have a hard disk:

Workbench on a hard drive will be bigger than on a single floppy disk as the whole installation comes on five disks.

To see the full contents of a Workbench disk you need to show all files from the drop down menu.

On the Workbench is a drawer called devs and this is where various drivers are stored and the CompactFlash.device is just that. And so the first line is asking to copy the device to the devs drawer. This device most likely has some further data written to the 'tool type' icon that mounts the device on boot. Dunno haven't seen it.

Sys is the way the Amiga identifies the boot or workbench and so when you see SYS: it basically means the Workbench disk or the Workbench volume or partition of the computer. The route to devs is SYS:devs/ then the device. You could also type Workbench:devs/device and or DF0:devs/device or HD0: or DH0:. You are in the realms of basic AmigaDOS and how the computer sees the location of the Workbench:devs drawer.

The drawer that is named l or L that is the letter L and not i is where you will find file systems to run your computer like FastFileSystem and CrossDOS etc and to understand the long file names on a Windoes based disk you need the FAT95 system otherwise files will read as XXXXXXX.XXX all the time.. so say you have a file that is myteaisready.info it will be read as MYTEAIS~.INF and it also configures the drive. USB drives tend to be FAT even on NTSC machines. So you need FAT95 in L as the file system and the MOUNT file will have a mount statement calling up the FAT95 from L and will be looking for that on BOOT or when you mount the card.

CF0 is the mount file and auto mount this you would place this in a drawer in devs called DosDrivers. In the DosDriver drawer we can place mount drivers that will auto mount on boot. The tool will have two parts. The icon and the actual tool. To see the split elements of a tool it is best to use a file manager like SID, DOpus, Dir Works etc. That way you can interogate the mount file and the icon. They are in two parts if it has an 'INFO'. You can also check from the Workbench drop down menus for the details of the INFO or information. Mount files can be edited using 'ED' from the shell or a text editor like CED. Learn to use the shell/CLI and start to look at tools/icons.

CF0 is a mount file if you click it, it mounts what ever the mountfile says and that is basically the structure of the device/card plus links to supported filesystems such as FAT95. So to work it really needs to know where FAT95 is and that means you must have booted the Workbench disk with that file in the L drawer.

The PCMCIA is DRAM and can be set up from a PrepCard facility you have on the EXTRAS disk of the Workbench set. I wouldn't suggest doing that cus it will muck up the card.

For me I never use anything over 4GB in size on an Amiga running 3.0. I do use bigger hard drives than 4GB but it means I do a bit of fiddling with the setting up and basically only use 4GB and leave the rest empty. Compact Flash media is not something I use. I only use PCMCIA for the Squirrel, Ethernet and RAM plus an Arcos and QuickDrive I have. I was always tempted to get a CF card but don't like them.

OK the workbench disk not working properly. You need to sort that out. Instead of copying the whole disk copy file by file by showing all files and see if one of the files or drawers is having a problem. It may be someithing incidental. But if the disk has a problem it will simply copy an empty or reduced size file to a new disk and contain the same problem. It would be sensible making sure that all your Workbench disks work before setting up a hard drive.

Chicken and egg. The CF0 needs to be in the devs:dosdrivers drawer to automount the CF card. It would be interesting to see what the Amiga shows from holding two mouse buttons down from the boot and see if the CF0 is there as a boot option. I doubt it. I would think that the card is only really useful as a data store and gets called up by manually mounting by clicking CF0 or like I say sticking it in the devs:dosdrivers drawer on the Workbench.

Next: That disk. Make sure you have enough space on the Workench disk for the device and the FAT95. There may not be space for them.

If you want to see a JPG or a GIF then use something like PPaint. DPaint only supports the IFF/ILBM. Fortunately PPaint saves in ILBM.

What are you trying to do....? The stock Amiga 1200 has but 2MB of CHIP RAM and no extra memory unless you add this via the trap door. Once you load your Workbench and fire up any software you will not have any space for an animation. You will likely get three frames tops of a colour Dpaint HighRes and or 10 frames of black and white. To do any work on an Amiga 1200 you need 4 to 8MB of RAM for starters. Better would be RAM plus an accelerator. Without them life is going to be a struggle. But first you have to put these floppies away and get a hard drive. Plus a good monitor and then you can think about the CF PCMCIA. You came at this the wrong way round. Hard drive to RAM to Accelerator to PCMCIA. I had the same problem in 1993 and I just couldn't do anything till I had the hard drive, RAM and then acceleration. The extra data storage then became a real issue. But thats another story.

As for file transfers between PC and Amiga you will also need to mount a device that can read PC disks. I have no idea how the compact flash drive handles that but I assume it is set up to interpret. Otherwise you may need to set up another config with crossDOS. I assume it works like a CD0 for reading CDs and the FAT95 does all that for you.

I didn't read all the thread but I think your life gets easier with a hard drive. WB 3.0 is fine and shouldn't be a problem. From my understanding the CF hard drives are set up a little different to see bigger drive capacities. Personally I only use 2.5" internal drives and you can still buy them new. Just need to do the trick with the formatting, but they are fine.

Hope that helps.

[Pat the Cat]

Yeah, extra RAM and hard drive on an A1200 make a big difference. Everything gets snappier and more responsive.

The CPU doesn't have any controllers to help do the heavy lifting with hard drive and PCMCIA access. Even when it does work it on a vanilla A1200 using just chip RAM.

Using a hard drive setup for 3.1 or later with 3.0 can be problematic. Bit of a glut with 3.1 chips for A1200 because of the recent release of 3,1,4.

3.0 starts up the quickest though.

Like I said Wrath, PM me and I can send you cash to cover your costs over Paypal. Plus a bit extra to cover postage to UK.

[wrath of khan]

So, i copied the files to the right places but im not sure about cf0:

Still getting a mount failure dialogue box- it says: Device 'CF0:' is already mounted...

I do have a hardrive installed now with wb 3.1. It works fine

[Pat the Cat]

well, at least you don't have to boot from floppy anymore.

How abou a dir DF0:?

How starting up the machine, then plugging in the PCMCIA card?

If the original driver disk was named "CF0" that would also cause a problem. Once the drivers are in the right places on the hard drive, you shouldn't need it inserted in a drive anyway.

You DO have to reboot the system between copying the drivers and using the PCMCIA card though.

(Very likely, they're already on the hard disk).

[wrath of khan]

If i had my harddrive/cf card accessible via the rear trapdoor that might work. Then if i put the wb 3.1 cf card in my pc would i be able to transfer files to it and then insert it back in the slot? Would the pc read the wb 3.1 card and allow files to be placed on it?

https://sordan.ie/product/737/amiga-1200-8mb-fast-ram-memory-trapdoor-expansion/

I am thinking of getting one of these... Basically if i can run d-paint or such and transfer 32 colour sprites/frames to the 1200 and make any needed adjustments there i should be good for now. Though an accelerator can be had for 150 euros online. Though i possibly need a specific monitor or old crt? I use a flatscreen at the moment.

Hah, and no i am not the mighty David Pleasance... I took the photo as an avatar years ago- always remembered David's name from back in the day. Believe it or not i got a private message from Petro Tyschtschenko a few years back... he evidently thought I was actually David as the message he sent confirmed it. lol.

[Pat the Cat]

If i had my harddrive/cf card accessible via the rear trapdoor that might work. Then if i put the wb 3.1 cf card in my pc would i be able to transfer files to it and then insert it back in the slot? Would the pc read the wb 3.1 card and allow files to be placed on it?

Yes, that's an ideal way from a hardware perspective. But...

Not with Windows alone, no. You can do it with using WinUAE, to read an Amiga formatted disk (fastfilesytem V40 I think). Or you could just boot Linux on a Usb stick and use that (the Linux will see the Windows partitions and files, and like I've already said, a line of code in a terminal will mount an Amiga FFs disk for use with a file manager to copy files around). 98% using a mouse and graphic interface. And yes, it will see the Windows hard disk as well.

This has always been a Microsoft policy, to exclude "foreign" types of disks from competing operating systems.

EDIT: GParted on Linux does not have to be used to format or partition the Amiga drive, but it comes in very handy for working out which device location to use (for instance sdb1, sca2, whatever) when mounting the drive in Linux.

https://sordan.ie/product/737/amiga-1200-8mb-fast-ram-memory-trapdoor-expansion/

I am thinking of getting one of these... Basically if i can run d-paint or such and transfer 32 colour sprites/frames to the 1200 and make any needed adjustments there i should be good for now. Though an accelerator can be had for 150 euros online.

It can do that without a memory expansion, but the RAM helps make it a less clumsy experience. Do shop around, buy local. Accelerator would be a bit overkill for Dpaint. Would help converting the graphics but a 14MHz 68020 with it's own RAM area is not too shabby.

Though i possibly need a specific monitor or old crt? I use a flatscreen at the moment.

Old television with a scart socket should do just fine, with a decent scart cable. To check your graphics on a CRT. The differences in effect are subtle.

http://ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_SCART/amiga_scart.html

[scuzzb494]

The Amiga has a problem with some cards of 8MB interfering with the PCMCIA slot. So that card you showed is saying that you need to switch to just 4MB so that the PCMCIA works.

Worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1dgVTdMUXM&t=282s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEPkGr3TvCg

PS Just cus you can't see an icon for the drive it doesn't mean its not mounted.  Maybe its not got an icon. Dunno. Using a file manager will show all mounted drives or SysInfo. Not sure about SysInfo and CF cards.