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Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: Colin_Camper on November 14, 2006, 09:32:26 PM

Title: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Colin_Camper on November 14, 2006, 09:32:26 PM
Check out the port AROS to EFIKA Bounty on Team AROS - It's now the biggest ever!  (http://www.thenostromo.com/teamaros2/)  :cheers:

Surely with this bounty also coming with a free EFIKA board it's not going to get too dusty?  :-o
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: weirdami on November 14, 2006, 09:55:28 PM
what is efika?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Crumb on November 14, 2006, 09:59:03 PM
I hope that bounty attracts someone to implement MOS compatibility...
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: _yak_ on November 14, 2006, 10:32:59 PM
@weirdami

http://www.pegasosppc.com/efika.php
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: ChaosLord on November 14, 2006, 10:43:32 PM
Why didn't they pay MorphOS $1000.00 to port it to Efika?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: weirdami on November 14, 2006, 10:47:46 PM
Who wants to bet that the "generous soul" is BBRV?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on November 15, 2006, 11:17:30 AM
Actually, there are several donors to this bounty already which includes two corporations (Nusim and Genesi).   Hopefully before XMas, Olivier will have enough time to add the individual bounty donor's pages to the site.

Of course, those who wanted to see AROS ported to PPC, now is your time to give your support by donating.

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: AmigaHeretic on November 15, 2006, 04:17:45 PM
Can you even by the EFIKA yet?  I went to the website and it says they ship in 2 to 3 weeks, but is that in Amiga time?

Sometimes I think the world has gone crazy.  The biggest AROS bounty ever is to port it to some board that is outdated and almost no one will buy.  AROS already runs on hardware that is easily 10x more powerful for a fraction of the cost.

 :-?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Tomas on November 15, 2006, 04:48:00 PM
Who donated? Genesi?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: redrumloa on November 15, 2006, 05:07:45 PM
Quote

AmigaHeretic wrote:
Can you even by the EFIKA yet?  I went to the website and it says they ship in 2 to 3 weeks, but is that in Amiga time?

Sometimes I think the world has gone crazy.  The biggest AROS bounty ever is to port it to some board that is outdated and almost no one will buy.  AROS already runs on hardware that is easily 10x more powerful for a fraction of the cost.


You are missing footprint, price and potential. This is a uATX board, so you could build a tiny MacMini size system. It's relatively cheap for it's size and being PPC based. Potential? Think MorphOS and OS4 compatability.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: humppa on November 15, 2006, 05:34:12 PM
Quote
Potential? Think MorphOS and OS4 compatability.


Both of which are looking rather dim at the moment, especially the latter.  :roll:
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: redrumloa on November 15, 2006, 06:45:00 PM
Quote

humppa wrote:
Quote
Potential? Think MorphOS and OS4 compatability.


Both of which are looking rather dim at the moment, especially the latter.  :roll:



You are correct  :-(
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on November 15, 2006, 11:51:54 PM
Quote
Who donated? Genesi?


Genesi and Nusim where both major donors which came after a small number of us (yes, that includes me) individuals donated prior to the corp donations.

Dammy
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2006, 01:45:29 AM
Genesi/RVBB have donated again to the EFIKA bounty (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=46).  Total is now $1204 USD.

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: spihunter on December 07, 2006, 02:11:55 AM
Things are looking really cool for this little board! Cant wait to get one.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: McVenco on December 07, 2006, 08:06:32 AM
I will probably buy one as well, but only when MorphOS and/or AROS will be available for it. Linux is nice, but I can run that on my (soon to be obsolete) AMD machine as well, I don't want to buy an Efika when only Linux is available.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: coldfish on December 07, 2006, 09:34:17 AM
Where was this board when the A1 was in the works, a $199.00 PPC board is a lot more reasonable compared to the pricing debacle that was the A1.

At that price I'd almost buy one.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: spihunter on December 07, 2006, 11:22:56 AM
@McVenco,
Quote
I don't want to buy an Efika when only Linux is available.



Yep, I should have said I can hardly wait. I wont be buying either until MOS comes out for it. :-D
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bhoggett on December 07, 2006, 11:54:10 AM
This is where I think AROS has it wrong. It should concentrate on goals to make it usable rather than have everything dictated by bounties - some of which do nothing to move it forward. In this case by the time AROS is ported to Efika, MorphOS will probably be available for it as well - and since AROS isn't anywhere near as useful as MorphOS it will probably have more developers working on the port than it will gain users when the port is done.

I know that programmers need to be paid if they are to spend serious development time on a project, but at the same time it is possible to invest lots of money and time into something that essentially has little to no value when it's done.

There are too many projects concentrating on porting AROS and not enough getting practical applications ported to it.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2006, 12:18:56 PM
Quote
There are too many projects concentrating on porting AROS and not enough getting practical applications ported to it.


I'm seeing an increase in user apps being coded/ported, although they may or may not be reported on AO.  Lunapaint and AmigGG are good examples of code in 06.  I can count about four critical projects (atleast IMO, YMMV) that are being pushed ahead of user apps.  Currently most of those are either in developement or awaiting developer to open a block of free time for the project.  After they are completed, your going to be seeing a strong push on making things nicer for the users.  

Of course, the more developers that come aboard, the faster things can improve for AROS.  Being a community based OS, it's a two way street between devs and end users.  There is no pretty package you can go down to the corner store to buy. You want AROS, either roll up your sleeve or open that wallet like so many of us have over the years.

Dammy
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: ChaosLord on December 07, 2006, 12:32:04 PM
Why isn't there a "Port AROS to PS3" bounty?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bhoggett on December 07, 2006, 12:42:08 PM
Quote
I'm seeing an increase in user apps being coded/ported, although they may or may not be reported on AO. Lunapaint and AmigGG are good examples of code in 06. I can count about four critical projects (atleast IMO, YMMV) that are being pushed ahead of user apps. Currently most of those are either in developement or awaiting developer to open a block of free time for the project. After they are completed, your going to be seeing a strong push on making things nicer for the users.

Let's say I'll believe it when I see it. Lunapaint and AmiGG are all very nice, but hardly enough to motivate anyone in booting up AROS when you need to get things done.

Quote
Of course, the more developers that come aboard, the faster things can improve for AROS. Being a community based OS, it's a two way street between devs and end users. There is no pretty package you can go down to the corner store to buy. You want AROS, either roll up your sleeve or open that wallet like so many of us have over the years.

Well, from a personal PoV you are still to persuade me that AROS has a future and is therefore worth me investing either time or money in. I have no confidence in the way it has been progressing thus far.

However, if for example BBRV really wanted to help he could buy out the MorphOS source and donate it to AROS under the AROS licence or whatever. Now that would be something really worthwhile. Instead, someone who might have been working on applications may now well switch to porting AROS to Efika because it pays better, the overall result being that in effect AROS stagnates.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: c64_d0c on December 07, 2006, 02:20:40 PM
it allready runs on an x86 32bit pc that 99% of people are owning.... porting it to EFIKA is just futile of effort and time. there is two things aros need and that is firefox web browser and an emulator for old amiga software that is integrated into the os, it should run in the background so you dont think your emulating anything but thinks its native...

aros is out of focus, to much unnecessary and not important porting is going on...

i 100% agree with you bhoggett the morphos code should be buyed up and used for aros... there you have something really usefull for aros...


________
Stranger Originated Life Insurance Advice (http://www.insurance-forums.org/stranger-originated-life-insurance/)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Piru on December 07, 2006, 02:42:46 PM
@bhoggett
Quote
he could buy out the MorphOS source

Only if it was for sale, and it isn't.

@c64_d0c
Quote
there is two things aros need and that is firefox web browser ...

Don't hold your breath for firefox. It's as unlikely as AOS version, that is: It will never happen.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: falemagn on December 07, 2006, 05:14:42 PM
@bhogget

Quote

This is where I think AROS has it wrong. It should concentrate on goals to make it usable rather than have everything dictated by bounties - some of which do nothing to move it forward.


I actually agree with the crux of your message, but you got one main point wrong, which is that "AROS has it wrong": AROS, even if by "AROS" you refer to the group of people that code it, doesn't decide which bounties are to be opened, it's non developers that do that, because they want to incentive the developers to do something that they want to be done. But, in the end, it's still the developer who decides whether or not to take up on a given bounty.

Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: falemagn on December 07, 2006, 05:17:52 PM
Quote

Well, from a personal PoV you are still to persuade me that AROS has a future


Let's just say that it has about as much future as MOS and AmigaOS4 in their current forms.

I'll let you guess what's my opinion about those other OS's future.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: AmigaHeretic on December 07, 2006, 06:03:47 PM
Quote
it allready runs on an x86 32bit pc that 99% of people are owning.... porting it to EFIKA is just futile of effort and time.


Yeah, I hope this doesn't lead to a split in AROS.  Just what we need a Red AROS and Blue AROS war.   :roll:

Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Fransexy_ on December 07, 2006, 06:36:14 PM
Quote
Don't hold your breath for firefox. It's as unlikely as AOS version, that is: It will never happen.


The same was said about doom, quake, PCI on Amigas, coldfire accelerators........and see now  :roll:

Tip: never say never
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Tomas on December 07, 2006, 06:40:56 PM
I would rather see some new features like emulation layer, so that you can actually use it for running software. As it is now, it is just of no usage for the non developer. I think all effort should be on drivers for current platforms, more software and emulation that enables you to run 68k apps and games without having to fire up uae.

I dont see how aros can compete with MOS as it is now..
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: CannonFodder on December 07, 2006, 06:43:03 PM
Quote

Tomas wrote:
I would rather see some new features like emulation layer, so that you can actually use it for running software. As it is now, it is just of no usage for the non developer. I think all effort should be on drivers for current platforms, more software and emulation that enables you to run 68k apps and games without having to fire up uae.

I dont see how aros can compete with MOS as it is now..


IIRC seemless 68k emulation integration is awaiting the fruits of M.Schulz labour on the modular AMD64 kernel.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: CannonFodder on December 07, 2006, 06:44:34 PM
Quote

dammy wrote:

You want AROS, either roll up your sleeve or open that wallet like so many of us have over the years.


What if I wanted to donate to a bounty, but I do not trust the person responsible for keeping my money in escrow?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: CannonFodder on December 07, 2006, 06:54:10 PM
Has the Sputnik browser been ported to AROS yet?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: pixie on December 07, 2006, 09:45:23 PM
Quote
Has the Sputnik browser been ported to AROS yet?

Although AROS seems to be the last of the three Amiga and alike OSes regarding to browsers it has something that none the others have (except when 3.* is emulated), that is the ability of running on top of linux, so experience can be improved until it reaches the host level without much grief for the user. On native though it don't happen that way...
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Piru on December 07, 2006, 09:59:45 PM
@Fransexy_

Doom or Quake weren't going to happen because the game publishers didn't want to consider it (while they were technically wrong in saying amigas could not run Doom, in practice it would have been total disaster, most systems were WAY too slow for Doom back then). Once the source code were released, porting was trivial. It's literally 1 weekend job, while something as complex as Firefox or OpenOffice takes years.

These things just don't compare, not even remotely. I will continue to claim Firefox/Mozilla will not happen.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: c64_d0c on December 07, 2006, 10:24:35 PM
ofcourse it will take years when people throw their time away on not important projects and while all the no-sayers back them up and says "it will never happen"... a good web browser like firebird and an emulator layer is what AROS desperatly need...
________
Buy E Cigarette (http://www.ecigarettes123.com/)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on December 08, 2006, 12:04:32 AM
Quote
What if I wanted to donate to a bounty, but I do not trust the person responsible for keeping my money in escrow?


If you do not trust me, go make up your own system.  Simple as that.

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on December 08, 2006, 12:30:20 AM
Quote
ofcourse it will take years when people throw their time away on not important projects and while all the no-sayers back them up and says "it will never happen"... a good web browser like firebird and an emulator layer is what AROS desperatly need...


Well, there are those who say negative things while sitting on their butts, then there are others who actively doing something to achieve goals.  My hat is off to the AROS developers, their dedication is very inspiring to those of us who doing what we can to motivate and reward them.  The two most critical things to AROS are the number of developers and free time for those developers.  UAE integration is in standby till the developer can free up enough time to work on the entire project.  It will be a huge relief to me once he makes the announcement that he is officially starting.  I rather see the monies collected in the pockets of our developers then sitting in a paypal account.  

Energy and persistence conquer all things. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/34574.html)

Dammy
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bhoggett on December 08, 2006, 12:35:23 AM
@Piru:

Quote
Only if it was for sale, and it isn't.

Fair enough, yet that doesn't change the fact the porting AROS to Efika is an utterly futile exercise for AROS development and progress and would not even happen if it wasn't for certain peoples predilection to throw some money around for cheap publicity.

Ultimately, no one will use AROS on Efika and ARIS will benefit nothing from the port. BBRV gets the usual flah of publicity and some AROS programmer(s) get to work on a pointless project instead of something that will actually be useful.

While I accept Fabio's point that it is asn't "an AROS decision" because no one makes policy decisions, it is damaging to AROS progress nevertheless. IMHO, the lack of policy making in the AROS project is one of its greatest weaknesses.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Tomas on December 08, 2006, 12:50:16 AM
I sadly agree completely with bhoggett.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: falemagn on December 08, 2006, 01:24:21 AM
Quote

bhoggett wrote:
While I accept Fabio's point that it is asn't "an AROS decision" because no one makes policy decisions, it is damaging to AROS progress nevertheless. IMHO, the lack of policy making in the AROS project is one of its greatest weaknesses.


Bill,

AROS is Open Source, this means that anyone can take its sources and do whatever he wants with it, even port it to the Efika. On the same fashion, anyone is free to offer as much money as he wants in order to incentive the port: there's an offer waiting for demand, a demand which might not be there at all in the first place.

In fact, if you haven't noticed it, no one has taken up on the bounty yet.

It would be damaging to AROS if and only if

1) someone had taken up on the bounty

and

2) by accepting the bounty, that person would subtract valuable time to other kind of AROS development.


Considering that (1) hasn't happened yet and (2) is quite unlikely to be the case, there's simply no damage being done.

I personally don't have any interest in porting AROS to the Efika, and if I have to go for the money I will certainly go for the bigger one, and that's not the bounty we're talking about.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: spihunter on December 08, 2006, 03:01:52 AM
I agree w/ bhoggett on this as well.

I would rather see the AROS folks use there effort to the x86 version then waste their time with this.

This board is just for hobbist wanting a cheap PPC motherboard to run a more up to date amiga system then their current 68k 060 system. With a good bit of backward capability at the same time?

Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on December 08, 2006, 04:15:43 AM
Quote
I would rather see the AROS folks use there effort to the x86 version then waste their time with this.


My favorite arch port is  underway (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=21).  It's a total of one developer.  PPC is going to take, again, one developer.  I wouldn't be suprised if the developer who takes on the EFIKA bounty will be mostly interested in PPC and who currently only works on AROS PPC.  In other words, AROS won't lose much, if anything and it does appear to draw user app developers to AROS itself. IMO, I see this as a win-win for AROS.  

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: coldfish on December 08, 2006, 05:44:35 AM
I dont see how an EFIKA port adversely affects AROS development as a whole.  Any contribution is good.

Some of you guys are looking at it as though teamAROS is a buisiness with limited resources, -deliberately directing- funds into a low-priority project.

That isn't the case, bounties are driven by demand and subsequent donations for that bounty's cause.  If there was no EFIKA bounty, it wouldnt necessarily follow that those monies would have been donated to another bounty, more likely they wouldnt have been donated at all.

People interested enough in AROS to donate their hard-earned should be able to choose whatever bounty they want, those not contributing money or time, just have to take what comes.

If you guys really do want UAE and browser support, send in some cash, otherwise your opinions tend to sound a bit...
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: takemehomegrandma on December 08, 2006, 08:43:57 AM
@ bhoggett

Quote
Ultimately, no one will use AROS on Efika and ARIS will benefit nothing from the port.


Hollywood and the Efika is a *perfect match* IMHO. It could function as a foundation for a whole new industry á la SCALA. Who knows whether it will be possible for an eager entrepreneur to reach a reasonable OEM agreement with the MorphOS/OS4 teams? In this context I definitely see a point in having a free (both as in "free of charge", as well as "open source") Amiga operating system running on the Efika, and in this context I also think that AROS itself would be a winner. It would gain attention, and if it actually becomes a component in a commercial product (and if that product becomes a hit), then maybe some sponsored development might start to happen?

A lot of "if's" here, but all in all, in a worst case scenario, an Efika port won't make much difference. In a best case scenario it will. However, it can never be a bad thing though.

(Note, a prerequisite is of course that the Hollywood applications can be run in a same way as they can on MorphOS, ie that AROS offers enough underlying infrastructure, drivers, etc)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: falemagn on December 08, 2006, 09:08:13 AM
@ takemehomegrandma

Hollywood (http://www.airsoftsoftwair.de/en/prod_hollywood.html) already runs on AROS.

However, AROS itself already runs on the Efika too, albeit under Linux, so what would AROS running on the bare hw offer more than it running under Linux? It will rather offer less: less drivers, no virtual memory (as in swappable memory), less ability to track bugs down by means of a debugger, etc...

Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: pixie on December 08, 2006, 11:09:16 AM
Speed? More 'real' resources? And the fact that if it is not the bes solution you can always have the hosted version on Linux?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Georg on December 08, 2006, 11:42:30 AM
Quote
I will continue to claim Firefox/Mozilla will not happen


I don't think so. Once one manages to make a working version using X11, one can do it like the RiscOS guys and instead of using real X11 use a X11-to-native-windowing-system wrapper (in RiscOS they have something called ChoX11).


Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bhoggett on December 08, 2006, 12:15:07 PM
@Fabio:

Quote
AROS is Open Source, this means that anyone can take its sources and do whatever he wants with it, even port it to the Efika. On the same fashion, anyone is free to offer as much money as he wants in order to incentive the port: there's an offer waiting for demand, a demand which might not be there at all in the first place.

I understand that. However, not all open source projects are bounty driven, and the ones that progress best* are the ones which follow a development roadmap and at least a loose schedule.

The ones that tend to drift wherever the wind (or bounties) take them are the ones which tend to get bogged down and stagnate.

Quote
In fact, if you haven't noticed it, no one has taken up on the bounty yet.

It would be damaging to AROS if and only if

1) someone had taken up on the bounty

True.

Quote
and

2) by accepting the bounty, that person would subtract valuable time to other kind of AROS development.


Considering that (1) hasn't happened yet and (2) is quite unlikely to be the case, there's simply no damage being done.

Well, we can't say much about (2) until the bounty is taken. Even then it may be impossible to know if the person who accepts it would otherwise have chosen to work on something more advantageous for AROS as a whole.

I remain of the opinion that a port to Efika is primarily meaningless at best and will use up resources best used elsewhere at worst. People who want to run things like Hollywood on Efika would do so on MorphOS - as that OS is considerably ahead of AROS in development and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. Any suggestion that 68k emulation would be easier to do on PPC is pointless as well because in that case it won't be portable and thus of no use to AROS in general. The only benefit to AROS would be if it helped port more of MorphOS into AROS thus feeding back into the general code base, but as there seems to be very little enthusiasm for convergence from either MOS or AOS4 I don't see much mileage in that either.


* by this I refer to relatively complex team projects. Single developer OSS projects tend to follow a different pattern.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Cymric on December 08, 2006, 12:15:59 PM
Piru was not (entirely) referring to the technical problems, but also to the many, many, MANY hours constructing all of the wrappers, interfaces, abstraction layers and more. This is extremely tedious, extremely boring, and extremely not-rewarding work.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bhoggett on December 08, 2006, 12:20:50 PM
@takemehomegrandma

Quote
Hollywood and the Efika is a *perfect match* IMHO.

Perhaps, but unless I am very much mistaken a MorphOS "port" to Efika will be ready before a native AROS one will, and Hollywood works on MorphOS.

Alternatively, AROS works hosted on Linux so Hollywood on AROS on Linux is already an option - and it benefits from extra driver support compared to what is likely to be available to a native AROS version.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: falemagn on December 08, 2006, 01:06:53 PM
Quote

Speed?


AROS hosted isn't slow at all.

Quote

More 'real' resources?


What does that mean?

Quote

And the fact that if it is not the bes solution you can always have the hosted version on Linux?


If it's not the best solution, why develop it at all?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: pixie on December 08, 2006, 06:11:15 PM
Quote
AROS hosted isn't slow at all.

I would assume, pedantically I may assume it, that it would be slower then AROS native, not meaning by it that it was slow at all

Quote
What does that mean?

That if AROS isn't hosted it bangs for the metal whereas on hosted it doesn't, or atleast it uses linux ones (it was mainly a reference for using swaps memory from linux). On native the resources needed for Linux are gone and only those of AROS are taking into consideration

Quote
If it's not the best solution, why develop it at all?

Because the world isn't flat, and if it isn't the best suited tool for one job it might well be for another... take linux, it might not be the best tool for desktop but it is seen as such server wide
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: iamaboringperson on December 08, 2006, 07:42:03 PM
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HOT FLASH

I don't like the sound of that!
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Fransexy_ on December 08, 2006, 10:40:10 PM
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Cymric wrote:
Piru was not (entirely) referring to the technical problems, but also to the many, many, MANY hours constructing all of the wrappers, interfaces, abstraction layers and more. This is extremely tedious, extremely boring, and extremely not-rewarding work.


$10,373.02  are not rewarding????  :-?  :-?  :-?
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Cymric on December 09, 2006, 12:37:12 AM
No. Considering the amount of manhours which are sunk into this nigh bottomless pit, $10.000 is a laughable amount of money. I doubt you'd be able to hire a professional programmer for more than 3 or 4 months for that amount. Outsourcing to China or India gets 3, maybe 4 programmers, I think.

Apart from that, the non-rewarding part stems from the fact that it is rather low-level stuff which isn't very visible nor endowed with a high 'wow! cool!'-factor. To the user, it isn't really special when a window with a few gadgets is put on-screen, while in fact this is a very, very tough nut to crack in this project.

Have you ever tried Amigafying a program which is breathing Unix at every line of code? I have, and that was a program 100 times smaller than Firefox which didn't use any graphical UI nor publically available low-level libraries such as GDK, GTK+, libpng, and the like---in the end I got so fed up that I simply used the program on my PC instead. (The nasty proneness to crashing of the Amiga made coding a hell, too.) The people toying with the Firefox port are in effect backporting 10 years of software engineering advances on the Unix-platform to a platform which, while sharing some rudimentary characteristics, operates in a radically different way, nor is really supportive of projects of this magnitude and complexity. But hey, it's their spare time, not mine. To each their own.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: falemagn on December 09, 2006, 10:46:46 AM
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pixie wrote:
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AROS hosted isn't slow at all.

I would assume, pedantically I may assume it, that it would be slower then AROS native, not meaning by it that it was slow at all


AROS hosted is certainly slower, but on x86 and by a marginal factor. This is essentially due to the fact that AROS native has virtual memory shut off, which saves about 10% or less of speed. As far as I know (but I might be wrong), you can't shut virtual memory off on the PPC.

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What does that mean?

That if AROS isn't hosted it bangs for the metal whereas on hosted it doesn't, or atleast it uses linux ones (it was mainly a reference for using swaps memory from linux). On native the resources needed for Linux are gone and only those of AROS are taking into consideration
[/quote]


But in practical terms, why would that be of your concern? You'll see no disadvantages from that, just advantages.

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If it's not the best solution, why develop it at all?

Because the world isn't flat, and if it isn't the best suited tool for one job it might well be for another... take linux, it might not be the best tool for desktop but it is seen as such server wide[/quote]
[/quote]

If it's best suited for some jobs, better know that in advance rather than find it out only when the port is done: it's not like time and efforts come for free.

So, if you have in mind some things for which AROS natively running on the Efika is better than AROS running within Linux on the Efika, just say it? :-)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: pixie on December 09, 2006, 01:10:12 PM
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So, if you have in mind some things for which AROS natively running on the Efika is better than AROS running within Linux on the Efika, just say it? :-)

It's good for AROS ego! ;-) I think efficiency is key regarding EFIKA, and AROS being an Am*ga OS represents it, adding a layer goes one step backward, unless you could integrate both user interfaces to run as one, AROS apps would be then seen as the same as linux... and... after 'seeing his work god saw it to be good' ;-)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: FerretSimp on January 23, 2007, 02:50:22 PM
Reasons for the Efika:

The whole system, a dedicated AROS PPC system , can be built for under £200.

It's Small, so it won't take up your entire office, like a PC based Amiga.

It will be the first "official" AROS computer. That's actually quite a big step when you think about it. A machine that you can go out and buy, specially to run AROS on.

Obsolete? Yes. But so's your 7.14mhz A500, and no one seems to complain about those around here. It gets you a proper Open-Amiga for a low price, in a small form factor that you can stack on top of your PC.

The point is, it's a beginning. Yeah sure, we'd ALL love to see AROS on a 64 bit Three-core Multiple gigahert IBM PowerPC system, but it's just not going to happen, is it!? And even if it did, almost no-one here could afford them anyway.

So stop griping at the project paid for considerably by the company who makes them, ok? The fact that any company is taking an interest in building AROSMIGA's is great.

I welcome it, at least.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: koaftder on January 23, 2007, 03:10:05 PM
Quote

FerretSimp wrote:
Reasons for the Efika:

The whole system, a dedicated AROS PPC system , can be built for under £200.

It's Small, so it won't take up your entire office, like a PC based Amiga.

It will be the first "official" AROS computer. That's actually quite a big step when you think about it. A machine that you can go out and buy, specially to run AROS on.

Obsolete? Yes. But so's your 7.14mhz A500, and no one seems to complain about those around here. It gets you a proper Open-Amiga for a low price, in a small form factor that you can stack on top of your PC.

The point is, it's a beginning. Yeah sure, we'd ALL love to see AROS on a 64 bit Three-core Multiple gigahert IBM PowerPC system, but it's just not going to happen, is it!? And even if it did, almost no-one here could afford them anyway.

So stop griping at the project paid for considerably by the company who makes them, ok? The fact that any company is taking an interest in building AROSMIGA's is great.

I welcome it, at least.


800MHz PC w/ 256MB ram, 20Gig HD from dumpster: free

You can goto a thrift store and pick up a PC with twice the power of an efka for $20 and run aros on it. To me, aros on efika is worthless.

I do hope a port is made avaiable though, for the only reason that it will help force the codebase to be multi arch.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: FerretSimp on January 23, 2007, 03:32:50 PM
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koaftder wrote:

800MHz PC w/ 256MB ram, 20Gig HD from dumpster: free

You can goto a thrift store and pick up a PC with twice the power of an efka for $20 and run aros on it. To me, aros on efika is worthless.


Wow! The wonder of the free country. Over here, they'll charge you $200 for a P2.

And you can't directly compare the processor megahertz, the 400mhz PPC chips tended to be at least as powerful as the 700-800mhz chips they were competing with.

Maybe the PC would have more ram, but it's still a huge, butt ugly PC. PC. Not Amiga, not AROS computer. I hate PC hardware. It's shoddy, cheap and unreliable. My PC's tendto average 5-6 years TOPS before they burn out, while some manage 3 years. I have UNIX workstations and Amigas and goodnes knows what else, running still when they were madein the early nineties.

In fact I think my oldest functional PC is around 1997 after continual repair with NOS parts, whereas I have a BBC that still work perfectly.

If you want to stick with a PC, stick with a PC. GO install windows. I'm happy with getting an Amiga.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bloodline on January 23, 2007, 03:42:44 PM
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FerretSimp wrote:
Quote

koaftder wrote:

800MHz PC w/ 256MB ram, 20Gig HD from dumpster: free

You can goto a thrift store and pick up a PC with twice the power of an efka for $20 and run aros on it. To me, aros on efika is worthless.


Wow! The wonder of the free country. Over here, they'll charge you $200 for a P2.


Actually I can find 600MHz PIII's and Athlons in skips... they are pretty much free... a local Computer store had some 1Ghz Athlon XPs for £5 the other week...

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And you can't directly compare the processor megahertz, the 400mhz PPC chips tended to be at least as powerful as the 700-800mhz chips they were competing with.


Don't be silly. a 400Mhz PPC G4 is about as fast as a 400Mhz PIII...

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Maybe the PC would have more ram, but it's still a huge, butt ugly PC. PC. Not Amiga, not AROS computer. I hate PC hardware. It's shoddy, cheap and unreliable.


Shoddy, cheap, unreliable? lets see some stats?

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My PC's tendto average 5-6 years TOPS before they burn out, while some manage 3 years.


You called 6 years unreliable? Weird...

After 3 years computer hardware is obsolete. Fact.

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I have UNIX workstations and Amigas and goodnes knows what else, running still when they were madein the early nineties.


That must be nice for you...?

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In fact I think my oldest functional PC is around 1997 after continual repair with NOS parts, whereas I have a BBC that still work perfectly.


Right... and I have a TI-82 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-82) that is probably more functional than your BBC...

Quote

If you want to stick with a PC, stick with a PC. GO install windows. I'm happy with getting an Amiga.


Good.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: koaftder on January 23, 2007, 03:45:24 PM
Quote

FerretSimp wrote:
Quote

koaftder wrote:

800MHz PC w/ 256MB ram, 20Gig HD from dumpster: free

You can goto a thrift store and pick up a PC with twice the power of an efka for $20 and run aros on it. To me, aros on efika is worthless.


Wow! The wonder of the free country. Over here, they'll charge you $200 for a P2.

And you can't directly compare the processor megahertz, the 400mhz PPC chips tended to be at least as powerful as the 700-800mhz chips they were competing with.

Maybe the PC would have more ram, but it's still a huge, butt ugly PC. PC. Not Amiga, not AROS computer. I hate PC hardware. It's shoddy, cheap and unreliable. My PC's tendto average 5-6 years TOPS before they burn out, while some manage 3 years. I have UNIX workstations and Amigas and goodnes knows what else, running still when they were madein the early nineties.

In fact I think my oldest functional PC is around 1997 after continual repair with NOS parts, whereas I have a BBC that still work perfectly.

If you want to stick with a PC, stick with a PC. GO install windows. I'm happy with getting an Amiga.


The Efika will never be an Amiga. It will most likely never run os4. If you want aros right now, you need a PC. All Efika is right now, is a linux box, and an underpowerd one at that.

Would you hold your breath waiting for MOS/AOs4 or Aros to be ported to efika? I wouldn't.

Buy an Efika, get a crappy linux box, w00t.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: koaftder on January 23, 2007, 03:54:02 PM
Quote


And you can't directly compare the processor megahertz, the 400mhz PPC chips tended to be at least as powerful as the 700-800mhz chips they were competing with.


Yer right, I wouldn't compare an embedded 603 to a p3, period.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: FerretSimp on January 23, 2007, 03:55:18 PM
Note the >$1000 bounty.

I'm saying that WHEN someone ports AROS, it will be the first AROS computer that's not just a Pizzak' Rrap made by some dodgy PC company in the mid nineties.

Look at the fact that Genesi are putting money into this. They want it to be an AROS box, lots of other people want it to be an AROS box and it would make a far better AROS box board than a K6-2 or a Duron.

Amiga are never going to port anything to anything! They're one of the few companies that I don't consider to even be Amiga anymore! Ex-Parrot.

I'm saying, as several other people are, that when AROS is ported this will be a good system.

Saying that it's a waste of time just because it's obsolete? Why are the people saying that even here? Amiga is obsolete. Everything to do with Amiga is obsolete. It's never going to be anything BUT obsolete. The closest you'll come now is one of the new Be replacements.

Lots of people just happen to think that an Obsolete computer specially for the Obsolete Open Source Operating system, would be good.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: skurk on January 23, 2007, 03:59:59 PM
Quote

koaftder wrote:
800MHz PC w/ 256MB ram, 20Gig HD from dumpster: free

You can goto a thrift store and pick up a PC with twice the power of an efka for $20 and run aros on it. To me, aros on efika is worthless.

I do hope a port is made avaiable though, for the only reason that it will help force the codebase to be multi arch.


Dude, you're missing the coolness factor. :-)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: koaftder on January 23, 2007, 04:05:03 PM
Quote

FerretSimp wrote:
Note the >$1000 bounty.

I'm saying that WHEN someone ports AROS, it will be the first AROS computer that's not just a Pizzak' Rrap made by some dodgy PC company in the mid nineties.

Look at the fact that Genesi are putting money into this. They want it to be an AROS box, lots of other people want it to be an AROS box and it would make a far better AROS box board than a K6-2 or a Duron.

Amiga are never going to port anything to anything! They're one of the few companies that I don't consider to even be Amiga anymore! Ex-Parrot.

I'm saying, as several other people are, that when AROS is ported this will be a good system.

Saying that it's a waste of time just because it's obsolete? Why are the people saying that even here? Amiga is obsolete. Everything to do with Amiga is obsolete. It's never going to be anything BUT obsolete. The closest you'll come now is one of the new Be replacements.

Lots of people just happen to think that an Obsolete computer specially for the Obsolete Open Source Operating system, would be good.


If they wanted AROS on the Efika, they would have hired a guy to port it. Paying 1000 dollars to port an operating system to a new platform is like pissing in a developers coffee mug. Genesi has played every trick in the book to sucker people into thinking the Efika has something to do with amiga when in fact, it's just an embedded device running linux at the moment.

Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bloodline on January 23, 2007, 04:09:43 PM
Quote

FerretSimp wrote:
Note the >$1000 bounty.

I'm saying that WHEN someone ports AROS, it will be the first AROS computer that's not just a Pizzak' Rrap made by some dodgy PC company in the mid nineties.


My Macbook Pro is not a "Pizzak' Rrap made by some dodgy PC company in the mid nineties"!

Quote

Look at the fact that Genesi are putting money into this. They want it to be an AROS box, lots of other people want it to be an AROS box and it would make a far better AROS box board than a K6-2 or a Duron.


It would be a good AROS box. But it would not be as powerful or as cheap as a new Duron...

Quote

Amiga are never going to port anything to anything! They're one of the few companies that I don't consider to even be Amiga anymore! Ex-Parrot.


Amiga don't do anything anymore... it's Hyperion that you want to talk to.

Quote

I'm saying, as several other people are, that when AROS is ported this will be a good system.


Yes it will.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: c64_d0c on January 23, 2007, 05:32:32 PM
this is just another fine way for bbr to sabotage aros... and everyone knows that ainc and hyperion are never gonna cooperate with bbr in anyway.. so aos4.0 will never be released for efika, period!... its about time people wake up!.. if you are gonna support aros put your money where things have been devloped the most, the x86 version...
________
Volcano Vaporizers (http://volcanovaporizer.net/)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: bloodline on January 23, 2007, 05:57:47 PM
Quote

c64_d0c wrote:
this is just another fine way for bbr to sabotage aros... and everyone knows that ainc and hyperion are never gonna cooperate with bbr in anyway.. so aos4.0 will never be released for efika, period!... its about time people wake up!.. if you are gonna support aros put your money where things have been devloped the most, the x86 version...


People are allowed to have AROS running on whatever hardware they want to pay for! :-)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: Crumb on January 23, 2007, 08:25:01 PM
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this is just another fine way for bbr to sabotage aros


 :roflmao:

Interesting conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on February 27, 2007, 01:17:46 AM
by FerretSimp on 2007/1/23 9:50:22

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It will be the first "official" AROS computer. That's actually quite a big step when you think about it. A machine that you can go out and buy, specially to run AROS on.


Actually, no.  Black Troll's LE was the first "official" AROS computer.  I still have AROS on the first "official" AROS laptop.  Pity the OEM was such a {bleep}, I couldn't expose my customers to that type of horrific support.

Dammy
Head Troll
Black Troll Technology Corporation
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: mikrucio on February 27, 2007, 02:58:21 AM
Just because there is a bounty doesn't ACTUALLY MEAN ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN>...

Look at the Amizilla project. as a great example.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: koaftder on February 27, 2007, 03:21:48 AM
Aros on Efika is a waste of time.
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: dammy on February 27, 2007, 04:36:06 AM
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Aros on Efika is a waste of time.


If people want it, then it's not a waste of time.

Dammy
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA is now the biggest ever Team Aros Bounty! **
Post by: mihcael on February 28, 2007, 06:02:23 AM
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If people want it, then it's not a waste of time.


Some People obviously want it, but does anybody want to code it?

Bounty now $1500 (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=46)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA Bounty Maybe Assigned!
Post by: dammy on March 11, 2007, 12:44:14 AM
Looks like we have a probable Developer who wants the bounty. He's written to me in private email requesting the bounty.  I've instructed him to join the teamaros ml and do an official request with a short background description.

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA Bounty Maybe Assigned!
Post by: drewz21 on March 11, 2007, 01:12:57 AM
Woot!  Go AROS!  I am very excited about AROS!
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA Bounty Maybe Assigned!
Post by: bloodline on March 11, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
Did Christoph win the DnD bounty... it seems to work!
Title: Re: ** HOT FLASH ** EFIKA Bounty Maybe Assigned!
Post by: dammy on March 11, 2007, 02:43:37 PM
He is almost finished with it.  Mid April is deadline now since he has university project he needs to finish this month.  He's submitted most of his work already so for most Drag N Drop operations, it's working.

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)