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Offline Matt_HTopic starter

Recent desktop/mobile trends
« on: September 14, 2011, 08:58:18 PM »
Apple has been pulling UI features from iOS into OSX, and now Microsoft is doing the same with Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8.

The UI features in the mobile systems came about because of the limitations inherent in small-form-factor devices. Do you think it makes sense to scale up these UI elements to the desktop, where such limitations don't exist? What does a "large-form" small-form-factor UI do better than a traditional mouse and keyboard? What does it do worse?

Please share your thoughts :)
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 09:54:41 PM »
I think it's a mistake and a dead end, frankly. Apple did an admirable job of condensing their desktop UI down to something that's actually usable on a 9cm touchscreen, but attempting to remodel the desktop UI that already works just fine to make it more like the fun-size clone is just stupid, especially when desktop/laptop computers have not (and are not going to) lose the real versions of the input devices iOS had to be adapted to make do without.

That's also why I think tablets are a dead end, they're just an attempt to copy a UI paradigm for devices that are too small for the normal, time-tested approach to devices that are hardly any smaller than a sub-notebook computer, where those limitations are not inherent. I blame this on the general stabilization of desktop UI; Apple used to make their name on revolutionary usability, but it's hard to keep coming up with new improvements that are really improvements after 25 years of GUI ubiquity, so they've decided they want everybody to pretend that the iOS user interface is more than just a decent compromise given the hardware limitations.

One of the first things I noticed when my brother got an iPad is that he also has a Bluetooth keyboard for it, and well more than half the time he's got them both installed in a leather case that makes the whole affair into a poor man's laptop. I guess I can see the appeal of touchscreens for people who (as most do) don't really think much of touchpads, but aren't comfortable with keyboard-centric navigation, but why not simply integrate touchscreens into laptops and cut out the middle-man?
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Offline tone007

Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 01:18:01 PM »
It actually might make sense.  How many iPhone users really aren't big computer users?  Quite a few, I'd imagine.  Making computers that work like the phones they use every day could be good for sales.

As for tablets, as long as it fits in my pocket I'm happy.  I carried around a 7" one for a while, but it was definitely not pocket sized and therefore I preferred something like a netbook for portable computing.  The 5" tablet/phone devices (few and far between so far) are much more useful to me, pocket sized and convenient but still large enough to, say, remote control my PC at work while out for lunch across town.  The 24+ hour battery life and always-on aspect also make it a much more reliable device than a laptop with a ~5 hour battery life.
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Offline Kesa

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Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 01:54:09 PM »
Off topic a little. In my opinion making a desktop PC with a smart-phone GUI would be most useful in the lounge room. I have the impression that Lion and Windows8 are being aimed at the leisure market of PCs. I guess you could say that the ps3 and the xbox are already (trying) to do this with people using their consoles for things other than games. And you have to admit that using a mouse and pictograph interface while sitting on the sofa would suck and a more smart-phone style app launcher would be preferable.
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Offline Matt_HTopic starter

Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 03:15:00 PM »
Quote from: Kesa;659434
Off topic a little. In my opinion making a desktop PC with a smart-phone GUI would be most useful in the lounge room. I have the impression that Lion and Windows8 are being aimed at the leisure market of PCs. I guess you could say that the ps3 and the xbox are already (trying) to do this with people using their consoles for things other than games. And you have to admit that using a mouse and pictograph interface while sitting on the sofa would suck and a more smart-phone style app launcher would be preferable.


Interesting point. Game console UIs are much more similar to phones than computers.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 03:53:06 PM »
Quote from: tone007;659430
It actually might make sense.  How many iPhone users really aren't big computer users?  Quite a few, I'd imagine.  Making computers that work like the phones they use every day could be good for sales.
"Good for sales" doesn't necessarily mean good, though. Making a desktop UI that's a scaled-up version of a scaled-down compromisation of a real desktop UI might attract a handful of people who can't cope with anything being different, but it's a damn poor utilization of the I/O devices a desktop computer offers.

And I don't even think it's good business sense. Playing to the "help me, grandson, why isn't this like my mePhone" crowd might drum up some initial sales, but if people don't really want to be using a computer in the first place, how long is that going to last? Just until a nicer phone comes out and they jump back to what they really wanted in the first place, that's how long.

Meanwhile you're alienating people who actually liked your desktop OS by mucking around with something they're used to from decades of regular use (just look at the reaction Lion's getting from some long-time Mac users.) This kind of experiment might go over okay if they made it clear they were making a spin-off (as Microsoft did with Windows CE,) but naming it so that it appears to be an attempt to steer the flagship line in a different direction? That's foolhardy.
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 03:56:08 PM »
Gnome 3 did the same thing.  Its awful.

It has been back to XFCE for me since that switch.  The thing is, I really liked KDE 3.X and Gnome 2.X.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Recent desktop/mobile trends
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 04:18:32 PM »
You know, I'd heard about GNOME 3, but I hadn't actually looked until just now. Cheese on toast, what an abomination. That's everything I hate about Vista and iOS in one convenient bundle, right there.

Yep, sticking to 2.
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"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup