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Offline raddude9

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2007, 01:24:44 PM »
I've often thought that a handheld Amiga would be really cool. The low-power PPC chips already exist and the various flavours of AmigaOS (official OS4.0 or AROS) can run well on relatively low spec machines. This to me seems like a much better idea than trying to shoe-horn Linux into a pocketable device.


 

Offline jorkany

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2007, 01:37:57 PM »
eslapion,
Quote
It seems to me that the latest incarnation of the Amiga, the AmigaOne, leaves a lot of people on their appetite.
That's because it's NOT the Amiga.

Quote
If the Amiga is to benefit the latest technology, what would you want it to be?
An expandable Clone-A.
 

Offline jorkany

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2007, 01:44:34 PM »
Waccoon,
Good post, you bring up some valid points. Personally I would like to see Inferno take off especially in the application service world.
 

Offline Agafaster

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2007, 01:58:13 PM »
Quote

raddude9 wrote:
I've often thought that a handheld Amiga would be really cool. The low-power PPC chips already exist and the various flavours of AmigaOS (official OS4.0 or AROS) can run well on relatively low spec machines. This to me seems like a much better idea than trying to shoe-horn Linux into a pocketable device.




yeah nice, but right now, something that exists, and is available if not quite readily available...
something to run OS4 on (cos that exists at least !) dont really care about the spec right now, to be honest,
but PPC with Radeon and Sound blaster is what OS4 currently likes, and is known to run well on.
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Offline MskoDestny

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2007, 03:08:06 PM »
My dream "new Amiga" would be something like this:

Fastest ColdFire CPU
PCI, Ethernet, USB, ATA (or SATA) with DMA
256MB+ Fast, 64MB+ Chip mem
Enhanced AGA compatible chipset in FPGA with the following features:
  Supports all "classic" modes
  Chunky and 16/24/32 depth modes
  Limited 3D support similar to what's in the Sega Saturn (deformed sprites are used as quads to make 3D models)
Classic joystic ports, but hardware support for making USB joystics and mice appear to be available via legacy means so they can be used by hardware banging software
Proper 68000 (or 020 or 030) for booting into a "compatability" mode (possibly integrated into FPGA)
Low level floppy emulation using images on the hard drive

For an OS I'd like to be able to dual boot into AROS and Syllable ( http://www.syllable.org/ ). AROS for running old Amiga software and the full "Amiga experience" and Syllable for an OS that I'd actually like to use for day to day stuff. Of course, at the moment neither of these OSes have working 68K ports, but then again the hardware I described is complete fantasy too. Theoretically classic Amiga OS should run in "compatability mode" if not on the ColdFire with JIT.
 

Offline B00tDisk

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2007, 03:19:22 PM »
Quote

steve30 wrote:
I think a new Amiga should have a nice fast PPC processor (NOT intel)


Yes, that's right, tie it to dead end hardware again - that'll ensure its comback!

 :roll:
Back away from the EU-SSR!
 

Offline yetihw

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2007, 05:16:18 PM »
I'd like to see the next Amiga be for sale.
Couldn\\\'t afford an amiga then can\\\'t afford one now.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2007, 07:26:30 PM »
Cheap... that's what sold Amigas in the past and that is what sells computers now.

Offline cv643d

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2007, 08:45:56 PM »
Next generation should be 100% compatible with A4000 and run Workbench 3.9. It should have at least one videoslot and one Zorro slot.

It should not run on PPC but on a faster 68k CPU so that software should be able to run without recompile. Off course it should have PCIe and SATA etc etc, and it should be available in Mini-ITX/Micro-ATX

I think it is important that the Amiga chipset is on the motherboard and not in software.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2007, 09:01:05 PM »
Quote

cv643d wrote:
Next generation should be 100% compatible with A4000 and run Workbench 3.9. It should have at least one videoslot and one Zorro slot.


Why? Nothing you can buy uses those slots....

Quote

It should not run on PPC but on a faster 68k CPU so that software should be able to run without recompile. Off course it should have PCIe and SATA etc etc, and it should be available in Mini-ITX/Micro-ATX


Why? Just emulate the 68k... there is pretty much no way you could push a 68k much faster than the 68060... the architecture is just too CISC for high speeds...

Quote


I think it is important that the Amiga chipset is on the motherboard and not in software.


Why? Hardware is always a limitation.

Offline amyren

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2007, 09:15:02 PM »
What I would like to see is an Amiga that is likely that the mass-marked would want and buy.
Look at what people are buying right now:
- Big screen TV's that also handles PC-input
- DVD/Harddrive movie recorders
- MediaCenter PC's
- sattelite/cable/Terrestial receivers

So basicly I would like to see an Amiga product that can be a full blown media box that can connect to the HD-TV and handle all these things, and the same time can be used as a computer running OS4.
-And offcourse this product should be there right NOW:)

I have a Dreambox at home and this is a Linux/PPC sattelite receiver thing that already can do many of these things. Its only 250MHz so its rather slow in computer terms, but its some years old already. Still it can record TV to hardrive, play music and movies stored on the harddrive, it can connect to the internet and browse it (although not the most modern browser). Some models have a plug-in module system so you can have two different tuners in, eg one for sattelite and one for Cable or Terrestial. Some models allows you to add a DVD as well. You can get a wireless keyboard for it as well, but the OS's that are made for it does not make use of the box as a full computer.

So what I would like to see is a box like the above, but with more modern specs and running on AmigaOS. It should be sold and marketed like a all-purpose mediabox, and should have a media interface executed by default on startup while AmigaOS is running in the background so that computer novices did not even need to know its was a computer they was using. The AmigaOS workbench should be easy available from the mediainterface, and offcourse configurable so that you could start it like a normal Amiga and just launch the mediainterface when needed. Also there should be some audio-video inputs as well so you could record and edit from any video source.
It is possible today to make a box that can do all this, using a regular pc as a base and adding DVB-S or DVB-T pci cards. But I have yet to see this put together in a full package, and even if it was, I still think the software solutions available today are not quite good enaugh to make this userfriendly enaugh for the end user.
 

Offline amiga_3k

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2007, 09:31:02 PM »
I haven't read all the concepts dreamt up here, just to keep the head clear :-)

My idea of a new Amiga is this.

Hardware wise the basic components should be off-the-shelf. Let's face it, the Amiga market atm doesn't justify the development of new components.

In essence, I think it should be an off-the-shelf motherboard (from, say, ECS) with a choice of socketed or SMD'ed AMD64 Turion processor, socketed or SMD'ed bags of RAM (it's cheap nowadays so glue it on!) and some ATI graphics-chip. Or in other words: Dirt-cheap AMD64/ATI platformed motherboard with lowish power-consumption.

To make this board an Amiga I think the BIOS should be replaced by a combo of FPGA, and flashable Firmware. This can function as a modern-day Amiga KickstartROM system. Why? Well.. the FPGA can be used as a compatibility-layer for old-school Amiga software. If it's big enough, it should even be possible to integrate 68020 or PPC.

The firmware-part should take care of a few things:

1) Hold an old-school BIOS to keep PC or even IntelMac compatibility
2) Hold AmigaOS4.x startup-code
3) Hold a mechanism to program the FPGA for 68k software
4) Hold a mechanism to distinguish in which way it should start.

Explanation
1) Hold an old-school BIOS to keep PC compatibility
Unfortunately we all need a Windows PC every now and then (in the Netherlands we need 'm for doing our taxes!). It also allows Windows Games to be played. Implementation could be self-sensing based on the media placed in the removable drive or by pressing both mouse-buttons and access a early-startup.


2) Hold AmigaOS4.x startup-code
This is only needed for 'wink of an eye' startup-time.

3) Hold a mechanism to program the FPGA for 68k software
If a CD or floppy from a classic Amiga is inserted, the FPGA should be programmed accordingly and start 'classic Amiga' with self sensing OCS/ECS/AGA.

4) Hold a mechanism to distinguish in which way it should start.
Depending on the removable media being inserted the system should sense how it should start. With a powerfull FPGA there are limitless ways it could start. Think Nintendo, Sega, XBox, Playstation, etc... etc... Only thing important: The user shouldn't press a button.

Sofar... the hardware.

edit... being sober now;-)

Then, we need an OS. This should be Reliable, Efficient, Fast, Slim,  an OS! It should perform the tasks an OS should: establish and maintain communication between the different pieces of hardware and influence the communication based on user input.

The user input (and feedback to the user) should be taken care of the GUI. There should be basic functionality available and people should be allowed / able to expand the functionality to their likings. This is essential, I think, as Amiga-users have done just that over the past decade when there was no clear direction given as to where the Amiga should go. As a direct consequence of that decade of user-development it is near impossible to create one solution everybody likes.

And in the end, it should be available, like yesterday!
Get a SAM, while you can! The new AMIGA is here!
 

Offline PMC

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2007, 09:42:47 PM »
Ask me this question five years ago my response would be somewhat different, but today I'd settle for an Intel/AMD based machine provided that the following conditions were met:

1) Full legacy compatibility

2) Graphics hardware and CPU upgradeability

3) At least one headline grabbing application

Cecilia for President
 

Offline meega

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2007, 09:43:24 PM »
Quote

eslapion wrote:
By now everybody has a good idea what I think about ideas like "saving the classic Amiga".
...
After I get some feedback from you all, I'll give you my opinion on this.

Come on then eslapion. Tell us your thoughts.
:)
 

Offline Boot_WB

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2007, 10:09:19 PM »
One thing that irritates me about having MorphOS, AmigaOS, OS4, Windows and wanting a laptop too is having 5 different computers to run the damn things. I just want one box, why do I need 5 different hard drives, 5 CD/DVD drives, 5 floppies, 5 psu's etc?

Th cabling form one computer is a headache for most people - 5 in one room? Forget it.

Let's be realistic - the mass market is not going to ditch Windows or the existing form of easily upgradeable PC in the foreseeable future. Neither am I - most of the software I use will only run under windows.
IF a next-gen Amiga was created as a pci card SBC - incorporating ram slots and any custom chips onto the pci card - using all the other resources (pci, usb, ps/2, parallel) from the host computer this could easily be a realistic upgrade for more than just us geeks.

I believe what Amiga - in this form - needs to sell is just 1 or 2 killer apps. If the app could be bought with the SBC Amiga it could run in ANY pc - no need for expensive hardware, no need to run on x86 (for the purists).

Also - installation and configuration needs to have (at least the option of) easy GUI based front ends, and detailed help files. I would like to retain the option of switching all the bells and whistles off, but for most people the thought of editing a text-based configuration file is terrifying. Put a GUI in front of it showing the options in drop-down menus and it's a lot less daunting.
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Offline MskoDestny

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Re: What would you want the next Amiga to be?
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 11, 2007, 10:30:08 PM »
Quote
Why? Just emulate the 68k... there is pretty much no way you could push a 68k much faster than the 68060... the architecture is just too CISC for high speeds...

That hasn't stopped x86. On modern CPUs RISC doesn't buy you much anymore. The die space needed for the extra front end complexity is insignificant on a modern desktop CPU and even the RISC processors have some front end translation going on now.

I doubt there ever will be a high performance 68K processor, but the reasons for that are economic not technical.

Anyway, while your question was directed at someone else, the reason I would want a real 68K (or at least a close cousin of the 68K like the ColdFire) is because I don't really want an Amiga for any real practical purpose. A bog standard x86 PC running a non-Amiga OS does that fine. I just find the Amiga hardware neat and I think the 68K family of processors is also quite cool. I essentially want a geek toy, not a practical machine that will bring Amiga back as a contender on the desktop.