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Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: TheBilgeRat on May 08, 2013, 11:19:19 PM

Title: Which AROS?
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 08, 2013, 11:19:19 PM
I have an old P4 that I would like to turn into a dedicated AROS machine.  I noticed that there are several flavors to choose from.  Should I go with AROS proper, or Icaros, or some other version for a dedicated hard drive install?
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 08, 2013, 11:24:25 PM
Well you can do it the "Amiga way" and install the base OS and then spend days on end dicking about installing all the software you need and twiddling with the settings.

Or install Icaros/Broadway and have the full works already installed so you don't have to do anything.

I know which is most fun for me. :)
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 08, 2013, 11:27:28 PM
I take it that would be Icaros then ;)

I am having plenty of fun mucking about with the A4000, no need to double it up
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 08, 2013, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;734205
I take it that would be Icaros then ;)


How dare you insult my good name with such scurrilous allegations against my masochistic Amiga fiddling credentials? ;)

Quote

I am having plenty of fun mucking about with the A4000, no need to double it up


I know of no other hobby as great as ours.

I'm having much fun getting my 3.9 install just how I want it under UAE before taking over our spare bedroom with my A3000 and a bajillion spare parts and running it on the bare metal.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 09, 2013, 02:20:34 AM
Quote from: nicholas;734208
How dare you insult my good name with such scurrilous allegations against my masochistic Amiga fiddling credentials? ;)


I say!  Then I shall do no such thing in the future.  Mea Culpa!

Quote

I know of no other hobby as great as ours.

I'm having much fun getting my 3.9 install just how I want it under UAE before taking over our spare bedroom with my A3000 and a bajillion spare parts and running it on the bare metal.


I was running classicWB ADV SP BYOB 123 or some such and it was driving me nuts as I would put something in user-startup and next thing I know it wasn't doing what I wanted it to do so I stripped it off and was going to do 3.9 but then it took me forever to figure out how to get the emergency disk straight so by the time Thomas straightened me out I had put 3.1 back on and BetterWB and now I am just ducky! :)

I am debating whether or not to do newIcons or not.  We'll see :D
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 09, 2013, 02:21:56 AM
But, as an aside, I have a great CED/vbcc build environment so I might start playing with novacoder's API here soon.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: fishy_fiz on May 09, 2013, 07:15:58 AM
There's also AspireOS, which is more minimal, but contains the essentials that the nighly builds dont contain (browser, movie player, graphics/sound software, etc.).

For me its a better starting point as I like to do my OS customising myself, and AspireOS is better suited there (no need to strip back a bigger distro, but also dont need to start from "scratch" as a person would need to with a nightly build).

Now having said that if a person is new to AROS I might be a little more inclined to suggest Icaros for no reason than it being more respresentative of a fully customised/setup AROS system.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 09, 2013, 08:37:34 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;734223
I say!  Then I shall do no such thing in the future.  Mea Culpa!



I was running classicWB ADV SP BYOB 123 or some such and it was driving me nuts as I would put something in user-startup and next thing I know it wasn't doing what I wanted it to do so I stripped it off and was going to do 3.9 but then it took me forever to figure out how to get the emergency disk straight so by the time Thomas straightened me out I had put 3.1 back on and BetterWB and now I am just ducky! :)

I am debating whether or not to do newIcons or not.  We'll see :D


I've made a 3.1+ Better WB and a few other bits as the first partition. Nice and simple and works great as a rescue boot disk when I install something in my 3.9 startup that borks it up.

I recommend Kens Icons plus Peter K's new icon library if you've got plenty of RAM.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 09, 2013, 08:42:37 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;734224
But, as an aside, I have a great CED/vbcc build environment so I might start playing with novacoder's API here soon.


Cool!  I've got some nice tools and docs I can email you if you want?
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: bloodline on May 09, 2013, 11:59:06 AM
On an x86 machine, I'll use Icaros and then strip it back to something close to AmigaOS 3.1... As that's the experience I want :)
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: mykrowyre on May 09, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
Regarding AROS, it's been awhile since I've played with it.  I did try MorphOs, and it's very nice, and running classic software was very seamless and fantastic...BUT running on old hardware doesn't really appeal to me because it seems like a dead end, much like the Amiga was hardware wise (towards the end of days).

I've always like where AROS was going, but it was just not "there" yet.

Is it stable enough these days to be fully installed on the HD and run as a daily use desktop machine?  I would like to write some code again for the Amiga... just as a hobby, but I am hesitant to dual boot it if there is a chance it's going to destroy my partition table and wipe out osx, windows, etc.

I realize it's not as finished as MorphOs, but it is open source and it runs on modern hardware so I think it has a better longterm outlook.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: bloodline on May 09, 2013, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: mykrowyre;734252
Regarding AROS, it's been awhile since I've played with it.  I did try MorphOs, and it's very nice, and running classic software was very seamless and fantastic...BUT running on old hardware doesn't really appeal to me because it seems like a dead end, much like the Amiga was hardware wise (towards the end of days).

I've always like where AROS was going, but it was just not "there" yet.

Is it stable enough these days to be fully installed on the HD and run as a daily use desktop machine?  I would like to write some code again for the Amiga... just as a hobby, but I am hesitant to dual boot it if there is a chance it's going to destroy my partition table and wipe out osx, windows, etc.

I realize it's not as finished as MorphOs, but it is open source and it runs on modern hardware so I think it has a better longterm outlook.
If you don't want to dual boot (it uses grub so it's unlikely to nuke your drive), then use the live cd or USB stick option.

You could use it as a daily machine now if you wanted to (all one really needs is a web browser), but I would hold off until the ABI V1 transition is complete (very soon). Nothing stopping you having a play now though :)
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Iggy on May 09, 2013, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: mykrowyre;734252
Regarding AROS, it's been awhile since I've played with it.  I did try MorphOs, and it's very nice, and running classic software was very seamless and fantastic...BUT running on old hardware doesn't really appeal to me because it seems like a dead end, much like the Amiga was hardware wise (towards the end of days).

I've always like where AROS was going, but it was just not "there" yet.

Is it stable enough these days to be fully installed on the HD and run as a daily use desktop machine?  I would like to write some code again for the Amiga... just as a hobby, but I am hesitant to dual boot it if there is a chance it's going to destroy my partition table and wipe out osx, windows, etc.

I realize it's not as finished as MorphOs, but it is open source and it runs on modern hardware so I think it has a better longterm outlook.


I periodically set up an AROS system.
For awhile I even kept a system dedicated to it (but have recently sold the 7600GT video card I kept for that  purpose).
I am convinced that AROS will indeed "get there" on day.

MorphOS is already there, in fact its the most "there" of any of the NG OS'.
And yes, the hardware is not new.
Frank Mariak (Pega-1) has explored a port for the SAM460, but even though new, this PPC system would be slower than our current systems.

So I'll keep my G4 Macs, wait for G5 MorphOS support, and periodically check out AROS.
AROS has some serious potential (especially with ported OpenGL based programs).
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 09, 2013, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: Iggy;734256
I periodically set up an AROS system.
For awhile I even kept a system dedicated to it (but have recently sold the 7600GT video card I kept for that  purpose).
I am convinced that AROS will indeed "get there" on day.

MorphOS is already there, in fact its the most "there" of any of the NG OS'.
And yes, the hardware is not new.
Frank Mariak (Pega-1) has explored a port for the SAM460, but even though new, this PPC system would be slower than our current systems.

So I'll keep my G4 Macs, wait for G5 MorphOS support, and periodically check out AROS.
AROS has some serious potential (especially with ported OpenGL based programs).


If I had a powerPC kit laying around I'd definitely give MorphOS a go.  Its a lot easier to explore AROS when finding an old PC for free is as simple as hopping on craigslist :D  Or you happen to have one left over lying around.

I bet eventually MorphOS will end up on ARM or Intel and then I'm sure I'll find the money to pony up.

Oh, and Nicholas, I'd love any documentation you could kick my way!
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Iggy on May 09, 2013, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;734258
If I had a powerPC kit laying around I'd definitely give MorphOS a go.  Its a lot easier to explore AROS when finding an old PC for free is as simple as hopping on craigslist :D  Or you happen to have one left over lying around.

I bet eventually MorphOS will end up on ARM or Intel and then I'm sure I'll find the money to pony up.

Oh, and Nicholas, I'd love any documentation you could kick my way!

Do you think you could find something cheaper then this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Power-Mac-G4-Desktop-AS-IS-Z-1-POWERS-ON-STICKS-AT-STARTUP-/400465563636?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=1hdIrfxrzguDhm98wUJLby7%252FNck%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I took a chance on it, and as it turned out it only needed an OS install.

I had to add a Radeon 9000 (an extra $11.50).

$51.49 total or an MDD. And it contained three hard drives.
I left the 250 GB installed and partitioned it for OSX and MorphOS use.
The other two, a 120GB and a 40GB, I took out to install in a Quicksilver.

;) Every AROS system I have set up cost me more.

Of course there is that $111 charge for a MorphOS key.

But if we are talking about just experimenting, the 30 minute limit should be adequate.

MorphOS may eventually move to another ISA (where it will continue to kick ass), but I like the hardware we are using now. It is the cheapest way to get a fast, well designed, PPC system.

BTW - If anyone wants to put together a cheap MorphOS system, PM me.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: phoenixkonsole on May 09, 2013, 06:39:34 PM
: )
My b&w g3 costs 20€ and runs AROS ... so it is cheaper.
with the g4 ZIF upgrade it isn't always a snug..
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Iggy on May 09, 2013, 06:46:12 PM
Quote from: phoenixkonsole;734267
: )
My b&w g3 costs 20€ and runs AROS ... so it is cheaper.
with the g4 ZIF upgrade it isn't always a snug..


Good point!
I forgot about PPC AROS.

Then again, you paid for a G3?
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: phoenixkonsole on May 09, 2013, 06:49:54 PM
: )
Yes. I tend to buy stuff which impressed me at times where I couldn't afford them.
The later generations didn't impress me as the b&w did.
Same is true for some cars...
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 09, 2013, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: Iggy;734265
MorphOS may eventually move to another ISA (where it will continue to kick ass), but I like the hardware we are using now. It is the cheapest way to get a fast, well designed, PPC system.

If MorphOS moves to x86 and retains seamless 68k emulation would that make it "Amithlon done right"? ;)
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: phoenixkonsole on May 09, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
Well... to be honest a x86 Version of MOS would be just another AROS distribution.
Emumiga could have brought that "seamless" integration to AROS.

At the end it may be a Fork of AROS 64bit. MOS has some drawbacks.. as far as i know it can only adress 2GB RAM... AROS can do more. AROS has a better 3D system. If you would port Ambient to AROS you would have more or less the best solution.
Just porting that existing stuff over(reinventing the wheel) is waste of time.

JanusUAE with "original AMIGAOS" and coherency is nice and emulates also custom chips.
100% compatible.

EDIT:
Amithlon done right is AROS68k running on top of Linux using native x86 apps and or libraries.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Iggy on May 09, 2013, 07:44:13 PM
Quote from: phoenixkonsole;734271
: )
Yes. I tend to buy stuff which impressed me at times where I couldn't afford them.
The later generations didn't impress me as the b&w did.
Same is true for some cars...


Yeah, I can dig that.
I still like the blueberry colored hardware I've still got an Epson printer that color that I use under MorphOS.
And I'd like to own an 81 Bertone X1/9.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Iggy on May 09, 2013, 07:46:06 PM
duplicate post.
my bad.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: mykrowyre on May 09, 2013, 08:11:02 PM
Quote from: Iggy;734281
Yeah, I can dig that.
I still like the blueberry colored hardware I've still got an Epson printer that color that I use under MorphOS.
And I'd like to own an '81 Bertone X1/9.

Wait so is there a version of AROS that will run on my old iMac G3 and iMac G4? Blueberry :D
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Iggy on May 09, 2013, 08:26:03 PM
Quote from: mykrowyre;734284
Wait so is there a version of AROS that will run on my old iMac G3 and iMac G4? Blueberry :D


...hosted under PPC linux, yes

http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/ports.php#aros-linux-ppc.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 09, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
Quote from: Iggy;734286
...hosted under PPC linux, yes

http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/ports.php#aros-linux-ppc.


Hosted on PPC OSX too.

darwin-ppc-system: http://aros.sourceforge.net/nightly.php
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: Fats on May 10, 2013, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: bloodline;734253but I would hold off until the ABI V1 transition is complete (very soon).[/QUOTE


Be careful, I am less optimistic then most other AROS devs we can release ABIv1 very soon. I do see a considerable amount of work ahead. Need to find time to write email regarding that to the dev-list. But I am prioritizing the C library work for the moment.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: hbarcellos on May 10, 2013, 01:58:13 PM
How can I be entitled to try Aeros?
Apparently there's the need for user and password to get the iso...
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: OlafS3 on May 10, 2013, 02:52:52 PM
Send a email that you want to try aeros
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: hbarcellos on May 10, 2013, 03:01:49 PM
I will, thank you.
And, I happen to also have an old iMac g3 600mhz at home. Is there a ppc version of Aros that I could try on it? On Iso format (couldnt find it on the above link)
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: OlafS3 on May 10, 2013, 03:07:50 PM
I mean to phoenixkonsole or to the email on the aeros page
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: OlafS3 on May 10, 2013, 03:10:23 PM
I am not sure about PPC. The SAM 460 version has stopped at the moment because the person doing it has not much time at the moment. I would recommend you to ask your questions on aros-exec.org where all developers look regulary at.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: nicholas on May 10, 2013, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;734386
I will, thank you.
And, I happen to also have an old iMac g3 600mhz at home. Is there a ppc version of Aros that I could try on it? On Iso format (couldnt find it on the above link)


You'll probably need to run it hosted on top of OSX or Linux.
Title: Re: Which AROS?
Post by: mykrowyre on May 12, 2013, 03:53:55 AM
Hosted... nah... if I need to run another OS, I'd just use UAE. I want to run AROS native :D