Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 06:21:27 PM
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With all the recent threads going on about copyright etc.. I reckon this poll will go down as the one with the least ever responses. :)
However if you brave enough or honest enougth, it would be quite interesting to see the results... :)
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umm what poll ?
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Barry Altman is a 220lb Southern man of questionable character.
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umm what poll ?
This poll !!!!
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No, this pole!
(http://rlv.zcache.com/north_pole_postcard-p239257076527479751qibm_400.jpg)
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Amiga games, yes.
Software within the last 10 years, no.
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Look's warmer there than Scotland on a hot day... :)
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.......yes......
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I have to say "yes" for very old software that I've come across which I can no longer obtain through legal channels. However, I'm a stickler for purchasing anything recent, and give my co-workers a hard time for constantly torrenting new games / applications / OSes.
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Only Microsoft products!
But seriously I always try to support developers. And besides, it would be bad karma since I'm a programmer by profession.
I do regret pirating so much Amiga software back in the day but then again I couldn't afford it and I didn't have the adult ethics to know why it was a bad idea.
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And for those who pirate software that is still available "through legal channels" .....Do you have any reservations about shoplifting (other than getting caught)?
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Yes. I don't want to say "it's software vendors fault", but seriously. I will buy OS licenses almost every time, because I don't want to deal with the hassle of having to use a workaround, or leaving someone's OS unpatched, but:
New computer from Dell factory outlet: $600, +$150 for monitor (includes Win7 Pro license)
compared to
Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro: $389
Office 2010 Pro: $411
(prices from newegg.com)
I'll switch our users over to OpenOffice, before ever paying that sort of ridiculous amount for basic productivity software. :-/
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I've pretty much weaned myself off of proprietary and commercial software anyway, but I still use windows on a lot of machines, and I don't pay for the privilege. I think it's worth pointing out, however, that while I never payed anything for any of my windows licences, I didn't pirate them either. I just reuse product keys from discarded computers or systems which have been updated to newer OSs.
There's really nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.
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And for those who pirate software that is still available "through legal channels" .....Do you have any reservations about shoplifting (other than getting caught)?
Oh come on now. If you're going to equate piracy with another crime, at least make it something that fits, like parking without paying the meter.
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@ orb85750: Ehh, you can't copy candy bars....
Not defending pirating, but it IS a difference.
@ kedawa: +1
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And for those who pirate software that is still available "through legal channels" .....Do you have any reservations about shoplifting (other than getting caught)?
I reckon I should have worded the question a bit better, but I was really only meaning do you still use old software that is no longer available to actually purchase or obtain legally.
I know it does not matter how old it is, it's still piracy, but with the Amiga's situation for a vast majority of cases their is no other way of obtaining or using this old software.
Be it shareware or a commercial product, if It's still available to buy or pay a shareware fee I personally still buy or pay for such a product, but I'm not going to hide the fact that I still use plenty of old software that is no longer available to buy or pay the shareware fees on.
Why would I shoplift when the product is there to be bought !
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Short answer, yes. Slightly longer one, yes, but entirely legally. I have certain copyrighted software that was not paid for, but use with the vendor's express permission.
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Short answer, yes. Slightly longer one, yes, but entirely legally. I have certain copyrighted software that was not paid for, but use with the vendor's express permission.
So wheres your Vote then Karlos... :)
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So wheres your Vote then Karlos... :)
I declined to vote given that the wording of the poll carried the implicit suggestion that the unpaid for software was in use illegally, which is not the case.
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Well, when I was younger.. I pirated quite a bit, mostly apps. , I could usually afford games :)
Now tho, I always buy programs, even those not available through 'regular channels'. I lucked out and found CityBuilder and Cathedral sets for Lightwave from a very sketchy seller on EBay (about 1 week after I got my disks, the seller lost his account)
Sadly, now it seems like everyone selling Amiga items on EPay thinks they have the rarest item on Earth..... LightROM sets that used to go for $10-15 are now $39.99 and up..... Bleachhh! That's .05 more than the original list price !?&#$!*?
I now always buy/register progs. that I use regularly, money permitting ... :(
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Short answer, yes. Slightly longer one, yes, but entirely legally. I have certain copyrighted software that was not paid for, but use with the vendor's express permission.
Yep, GPL is still a copyright. I use free, but copyrighted, software all the time.
As for commercial software... Very rarely would I pirate, anymore. I suppose there are probably one or two things on my home system, but I try to use properly licensed commercial software when I have to. (Usually only when a decent GPL version doesn't exist.)
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With all the recent threads going on about copyright etc.. I reckon this poll will go down as the one with the least ever responses. :)
However if you brave enough or honest enougth, it would be quite interesting to see the results... :)
Simply answer **** off u N**** C***, Go and ask a Cop have they ever smoked dope or driven over the speed limit.
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No I don't. No I wouldn't. And seriously I believe it is utterly wrong. This extends to downloading music, videos or any other form of entertainment. It's not just piracy but theft. Anything in the collection that I could not verify its authenticity never gets used. There is nothing on any computer in this house used by me that has been pirated. I just don`t agree with it. And I'm serious.
All my Amiga disks that come into the collection with copied games and software get recycled. Always have done.
And it doesn`t matter if the product is no longer available. Just cus a company has gone bust doesn`t give you the right to break into the warehouse and take what you want. It's not yours and you have no legal right irrespective of any view you might have. You are breaking the law.
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. And seriously I believe it is utterly You are breaking the law.
Breaking a law, is that the same as breaking the law ? I am fairly certain I contravene quite a few laws everyday.
* Dropping Cigarette Butts (I roll mine, so they bio-degrade...)
* Speed Limit
* Turning right ahead of a queue of cars
* Undertaking
* Using demo/trial software beyond their 30days warning e.g Winzip
* Taking Pens home from work. They just slip in there.
* Do a favour for someone then receiving beer money and not declaring it as income.
* Burning down Hypocrites houses ! Guilty!
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Simply answer **** off u N**** C***, Go and ask a Cop have they ever smoked dope or driven over the speed limit.
Simple answer from a simple mind... :roflmao:
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If you buy as much as you pirate, you are not at all a drain on society. Make a small donation to charity with some of the money you save, it clears my conscience up.
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Yes. I don't want to say "it's software vendors fault", but seriously. I will buy OS licenses almost every time, because I don't want to deal with the hassle of having to use a workaround, or leaving someone's OS unpatched, but:
New computer from Dell factory outlet: $600, +$150 for monitor (includes Win7 Pro license)
compared to
Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro: $389
Office 2010 Pro: $411
(prices from newegg.com)
I'll switch our users over to OpenOffice, before ever paying that sort of ridiculous amount for basic productivity software. :-/
If you are a student(even temporarily) or teacher you can get licenses at Academic Superstore for a lot less. http://www.academicsuperstore.com
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Yep, GPL is still a copyright. I use free, but copyrighted, software all the time.
As for commercial software... Very rarely would I pirate, anymore. I suppose there are probably one or two things on my home system, but I try to use properly licensed commercial software when I have to. (Usually only when a decent GPL version doesn't exist.)
I buy all my modern software but most of the old games and stuff from platforms I emulate isn't really readily available new anymore. Have you noticed that sometimes used software isn't legal to sell to another user.
The only time I've stretched the rules in modern times is when I buy a piece of software that I only use one place at a time but want it on two machines and that's rare.
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I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot poll!
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I buy all my modern software but most of the old games and stuff from platforms I emulate isn't really readily available new anymore. Have you noticed that sometimes used software isn't legal to sell to another user.
Well, that is a different situation, really. I mean, just emulating the platform probably isn't exactly legal in the US. Let alone negotiating licenses for stuff that has no clear owner, anymore.
I was going more by the spirit of "Current software versions on a current primary work system."
If you were to go through my entire collection of software and data dating back almost 30 years during which time I was various levels of student and/or starving, it would be a very different story. :lol:
The only time I've stretched the rules in modern times is when I buy a piece of software that I only use one place at a time but want it on two machines and that's rare.
Yeah, that is a sticky one, isn't it? The one or two copies over license for convenience of having it in two places not to be concurrently used. BSA would call it a problem. Me, probably not so much.
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And for those who pirate software that is still available "through legal channels" .....Do you have any reservations about shoplifting (other than getting caught)?
I tend to wait outside the stores mugging people as they leave with their newly bought software, this way the vendors still get paid.
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OSX Snow Leopard on iMac = Original
Windows 7 = Pirated
Amiga OS3.9 = Original
Windows 7 on netbook = Original
Windows XP on Laptop = Original
OSX Tiger on iBook = Pirated
85% of my Xbox 360 games = Pirated
99% of my Amiga games = Pirated
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I can't remember the last time I needed a piece of software that was not GPL or a similar license. Just say no to proprietary software. I did buy copies of Prey, Quake 4 and Quakewars as I like to support linux developers buttheres almost always a better, free alternative
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And for those who pirate software that is still available "through legal channels" .....Do you have any reservations about shoplifting (other than getting caught)?
At bookstores and newsstands, do you read passages from books, newspapers, or magazines before paying for them? Do you take photographs at modern art museums? Copyright infringement and unlicensed use are not the same as shoplifting, which involves personal property.
EDIT: Re: the poll, it's complicated. Since ownership of licensed software is never actually transferred to the end user, an end user can never own a copy of licensed software. Do I use software I haven't paid for? Yes, I use software daily at work that my employer purchased.
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I guess so, whdload games. But, I did own them at one time? Not an easy question. Back in the day when it actually mattered, I paid for all software.
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Most of the stuff I run is legit, a few games are not, a legacy from times yore when I didn't have so much of the filthy lucre.
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No I don't. No I wouldn't. And seriously I believe it is utterly wrong. This extends to downloading music, videos or any other form of entertainment. It's not just piracy but theft.
Yes, scuzz has it right. Piracy certainly is stealing, hence my allusion to shoplifting earlier. If you walk into Best Buy and steal a box of software off the shelf, Best Buy suffers. If you instead steal software via the internet, the software company suffers. Is there really a fundamental difference?
(EDIT: I am speaking here about software that is still available through legal means, but you choose to steal rather than buy.)
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At bookstores and newsstands, do you read passages from books, newspapers, or magazines before paying for them? Do you take photographs at modern art museums? Copyright infringement and unlicensed use are not the same as shoplifting, which involves personal property.
Wrong. We're talking here about illegally obtaining software for free instead of paying for it. Your first example is akin to trying out software in a store if that store makes such a kiosk available, correct? Now if you copy the entire book and walk out of the store with that copy, your example becomes more relevant.
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Long court fights are definitely in the forecast before the whole digital copyright situation is finally finished. I would say in 3 to 5 years we'll have a better handle on licenses and what they truly mean. And more than likely they will mean different things in Sydney, New York and London...
At bookstores and newsstands, do you read passages from books, newspapers, or magazines before paying for them? Do you take photographs at modern art museums? Copyright infringement and unlicensed use are not the same as shoplifting, which involves personal property.
EDIT: Re: the poll, it's complicated. Since ownership of licensed software is never actually transferred to the end user, an end user can never own a copy of licensed software. Do I use software I haven't paid for? Yes, I use software daily at work that my employer purchased.
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It's nearly impossible to be a software pirate on the Amiga any more. I mean, really. What are folks supposed to do - call up EA and ask them if they can register their copy of Deluxe Paint V, or The Immortal? And in exchange for what, exactly? You're not exactly going to get replacement floppies from them if one tanks.
Conversely, on the PC (speaking strictly for myself) digital copies of games especially through Steam are a real blessing. I have a moderately behind the bleeding edge system, and I'm picky about what I play, so for me there's no problem throwing down $5.00 for, say, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., etc. And the stuff I pay full price for is, to me, completely worth it. Valve's games are friggin' art. It's about rewarding good programmers.
OS wise (and this applies equally to games), you're asking for a punch in the mouth (so to speak) using pirate copies. Okay, fine, what exactly did you install? Was that ISO of XP, Vista or 7 just that OS? Or did you just install a pre-backdoored meeting place for every sort of malware and spyware loose on the internet? Same goes for pirated games; that NoCD crack you're running might have injected something into your system when you ran it the first time - I've seen it over and over.
Finally...speaking, again, strictly for the PC, there's plenty of free apps out there, so much so that honestly there's no reason to pirate other than to say "Ha ha, I got a free copy". GIMP is available for most Win platforms, and for the Mac, as well as Linux builds. There's a character limit to posts so I can't effectively list all of the free CD/DVD tools. And even if you don't want to screw with them Win7 (don't know about Vista) has a fine DVD toolkit built right in.
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Yes, scuzz has it right. Piracy certainly is stealing,
theft (θɛft)
—n
1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession
2. rare something stolen
Copyright infringement != Theft
And perpetuating the lie only serves to warn others of your idiocy.
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Wrong. We're talking here about illegally obtaining software for free instead of paying for it. Your first example is akin to trying out software in a store if that store makes such a kiosk available, correct? Now if you copy the entire book and walk out of the store with that copy, your example becomes more relevant.
Copyright infringement is not the same as theft of personal property. For now, books, videos, and records still count as personal property. It won't be long before publishers start adding license agreements to books, magazines, and audio and video recordings, though, and they'll no longer be personal property. They'll simply be licensed works. This is why you can transfer ownership of a compact disc but not a downloaded MP3.
The most humorous part about the comparison is that it's meant to scare or guilt people into not copying software; however, the punishment for copying software is several orders of magnitude worse than the punishment for shoplifting. If you want a "free" game, your best bet is to shoplift. Worst case, you'll pay a small fine and have a misdemeanor on your record. If you copy the game, however, you could end up paying $150,000 per copy, spend a few years in jail, get gang raped, and lose your right to vote.
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Copyright infringement is not the same as theft of personal property. For now, books, videos, and records still count as personal property. It won't be long before publishers start adding license agreements to books, magazines, and audio and video recordings, though, and they'll no longer be personal property. They'll simply be licensed works. This is why you can transfer ownership of a compact disc but not a downloaded MP3.
The most humorous part about the comparison is that it's meant to scare or guilt people into not copying software; however, the punishment for copying software is several orders of magnitude worse than the punishment for shoplifting. If you want a "free" game, your best bet is to shoplift. Worst case, you'll pay a small fine and have a misdemeanor on your record. If you copy the game, however, you could end up paying $150,000 per copy, spend a few years in jail, get gang raped, and lose your right to vote.
Here, in Chile if you are caught shoplifting goods for under 30 dollars, they cannot send you to jail/fine you/put a misdemeanor on your record, they just make you return those goods. So yes, the best bet is to shoplift :)
Software copying, on the other hand, is strictly fined and legally prosecuted.
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Copyright infringement is not the same as theft of personal property. For now, books, videos, and records still count as personal property. It won't be long before publishers start adding license agreements to books, magazines, and audio and video recordings, though, and they'll no longer be personal property. They'll simply be licensed works. This is why you can transfer ownership of a compact disc but not a downloaded MP3.
The most humorous part about the comparison is that it's meant to scare or guilt people into not copying software; however, the punishment for copying software is several orders of magnitude worse than the punishment for shoplifting. If you want a "free" game, your best bet is to shoplift. Worst case, you'll pay a small fine and have a misdemeanor on your record. If you copy the game, however, you could end up paying $150,000 per copy, spend a few years in jail, get gang raped, and lose your right to vote.
its absurd but its true
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DVDFab is using the ffmpeg library without proper compliance with the ffmpeg license.
Issue 382: DVDFab Decrypter Platinum fails to provide source and licensing information - FFmpeg issue tracker
https://roundup.ffmpeg.org/issue382
I have had multiple copies of Miami running -- I owned a single key, but was unable to purchase new keys. Recently I picked up a machine with MiamiDX on it and use it now, instead, on my 4000D. I have Miami still running on an A500+ and my A1200 but will purchase the new TCP/IP stack when it comes available. My A2000 and 3000 run Genesis from their OS3.9 CDs -- all of my installations of which are properly licensed. (Do I want a cookie? No, just fact.)
All of my commercial software installations are legit. I have a Microsoft Action Pack Subscription as a registered partner, so I have 10 copies of each OS, Office, server installations, and a lot of other software. I do my best to maintain proper licensing, but Microsoft does not make it easy (you can get four different answers from four of its own licensing people.)
As for WinZip, why not use 7-Zip?
And I absolutely refuse to accept the notion that past transgressions make present or future admonitions invalid. I pirated the shit out of Commodore 64 software because I was a kid and really had no concept of what copyright protection was about (irrespective of "Don't Copy That Floppy.") I attended a lot of "swap parties" and came home with some really great stuff, and at one time in my life I had access to a network which allowed me to "call out" of nodes in other countries, Germany in particular, to access BBSs for even more goodies.
When I bought my first Amiga in 1992 it came with a collection of pirated games, of which the ones I played and wanted to keep I was able to buy at some point as by this time I had better knowledge and understanding. I even irritated some of my PC compatriots for berating them for pirating games just because "they're too expensive."
Did I do wrong? Absolutely. Have I learned? Most definitely. Do I still have a moral ground upon which to stand? Well, I guess that depends upon someone's own morals. In a way, by finding an obedience to the law I have "found Jesus."
So I suppose someone else's morals may be more concrete and strict, or perhaps relativistic. I cannot repay my youthful transgressions monetarily to those against whom I have trespassed, but I can pay my debt to society by ensuring that my knowledge and understanding of those actions are passed on.
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The most humorous part about the comparison is that it's meant to scare or guilt people into not copying software; however, the punishment for copying software is several orders of magnitude worse than the punishment for shoplifting. If you want a "free" game, your best bet is to shoplift. Worst case, you'll pay a small fine and have a misdemeanor on your record. If you copy the game, however, you could end up paying $150,000 per copy, spend a few years in jail, get gang raped, and lose your right to vote.
I could walk into Best Buy, grab a game from the game aisle, batter clerks on my way out the door, and face less punishment than if I were to download a game. Truly off-balanced, IMHO.
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Finally...speaking, again, strictly for the PC, there's plenty of free apps out there, so much so that honestly there's no reason to pirate other than to say "Ha ha, I got a free copy".
That is something I get tired of myself. There seems to be a social esteem in a statement like, I have the entire $1200 Adobe Creative Suite without paying a dime! As if that is supposed to be impressive. I find the mentality akin to haggling with a prostitute. (Oh, God, I hope that does not start up a whole new discussion:roflmao:) As opposed to to opposite end of the spectrum, using the statement, I use a software suite which cost $1000 to do my work, for esteem bolstering.
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For some time now, I have no copyright violating software at my home.
However I have a few pirated mp3s or DivXes because the law in my country allows downloading pirated works from the internet (except for the said software). I find it quite silly but until someone changes it, I am free to download music and videos (which I'm not actually doing anyway).
After I graduated PG studies on intellectual property, I should not violate the said law. Then, I would turn silly and all my claims too so no more.
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I got as a family gift my first computer (A500) when I was 8 years old. It was dedicated to be used by me and only, since no one else in the family had an interest into computing. Given my age, the luck of interest from my parents to computers and the fact that it was almost impossible to obtain legal apps/games here in Greece, beginning of 1990 to 1995, because simply they didn't exist, I couldn't afford/persuade my parents to buy me any software I wanted to use (first years games, later on apps).
Now, although I have a very big collection, other than wb1.3 disks and 3.9 CD for my sexy A1200 I bought several years later, I regret to say that I don't have almost any legal app.
Early 2000 and on, where I could get money more easier, I tried to buy many games and apps. Unfortunately it was impossible to track down stock legal apps/games on all of the Greek local stores I looked for.
Now, I have my own job for the last 2 years. Being economically independent, means that finally I am buying whatever I want! First thing was to support companies still existing in Amiga market. Bought a Sam and register most of the apps I am able to afford (I don't use any illegal software and I haven't even searched for it). My next step will probably be buying a MacMini and Mos in order to help those chaps too.
On a side note, and I would want some comments from users, from small countries with sporadically developed computing industry, could you find legal apps for your Amiga? Here, as I already told, it was nearly impossible! The stores didn't even brought/import them! Needless to say, that in 2004, when I was still a university student in a small town in North Greece, I couldn't even find commercial games for my Dreamcast and I had to rely on shitty copies when I had the money to obtain the damn games!
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Edit. Didn't realize it was amiga related discussion, pitty...
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For me it depends on the software company involved. If they are a multi-million dollar company like say *cough* Adobe.. I will quite happily look for a torrent much like the next person. If its a small company who charges a reasonable fee for software or asks for donations I am more than likely to part with cash.
I am in fact atm struggling to find a free application for Mac OS X that allows the user to record the screen. I refuse to pay for this privilege as it should be something that comes with the OS. I have come across several applications that love to splatter output on top of the video with words like Demo Version etc.... so annoying.
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Hmm, I replied no. It used to be the case but not anymore. Just using free software (linux) + indie games I actually bought. Dropped emulators as well, so I guess I'm clean.
(It's not true regarding mp3s, although I bought a big % of them)
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I probably have some old copied stuff on some old hdd, but I don't use it. I only use free or purchased software on regular basis. And I don't see that too dogmatic but rather pragmatic (especially in this little market): it is about give and take. For sparse use I think a copy *may* be justifiable. But for intensive use a purchase is mandatory.
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All my Amiga OS's are legal: OS 3.1, 3.5,3.9; Amiga productivity software I use frequently is legal: Cinema 4D, MakeCD, Wordworth 7 Office, Scala DPaint Brilliance PPaint, Ibrowse 2.4, Clarissa
I still have a tonne of other pirated amiga stuff but I hardly use it: Photogenics, ImageFx, MiamiDX
I have NO legal amiga games, but TBH I hardly play them, except for Deluxe Pacman and Deluxe Galaga.
Win XP, Win 7, Office 2003 all legal, but a MS employee gave them to me with licence keys for free.
A copy of Cinema 4d 5 for PC i got off a magazine and I use it a lot more than a pirated copy of C4D v 10. Tons of emulators with pirated roms, but I have the originals (SNES, N64, PSone) as well which I prefer, mostly.
My net and email stuff is on Ubuntu exclusively, and thats all free.
My rule is if i use it regularly I'll buy it.
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Some of those big (meaning expensive) apps are not really for the home user to afford, they're for businesses that charge +$1000 bucks an hour for their services. So you stick in the muds reckon that people should fork out $1500 for a program they may only use for a few hours a month?
For me after being stung by some junk software and of course the constant upgrade cycle, I now download demo or if not available a pirate version to "try before I buy"
Even just recently I bought the digital version of Civ test of time, but 'shock' it's a cut down version (no cinematics, buggy). Instead of waiting for a remedy I just downloaded the pirated disc version. The owner still gets his cut and I have a full bug free version of the game.
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hmmm... and then what Franko, ya gonna turn everyone one in for a reward? :D
Not paying is akin to theft.
Pirating is the act of reproducing, repackaging and distribution of unathorized materials or goods for profit.
DLing a cracked piece of software through a bit torrent is knowingly receiving stolen property. Most of the time the hacked software either does not work properly or is loaded with somekind of virus. Adobe products are way overpriced for the average user to keep forking out big $ for upgrades. Same with the "Professional level" graphics packages. I do like to try the software before laying out a wad of hard earned cash for an over priced program. If it's something that I will use on a daily basis and is worth the investment, it will be purchased through legitimate channels.
I purchased through EBay a copy of a hard to find book on the NewTek Flyer. Only this wasn't an original legit paper copy, but a scanned reproduction on a DVD. Concidering that I hadn't seen the original item come up very often and when it did the seller wanted way too much for it I opted to purchased the bootlegged copy. Still thought it was too much to pay, but I really needed the book. ...and of course, a few weeks later, a decent priced hard copy was listed for less $ what I had payed for the bootlegged version.
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hmmm... and then what Franko, ya gonna turn everyone one in for a reward? :D
Id have to turn myself in first, cos I was the first one to answer with a big fat YES... :)
(Wonder if there's a reward for grassing on myself... Hmmm... ) :)
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I didn't read every post in this thread so shoot me down If this has been asked before but isn't the poll title flawed?
"Do you Currently Use Any Copyrighted Software That Haven't Actually Paid For... "
Most opensource and freeware software is copyrighted but you don't pay for it. And oem os copies are paid for by the oem not you, so technically you are using copyrighted software someone else paid for.
I use emulators for games from the nes to the n64 or so era. Most of the games I own original copies of but some I don't. If there was a way to give the original publisher money for many of these games I probably would.
For a long time I didn't do that, but it's really kinda pointless, not playing a game you have the rom and emulator for simply because it hasn't been sold in 20 years and the publisher has no interest in doing anything with it.
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...there's a few I must admit:(
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The way you worded the poll I had to answer yes. BUT, even though I did'nt pay for a couple of Windows programs I use, they are perfectly legal. They were given to me by some one with enough clout to give away the odd program if they see fit. Chalked off as promotional gift from the publisher.
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That is something I get tired of myself. There seems to be a social esteem in a statement like, I have the entire $1200 Adobe Creative Suite without paying a dime! As if that is supposed to be impressive. I find the mentality akin to haggling with a prostitute. (Oh, God, I hope that does not start up a whole new discussion:roflmao:) As opposed to to opposite end of the spectrum, using the statement, I use a software suite which cost $1000 to do my work, for esteem bolstering.
Yeah, this one kills me too. "Oh man do you want Adobe CS (whatever the current revision # is)?! This costs like $1500 and I just snagged a copy from bittorrent..." So you can what? Put a lens flare on your webpage logo? Maybe do a color gradient?
Again, GIMP is free, and between it and paint.net I'd say 99% of folks don't need much more.
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Well, that is a different situation, really. I mean, just emulating the platform probably isn't exactly legal in the US. Let alone negotiating licenses for stuff that has no clear owner, anymore.
I was going more by the spirit of "Current software versions on a current primary work system."
If you were to go through my entire collection of software and data dating back almost 30 years during which time I was various levels of student and/or starving, it would be a very different story. :lol:
Ah, well - that's different at one point when I was a starving student and college student I couldn't afford to buy all the games I wanted to play. However, now I buy all my software.
I'm sure almost everyone will rarely try a pirate version to make sure the product will do what they want if there is no demo. Everyone? I mean do you spend $600 to find out the product doesn't do what you want?
Yeah, that is a sticky one, isn't it? The one or two copies over license for convenience of having it in two places not to be concurrently used. BSA would call it a problem. Me, probably not so much.
It is sticky. As I said it's rare though but if I really don't use them both at once, I really don't worry about buying two copies. If it's really a big problem then it must be illegal for anyone to use GotoMyPC or Teamviewer, etc and remote control their computers. I mean you are accessing only one copy of the software but in another location. ;^)
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I tend to wait outside the stores mugging people as they leave with their newly bought software, this way the vendors still get paid.
LOL! I about fell outta my chair with that one. They might even get paid twice. ;^)
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"If you want a "free" game, your best bet is to shoplift. Worst case, you'll pay a small fine and have a misdemeanor on your record. If you copy the game, however, you could end up paying $150,000 per copy, spend a few years in jail, get gang raped, and lose your right to vote."
Really? Is there any case where someone copied a single time and had to pay any legal penalty? On the other hand, shoplifting a single time can result in legal action. I think a better comparison would be: the individual copying thousands of items compared with the individual that shoplifted thousands of times. In both cases, the penalties could be quite steep.
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Is there any case where someone copied a single time and had to pay any legal penalty?
Yes, but it's usually done in the form of extortion payments, er, out-of-court settlements. There are thousands of John Doe cases out there where the infringement is limited to a single copy. Most cases are settled out of court.
Let's pretend someone shoplifted 1,000 copies of a $60 Xbox 360 game, and the average fine for shoplifting is $350 (I pulled that out of my ass, but it's a realistic number). Then, let's compare that to seeding a copy to 1,000 leechers:
1,000 * ($60 + $350) = $410,000
1,000 * ($150,000) = $150,000,000
So, it's still a win for shoplifting. (Anyone caught shoplifting 1,000 times is more likely to receive psychiatric counseling than jail time.)
If you happened to steal 1,000 copies in one go, it's not shoplifting. The actual crime depends on the act itself, whether breaking and entering was involved, whether there was the threat of harm, whether weapons were used, whether the target was a protected class, whether it could be considered a hate crime, etc.
The law is complicated, obviously, and any comparison between theft and copyright infringement is both silly and insulting.
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I'm typing this through Opera, which is free of charge, but copyrighted. Does that count? :P
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I did answer yes as I did install WinXP and MS Office with illegal keys in VirtualBox. I bought this computer with Windows and MS Office installed from my employer and I should have a license via my employer. Don't know if it is allowed to run in virtualisation though.
Have lot's of cracked and copied 880K amiga disks, don't use it anymore though, My amiga OSes (3.0, 3.1, 3.5, 3.9, Intent based AmigaOS SDK and 4.0) and software I use is fully licensed.
greets,
Staf.
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I did answer yes as I did install WinXP and MS Office with illegal keys in VirtualBox. I bought this computer with Windows and MS Office installed from my employer and I should have a license via my employer. Don't know if it is allowed to run in virtualisation though.
If they're OEM licenses, they're tied to the hardware and must be transferred. If they're retail licenses, they can optionally be transferred. If they're volume licenses, they cannot be transferred.
Re: virtualization, it depends on the license. The text of all of Microsoft's licenses is available on their web site.
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If the software is old, and no longer made available, like Amiga software then what are you supposed to do? Forget about it, delete ALL ADFs on your machine and never ever play again?
If people didn't pirate on a massive scale then the pirate bay founders wouldn't be multimillionaires ;)
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"If you want a "free" game, your best bet is to shoplift. Worst case, you'll pay a small fine and have a misdemeanor on your record. If you copy the game, however, you could end up paying $150,000 per copy, spend a few years in jail, get gang raped, and lose your right to vote."
Really? Is there any case where someone copied a single time and had to pay any legal penalty? On the other hand, shoplifting a single time can result in legal action. I think a better comparison would be: the individual copying thousands of items compared with the individual that shoplifted thousands of times. In both cases, the penalties could be quite steep.
What about the kid that copied Super MArio Galaxy and go fined half a mill
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Yeah, this one kills me too. "Oh man do you want Adobe CS (whatever the current revision # is)?! This costs like $1500 and I just snagged a copy from bittorrent..." So you can what? Put a lens flare on your webpage logo? Maybe do a color gradient?
Again, GIMP is free, and between it and paint.net I'd say 99% of folks don't need much more.
Its why i still use Cinema 4D v 5 on PC even though I have Cinema 4D v10. I took one look at the interface and realised i could do what I wanted quicker with V5. Sure v10 has a gazillion more features, but unless you're a professional animator working with James Cameron how many of those will you use and how long will it take to learn to use them well?
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I could walk into Best Buy, grab a game from the game aisle, batter clerks on my way out the door, and face less punishment than if I were to download a game. Truly off-balanced, IMHO.
The DMCA was the best legislation money could buy.
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Fats said:
I bought this computer with Windows and MS Office installed from my employer and I should have a license via my employer.
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Nah, if you bought a computer and it happened to have some software on its not down to you transfer the license. After all its still licensed and paid for, just in someone else's name. Its down to the person whose name it is licensed to - to report the license code/key as expired to the software vendor so the vendor can de-activate the software. And then if the new computer owner wants to continue using the software they then can buy a new license.
(In an ideal world)
Just like if I sold a car to someone else in the UK, I wouldn't just give them the car and the plate, I would tell the licensing authority (in this case the DVLA) that I no longer own (licensed to drive) this car.
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I clicked NO.
I may have some really old software that came with machines I bought but 99% of the software I use I paid for. I would also like to add that 90% of the software I bought was defective if you compared the marketing hype to what it actually did and 5% of the remaining 10% became unuseable as the market died.
I even learned the hardway that some software agreements were ignored by the vendors themselves.
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And for those who pirate software that is still available "through legal channels" .....Do you have any reservations about shoplifting (other than getting caught)?
What is still available and where would one buy it?
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Not paying is akin to theft.
No it isn't. Theft has a very specific definition in law.
Pirating is the act of reproducing, repackaging and distribution of unathorized materials or goods for profit.
Maybe once, but the requirement for profit is no longer valid. Not in the US or UK. YMMV outside of those two however.
DLing a cracked piece of software through a bit torrent is knowingly receiving stolen property.
No, it isn't. That would be copyright infringement.
Interesting point: When I clicked on the pole I selected no, as at the time I had not one piece of software I hadn't paid for either directly or indirectly.
However today my copy of Ubuntu 10.04 LTS came courtesy of Shipit. I didn't pay a penny for it, not even the shipping. So were I to vote I would now have to select yes.
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Hmm... now don't take this the wrong way you 25 folk who so far have answerd NO... :)
But I'm just a tiny wee bit sceptical that there are 25 Mother Teresa's out their that don't even have the tiniest little bit of software somewhere on their systems that they have erm... lets say forgotten about, that may indeed be not quite legally owned... ;)
I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but lets just say I have never met anyone in real life who can actually claim this... :)
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brrr got storm here what my irish grandfathersaid about the home country
3 months winter 9 months bad weather hehe
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yes umm yes
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Hmm... now don't take this the wrong way you 25 folk who so far have answerd NO... :)
But I'm just a tiny wee bit sceptical that there are 25 Mother Teresa's out their that don't even have the tiniest little bit of software somewhere on their systems that they have erm... lets say forgotten about, that may indeed be not quite legally owned... ;)
I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but lets just say I have never met anyone in real life who can actually claim this... :)
the wife and I made 50k a year during the 90's. Money was not a problem.
I've bought 1000's of programs, hardware and systems.
I've been known to claim the real pirates are the people who make false claims about their software and hardware.
I could make a long list of deceptive advertisers and just flat out lies.
The last software I bought was OS 3.5 and it was #1 in BS advertising.
When I went public about it, I was called a pirate by some moron named Fleecy.
I'm no saint, I have used "pirated" software to look at programs to see if they are intuitive. I bought Brilliance because after I played with the cracked version I realized what a great program it was. I would not have bought the dongled version because TV Paint is the only Dongle I want to deal with.
I know there is a later version of TV paint but it is not as good as my 2.0.2 version in my opinion so I deal with a dongle in the 2nd mouse port.
I own a lot of registered (as in paid for it shareware).
It says right on the screen I bought it.
80% of the software I bought I no longer use or even have.
The good software I sold, the crap like Imagine 2.0 I tossed in the trash.
80% of the software on my computer I can't figure out so I never upgraded it.
Vendors always blame pirates when they don't get 90% upgrades but from my experience the manuals assume your a programmer and believe me, I'm as stupid
as they come when it comes to computers.
CLI I know just enough to do assigns properly and it took me 2 years to learn that.
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But I'm just a tiny wee bit sceptical that there are 25 Mother Teresa's out their that don't even have the tiniest little bit of software somewhere on their systems that they have erm... lets say forgotten about, that may indeed be not quite legally owned... ;)
I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but lets just say I have never met anyone in real life who can actually claim this... :)
I suppose that since I no longer use DVD Fab, my last use being well over a year ago, and the systems that are running the over-stretched Miami keys are in the middle of hardware refurbishing which runs like a highway project (you know, has been under construction for as long as we can remember with no real goal in sight,) then I could legitimately claim "no."
Pleased to meet you.
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Hmm... now don't take this the wrong way you 25 folk who so far have answerd NO... :)
But you're about to imply that there is absolutely no way that we could be running legally clean systems. That we're lying.
It's called open source software, you might want to look into it.
But I'm just a tiny wee bit sceptical that there are 25 Mother Teresa's out their that don't even have the tiniest little bit of software somewhere on their systems that they have erm... lets say forgotten about, that may indeed be not quite legally owned... ;)
GTFO.
Read and understand muppet: Every piece of software on this system is completely legitimate. I have a valid licence for all of it. Thanks to the fact I donated toward my distro of choice, I could also select "no" from the list.
That I would have to have changed my answer as of yesterday, does not change the fact that there is no illegal software on this system. All it means is that I got a copy of Ubuntu from their own shipit service.
I'll also have to side with Karlos on this with regard the wording on the questions. They do imply that by saying yes you're admitting to piracy.
I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but lets just say I have never met anyone in real life who can actually claim this... :)
"I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but you're lying."
Again, GTFO.
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Hmm... now don't take this the wrong way you 25 folk who so far have answerd NO... :)
But I'm just a tiny wee bit sceptical that there are 25 Mother Teresa's out their that don't even have the tiniest little bit of software somewhere on their systems that they have erm... lets say forgotten about, that may indeed be not quite legally owned... ;)
I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but lets just say I have never met anyone in real life who can actually claim this... :)
They speak the truth. However a lot of that group lead pretty dull mundane lives.
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They speak the truth. However a lot of that group lead pretty dull mundane lives.
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But you're about to imply that there is absolutely no way that we could be running legally clean systems. That we're lying.
It's called open source software, you might want to look into it.
GTFO.
Read and understand muppet: Every piece of software on this system is completely legitimate. I have a valid licence for all of it. Thanks to the fact I donated toward my distro of choice, I could also select "no" from the list.
That I would have to have changed my answer as of yesterday, does not change the fact that there is no illegal software on this system. All it means is that I got a copy of Ubuntu from their own shipit service.
I'll also have to side with Karlos on this with regard the wording on the questions. They do imply that by saying yes you're admitting to piracy.
"I'm not for one moment doubting your honesty, but you're lying."
Again, GTFO.
My, My, aren't some folk a little bit touchy on this subject eh, the_leander ... :)
I never used the word 'lying' you only read into my post what you believe it said, it's not my fault the you can't understand what a muppet like me is saying. :)
The original question has nothing to do with implying that anyone is a pirate, it was merely asking if you have or use a piece of software on your system that you didn't actually pay for the use of and to use legally you would have had to pay for it.
I was never asking folk if they were a pirate who whether for money or for free churns out copies of software and distribute them or sells them, that is a pirate... :)
But to all you Mother Teresa's out there, please accept the humble apologies of a muppet... :)
I still choose however to remain a teensy weensy lickle bit sceptical... :)
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My, My, aren't some folk a little bit touchy on this subject eh, the_leander ... :)
When you repeatedly imply the same thing over and over, yes it does begin to grate.
I do love the tactic though, the moment you get called on it you can play the innocent.
I never used the word 'lying'
No, you implied it, repeatedly and deliberately.
you only read into my post what you believe it said, it's not my fault the you can't understand what a muppet like me is saying. :)
Ahh so it's everyone else's fault people are reading the clear implications you have made.
Right.
Gotcha.
The original question has nothing to do with implying that anyone is a pirate, it was merely asking if you have or use a piece of software on your system that you didn't actually pay for the use of and to use legally you would have had to pay for it.
Karlos covered this already.
I was never asking folk if they were a pirate who whether for money or for free churns out copies of software and distribute them or sells them, that is a pirate... :)
Piracy does not require a commercial side. Thanks to legislation like the DMCA, all that is done with. There is no distinction in law between someone using bittorrent for the first time and one of the factory ships sat off of the chinese coast mass producing knock offs of your favourite films. Whether or not that is right or fair is irrelevant.
But of course you already knew that.
But to all you Mother Teresa's out there, please accept the humble apologies of a muppet... :)
Careful, your passive aggressive is showing...Mother Teresa (http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/).
I still choose however to remain a teensy weensy lickle bit sceptical... :)
I couldn't give a crap what you believe: DOX or GTFO.
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I couldn't give a crap what you believe: DOX or GTFO.
For someone who doesn't 'give a crap about what I believe' you sure as hell write a lot of long winded crap about it... :roflmao:
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--A complete lack of dox--
Thought so.
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Thought so.
My your quick... :)
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:(
When you can say 'you are' in a sentence 'you're' is correct, 'your' isn't.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
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:(
When you can say 'you are' in a sentence 'you're' is correct, 'your' isn't.
Why thunk your fur the englush leeson... :)
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Well polish me cutlass ar, 'n pass me da rum!
....that's a yes, but to be honest if the software is good enough that I keep going back to it, I'll pay for it at some point. I tend to use pirated stuff for an extended trial mostly.
If no one is left to pay then that's a different matter, it' s a victim-less crime anyway.
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What I find interesting in this thread is the apparent contempt for anyone who would purport to not use any pirated (unpaid-for copyrighted) software. The label of "Mother Teresa" and the claim of a "mundane life" stinks of elitism in the face of a full lack of holier-than-thou from anyone else, which has existed to a large extent in other threads.
While I appreciate Franko for his software contributions to the Amiga community, and I have agreed with some of his positions and comments elsewhere, I find it difficult not to conclude that this thread was an opportunity to exorcise a little butt-hurt over other copyright threads. The implication appears to be that anyone who claims not to pirate is in actuality a rampant pie-rat who is too ashamed, scared, or otherwise unwilling to admit to the practice. The poll and ensuing comments have served to shift the balance of morality away from strict adherence to the habitual violation of copyright. If I am mistaken then I welcome elaboration and offer an apology.
As morals are subjective, the issue will fall into a stalemate as it does in just about every other thread. In the process, however, I find it unnecessary to sling mud at either side and make accusations of anyone's particular mental states or lifestyle.
Having said all that, I stand firm in my assertions: yes I have used pirated software in the past for reasons which vary from the unavailability of a trial installation to political opposition, no I do not currently use software which knowingly violates copyright or licensing, including upstream violations, such as the infractions of DVDFab or the violations of Microsoft, Oracle, Google, et. al. With the availability of alternate software and sources for the various platforms I run -- which include Solaris, Windows, Java, Amiga, TI, Commodore, Atari, Sega, Nintendo, amongst others -- it is highly unlikely that I will find it "necessary" to run illegitimate software again in the future.
This does not mean I am better than anyone else, nor do I stand in judgment of others or their lives. I am simply different than someone who is compelled by whatever motivation to commit acts of piracy. My opinion on the matter stands firm with the law, no matter how obnoxiously complex or ill-conceived because I believe in a system in which we ourselves have the power to make necessary changes. I do not believe that while possessing the power to influence legislation to better serve their wont and desire, "large companies" hold absolute power, which is instead reserved to us, and yet at the same time I do not believe a diametric opposition exists between "us" and "them." But espousing upon that is a topic for another thread on another day.
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@LoadWB
Ere, LoadWB is this your youtube video...
http://www.youtube.com/user/LoadWB
Cos some of the disk's in it look decidedly erm... dodgy...
(interesting video by the way...)
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@LoadWB
Ere, LoadWB is this your youtube video...
http://www.youtube.com/user/LoadWB
No.
Cos some of the disk's in it look decidedly erm... dodgy...
Stipulating truth to your claim, how is it relevant to my points?
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Well if you say no then the relevance to your points don't apply. :)
Reckon what I call humor doesn't seem to travel too well across the pond with some folk. Different outlook on life I suppose. :(
I have read and agree with most of what you have said, but you seem to be taking things I say a wee bit too seriously and personally. I can only apologise here in public to you if think I'm trying to be elitist or holding other folks view in contempt.
I can only say when you read something I have written here try and take it in the sense in which I mean it, which is, always with a touch of humor in it somewhere. :)
Simple thing is where I live and the people I know almost all talk to each other in this manner. If we didn't understand that we mean no harm by what we say, then the population of Scotland would be most likely zero as we would all have murdered each other by now. :)
As I say humor can mean different things to different people, reckon where I come from ours is very different humor and outlook on life to yours. :)
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Well if you say no then the relevance to your points don't apply. :)
Reckon what I call humor doesn't seem to travel too well across the pond with some folk. Different outlook on life I suppose. :(
I have read and agree with most of what you have said, but you seem to be taking things I say a wee bit too seriously and personally. I can only apologise here in public to you if think I'm trying to be elitist or holding other folks view in contempt.
I can only say when you read something I have written here try and take it in the sense in which I mean it, which is, always with a touch of humor in it somewhere. :)
Simple thing is where I live and the people I know almost all talk to each other in this manner. If we didn't understand that we mean no harm by what we say, then the population of Scotland would be most likely zero as we would all have murdered each other by now. :)
As I say humor can mean different things to different people, reckon where I come from ours is very different humor and outlook on life to yours. :)
I suppose so. I have the good fortune of having inherited an appreciation for British humor from my grandmother, who is full-blood Limey, which gives me a little more rounding, I like to think. I think the difference in this case would be the touchiness of the subject, though we may conjecture for a while on whether it should be so or not. The only offense I take to a conversation with certain implications is when said conversation may work to negate any comment made in honesty, whether mine or anyone else's, which was my perception. My apologies are offered in the case the intention was otherwise. Indeed, this is a heated debate, that of piracy and copyright.
Irrespective on whether we agree with each other on the fundamental subject, it would still be my pleasure to order us up a round, after which we could continue to have spirited debate.
Cheers, and I am off to watch my football (REAL football, not what you blokes call soccer :laughing: which may be another touchy subject, yeah?) team not suck just enough to win. *sigh* I am afraid it will be another season like that for us while we attempt to rebuild.
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Reckon what I call humor doesn't seem to travel too well across the pond with some folk.
Being treated with contempt doesn't come off as funny anywhere.
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Linux isn't always as clean you might think.
Last distro I tried installed without a media player. It then gave me the option to download one provided it was for "research purposes".
Music and video player codecs are paid for licensed software. Generally the companies in question don't care about individuals using them but if you're a company expect a letter to turn up from MPEGLA.
Nevertheless, if you have say an MP3 player and didn't pay the fee then you are using unlicensed software. Better then that, some movie codecs actually require payment *per use*.
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Linux isn't always as clean you might think.
Last distro I tried installed without a media player. It then gave me the option to download one provided it was for "research purposes".
Music and video player codecs are paid for licensed software. Generally the companies in question don't care about individuals using them but if you're a company expect a letter to turn up from MPEGLA.
Nevertheless, if you have say an MP3 player and didn't pay the fee then you are using unlicensed software. Better then that, some movie codecs actually require payment *per use*.
I think the difference in that respect is knowingly violating versus incidental violation. For instance, if you are aware that a codec or player is not licensed, then you are knowingly and deliberately violating licensing. However, if you purchase or install a program which contains an impropoerly licensed codec, then as the user you should be indemnified by the software vendor.
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Being compared with Mother Theresa is rather harsh in my view. :)
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While I don't ENTIRELY disagree with the 'incidental violation' argument, I think it is well over used, and tends to be more of a rationalization of why 'my' copyright infringement is ok, while 'your' copyright infringement is 'immoral'.
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Well, the good question there was been differentiate on which systems you have this special "software" Linux, Amiga OS4, Windos, MACOS, etc.
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I suppose so. I have the good fortune of having inherited an appreciation for British humor from my grandmother, who is full-blood Limey, which gives me a little more rounding, I like to think. I think the difference in this case would be the touchiness of the subject, though we may conjecture for a while on whether it should be so or not. The only offense I take to a conversation with certain implications is when said conversation may work to negate any comment made in honesty, whether mine or anyone else's, which was my perception. My apologies are offered in the case the intention was otherwise. Indeed, this is a heated debate, that of piracy and copyright.
Irrespective on whether we agree with each other on the fundamental subject, it would still be my pleasure to order us up a round, after which we could continue to have spirited debate.
Cheers, and I am off to watch my football (REAL football, not what you blokes call soccer :laughing: which may be another touchy subject, yeah?) team not suck just enough to win. *sigh* I am afraid it will be another season like that for us while we attempt to rebuild.
Hi Loadwb, :)
Glad we are able to agree to differ on our points of view, your offer to buy a round is most generous, but you do realize that with me being Scottish this could prove to be quite costly and not very good for the liver as we Scots are a bit partial to anything containing alcohol and don't understand the words 'closing time' or 'last orders at the bar'... :)
As for football, here it's nothing more than a game played by a bunch of overpaid nancy boys, who feign injury when someone steps on their boot laces or knocks their hair out of place, but yes thats another subject... :)
(quick note, it's not wise to call us Scots 'British', thats a very touchy subject... :roflmao:)
Cheers :drink:
Franko
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Just visited my Facebook page and found this post on it from my brother in law in the states, odd coincidence, but seems like piracy/copyright wars, who's right and who's wrong, are being fought all over the place right now... :)
http://torrentfreak.com/4chan-ddos-takes-down-mpaa-and-anti-piracy-websites-100918/
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Well, I guess there aren't many Mech Engineers here who are looking to keep their skills up-to-date then. If there are, then how do you personally afford the four-figure license fees for Ansys, AutoCAD, Soldworks, Pro-Engineer etc to keep your skills up-to-date?
I'm nottalking about using them as productivity tools, just in terms of maintaining familiarity and assimilating new features. And please don't tell me that you work within the demo limitations (eg 100 nodes limit for models) - I mean, really!
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But you're about to imply that there is absolutely no way that we could be running legally clean systems. That we're lying.
It's called open source software, you might want to look into it.
You might be now, but I seriously doubt you NEVER did. And I'm not talking about Ubuntu shipit.
Its not unheard of for games developers to use pirated graphics software to create their games and then bitch about their games being pirated.
I'm with Franko. I refuse to believe that someone has purchased all their software/media new, or paid all their shareware reg fees, in their entire computing history.
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IMO the biggest copyright issue is that of copyrighting human genes. Hospitals have to pay licensing fees for diagnostic tests that have the potential to identify the risk of cancer in an individual, but if the patient won't pay upto $4000 in fees, they won't be told of their risk, and that could adversally effect their health outcome. In Aus there is a major gov't enquiry on if its possibly to copyright genes, most of which have been patentetd by US companies and licensed to local labs.
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IMO the biggest copyright issue is that of copyrighting human genes. Hospitals have to pay licensing fees for diagnostic tests that have the potential to identify the risk of cancer in an individual, but if the patient won't pay upto $4000 in fees, they won't be told of their risk, and that could adversally effect their health outcome. In Aus there is a major gov't enquiry on if its possibly to copyright genes, most of which have been patentetd by US companies and licensed to local labs.
Interesting topic, but surely no one else could claim copyright on an individuals genes as you would be the owner and anyone using your genes would be infringing on your copyrights... could be a whole new thread that one... :)
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I'm with Franko. I refuse to believe that someone has purchased all their software/media new, or paid all their shareware reg fees, in their entire computing history.
Whatever, but this is not what the question in the poll is asking:
Do you Currently Use Any Copyrighted Software That Haven't Actually Paid For...
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Fats said:
I bought this computer with Windows and MS Office installed from my employer and I should have a license via my employer.
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Nah, if you bought a computer and it happened to have some software on its not down to you transfer the license. After all its still licensed and paid for, just in someone else's name.
When my employer sells computers to the employees they reinstall the PCs with Windows and MS Office fully license compliant with MS. MS knows that these PCs are sold to the employees and my employer tells me I should delete the software when I would not be employed there anymore.
I did install Linux on that same machine and am running Windows and MS Office inside VirtualBox and this is probably illegal but frankly I don't give a damn.
For the rest I try to use fully license compliant software; mostly FOSS that is; sometimes just free software; most of the time open source software.
greets,
Staf.
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Interesting topic, but surely no one else could claim copyright on an individuals genes as you would be the owner and anyone using your genes would be infringing on your copyrights... could be a whole new thread that one... :)
Well AFAIK, the genes that code for most (like >99%) of human proteins are identical from person to person. Certain mutations on certain genes cause certain diseases. There are companies that know the presence of which genes cause cancers like breast cancers and bowel cancer, but you have to pay a licensing fee to be told if you have that particular gene sequence. For breast cancer, if a patient wants to know if they have the genetic sequence that has a high probability of causing cancer, the patient has to pay a "licensing fee" of $4000.
In Aus the Court case to make gene patents illegal, centres on the fact that human genes are not "innovations", but rather "discoveries" and therefore not patentable.
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Whatever, but this is not what the question in the poll is asking:
So what does it mean if you have it but don't use it?
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So what does it mean if you have it but don't use it?
If you don't use it, then, logically you can't currently be using it, so the answer would seem to be "no".
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If you don't use it, then, logically you can't currently be using it, so the answer would seem to be "no".
Ere Karlos, don't start bringing logic into this thing, me and logic just don't understand each other... :)
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If you don't use it, then, logically you can't currently be using it, so the answer would seem to be "no".
logically.
But the arguments have taken on an emotive track.
Leander felt he was being treated with "contempt" for not being believed. He expressed some strong emotions, calling Franko a "muppet", (something he regularly resorts to whenever someone doesn't agree with his POV, but never seems to be moderated for.)
Along the same lines was this @LoadWB:What I find interesting in this thread is the apparent contempt for anyone who would purport to not use any pirated (unpaid-for copyrighted) software. The label of "Mother Teresa" and the claim of a "mundane life" stinks of elitism in the face of a full lack of holier-than-thou from anyone else, which has existed to a large extent in other threads.
The problem I have with this is that unless you've NEVER used unpaid/pirated software then it lacks credibility to be so precious ie "Oh yes I USED to have pirated software, but I don't anymore, so now I take deep personal offense that you dare question that I no longer do".
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The problem I have with this is that unless you've NEVER used unpaid/pirated software then it lacks credibility to be so precious ie "Oh yes I USED to have pirated software, but I don't anymore, so now I take deep personal offense that you dare question that I no longer do".
I think a person that has sincerely reformed themselves has every right to be offended at having their sincerity questioned on the basis of their previous behaviour.
Would you think it fair to exhibit the same brand of cynicism towards someone claiming to be teetotal and "never touching a drop" on the basis of their previous alcoholism?
"Oh come on, you must have a wee tipple every now and again! You used to sink bottles of the stuff!"
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I think a person that has sincerely reformed themselves has every right to be offended at having their sincerity questioned on the basis of their previous behaviour.
Would you think it fair to exhibit the same brand of cynicism towards someone claiming to be teetotal and "never touching a drop" on the basis of their previous alcoholism?
"Oh come on, you must have a wee tipple every now and again! You used to sink bottles of the stuff!"
No but if it were me I wouldn't be incredulous about it and would understand why someone might have their doubts.
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Well, I guess there aren't many Mech Engineers here who are looking to keep their skills up-to-date then. If there are, then how do you personally afford the four-figure license fees for Ansys, AutoCAD, Soldworks, Pro-Engineer etc to keep your skills up-to-date?
I'm nottalking about using them as productivity tools, just in terms of maintaining familiarity and assimilating new features. And please don't tell me that you work within the demo limitations (eg 100 nodes limit for models) - I mean, really!
I am not sure if it is still doing so, but for a while during the start of the recession AutoDesk was offering a 60- or 90-day license for engineers who found themselves without a job. I believe DataCAD was doing the same, but I cannot speak for the others. Not sure how much that helps at this point considering how long and drawn out the economic downturn has been or will continue to be.
As well, if while during your down-time you enroll in a local community college or university to take some engineering or architectural classes, AutoDesk offers either reduced or free licensing for students. I have been back taking a couple of classes a semester under a new program to keep me busy during my slow times. When all is over, I will be much more marketable than I am now.
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You might be now, but I seriously doubt you NEVER did. And I'm not talking about Ubuntu shipit.
Oh lookit, the goalposts are being moved!
He expressed some strong emotions, calling Franko a "muppet", (something he regularly resorts to whenever someone doesn't agree with his POV, but never seems to be moderated for.)
Mmmm, what delicious butthurt you have there.
Perhaps you should fill out the relevant form. I'm sure I've posted it for you previously if you're that bothered.
No but if it were me I wouldn't be incredulous about it and would understand why someone might have their doubts.
Of course you would, I believe you, thousands wouldn't.
What's that, you don't like being called a liar either? No wai!
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calling Franko a "muppet", (something he regularly resorts to whenever someone doesn't agree with his POV, but never seems to be moderated for.)
Subjective, really. Muppet is pretty innocuous. If somebody called me a muppet, I'd be pretty unfazed. Personal insults are a rum do, but you have to keep a sense of scale.
When stuff gets nasty and people get upset, then moderation comes into play. You'd all be complaining about censorship like it was going out of fashion if we cracked down on the slightest aggravated exchange.
If one takes offence at being called a muppet by a complete stranger for suggesting it is unbelievable that someone actually uses a "clean" system, then they should also realise that it is equally (if not a lot more) insulting to have your honesty questioned by a complete stranger.
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I have machines loaded with copyrighted stuff I never paid for, I can barely think of any software on them that is not copyrighted, so I answered "yes".
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Oh lookit, the goalposts are being moved!
Mmmm, what delicious butthurt you have there.
You use "butthurt" a lot in your posts. Is there something that you want to bring out into the open? C'mon your secret will be safe here amongst friend..you might even feel better letting it out in the open.
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I, personally, would take pride in being called a muppet, especially given my current hairstyle.
MUPPET PRIDE!@!
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Subjective, really. Muppet is pretty innocuous. If somebody called me a muppet, I'd be pretty unfazed. Personal insults are a rum do, but you have to keep a sense of scale.
OK. so the standard is YOUR subjective opinion? And its not a one off.
If one takes offence at being called a muppet by a complete stranger for suggesting it is unbelievable that someone actually uses a "clean" system, then they should also realise that it is equally (if not a lot more) insulting to have your honesty questioned by a complete stranger.
if that person has NEVER used pirated software EVER, yeah thats understandable. But not if they say "I've used software illegally, but as eg of a few months ago", I don't. But then to start jumping up and down and throwing insults when some reasonable doubt is expressed is simply over the top. Maybe a case of "me thinks he doth protest too much"
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most ppl have used an illeagle copy of windows weather they realise it or not.
it's hard to feel sorry for M$ about this tho.
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You use "butthurt" a lot in your posts.
Only because people like you seem to suffer from it so often.
OK. so the standard is YOUR subjective opinion? And its not a one off.
As someone who has had to do moderation for webstes I'll let you in on something: Much of your duties depend on subjective opinion. Sure, there are TOS, but that can only help you so far. There are simply too many subtle and varied situations that one simply couldn't write rules for all of them.
And it isn't just Karlos opinion, but the collective opinion of all the mods who have viewed my posts.
if that person has NEVER used pirated software EVER
Where have I, or anyone else said that?
Again with moving of goalposts!
,Maybe a case of "me thinks he doth protest too much"
Heh, so your response to being shot down for bawwwing about the term muppet is to pick up Franko's failbatton and start calling people liars.
Keep flapping.
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Well, the question was phrased this way "Do you **Currently** Use". I have used pirated pieces of software from 93 to very recently. I don't feel the need anymore (Ubuntu + indie games, I have all I need + I donate to Gnome / KDE / inkscape / gimp to support the development).
I am just fully satisfied now with OSS / indie software.
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Well, the results are in... :)
27.50% are nice, kind, honest & genuine folks who wouldn't do anything wrong... :angel: :rolleyes:
5.00% are claiming their right's not to incriminate themselves... :sealed: :nervous:
70.00% are (me included) still waving the Jolly Roger and not giving a s**t about it.. :swords: :roflmao:
0.83% is claiming all of the above and is totally nuts.... :mickeymouse:
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@Franko
Oi, I resemble that remark!
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70.00% are (me included) still waving the Jolly Roger and not giving a s**t about it.. :swords: :roflmao:
What does running copyrighted software you never paid for have to do with piracy anyways?
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What does running copyrighted software you never paid for have to do with piracy anyways?
As Aleksandr Orlov (http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/home)said, Simples... :)
If you were to ask the software companies they would claim that folk who use copyrighted software that they never paid for are, even if they are not the ones pirating it , that the pirates would have no one to sell to or even give away said software to... thus No end users, No pirates... Simples :)
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If you were to ask the software companies they would claim that folk who use copyrighted software that they never paid for are, even if they are not the ones pirating it , that the pirates would have no one to sell to or even give away said software to... thus No end users, No pirates... Simples :)
So all the copyrighted stuff on aminet... piracy? This poll is broken by design.
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So all the copyrighted stuff on aminet... piracy? This poll is broken by design.
Well unless the copyright owners haven't given permission to have their stuff freely distributed... then technically YES... :)
This poll is broken by design.
Drat... rumbled... :(