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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 15574 times)

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Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2020, 09:26:05 PM »
You're not talking about complexity, you're talking about variety. Are you arguing we need to kill AROS 68k and Cloanto's distributions?
No, complexity. Really. How complex does it become to keep a software and hardware working in an unstable environment, and who would be willing to write software against a moving target, and design hardware for it?

You're dodging the actual question. Let's ignore the lack of Reaction and say 3.9 and 3.1.4 are the same - that still leaves Amiga OS 3.1.4, AmigaOS 3.X, AfA OS 4, AROS 68k and BoingBag 4 plus the individual patches and libraries released on the Net. The existence of all these branches did not stop you from releasing 3.1.4, did it? So where's the limit before we loose you? Five, six, seven branches?
3.1 through 3.1.4.1 have the same interfaces. 3.x has the same interfaces than 3.9, or sort of, but it is a pointless product that is behind 3.1.4 in every aspect. Os 4 is a different market (PPC) I do not mind. AfA 4.x I consider a dead horse, and fixes from BB4 were integrated into 3.1.4 as far as possible, I hope. 3.1.4 was the attempt to collect all the fixes, and form a new stable ground, so no, it did not stop anyone, but getting rid of it was part of the motivation.

I'm saying it at least gives us a chance of fixing these problems, while what you are doing right now just feeds the lawyers and is guaranteed to create tons more problems when (not if) Hyperion collapses.
It may fix some things, at the expense of creating a lot of other problems, and ignoring some problems that remain unfixed, and become unfixable on the way.

Right now, Ben is controlling development - and you prefer that to open source.
Well, I would be hoping that there would be somewhat more control in the technical direction level, and less control on the IP level, and I do not prefer "open source development", but "a more transparent development", so that is not quite the same.

So as far as this discussion is concerned you are pro Ben. Which means you should be able to explain why Ben's control over your project doesn't mean it's doomed.
No, the world is not black and white. Meaning I'm against open source does not mean I'm for Ben, that is just naive. Cloanto, however, is either acting foolish, or is trying to fool you. If they really want to go where they claim, they are destroying their product and their market, just for the attempt at looking nice.
 
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Offline cgutjahr

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2020, 10:37:10 PM »
Cloanto, however
For somebody who's constantly complaining about trolling you sure love to comment on other people's intention, work or competence. Any mud fests with Gunnar recently? Or public declarations that Cloanto is distributing illegal versions of P96?

Not sure why you keep referring to Cloanto, I'm just discussing a general concept.

AfA 4.x I consider a dead horse
The latest AfA release is younger than your latest release, IIRC. That plus AROS 68k leaves two branches, yes? Plus 3.X from Cloanto. So you're fine with two or three  branches? How many is too much?

No, the world is not black and white. Meaning I'm against open source does not mean I'm for Ben, that is just naive.
You're creating valueable IP for Ben that can be held hostage, just like OS4 has been held hostage for a decade. You're creating revenue for Ben. Given the choice to open source or stay with Ben, you'd stay with Ben. Hence, in the context of this discussion you're pro Ben.

Explain to me how giving 3.1.4 for free to Hyperion makes it more likely that some sort of comittee of skilled benefactors will get a say in what's going to happen? Because it worked so well for OS4?
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2020, 10:45:56 PM »
Thomas why on earth would a person with sane minds change existing APIs all the time just for fun and to make software developers unhappy? Even open source developers are normal people (to a certain degree ;) )

You cannot say open source is always better, the same is true for closed source. But in a small market where nobody can really make money and investing money is not reallly attractive only open source guarantees existence of a platform. If your product depends on the interest of one person and this person f.e. looses interest the product vanishes. That already happened with lots of amiga software and that can happen to the OS of course too.

It is not relevant if you are happy about the Aros 68k branch, it exists and will continue to exist with Vampire as main hardware target (and UAE).

BTW standards are set by the leader.., that can be the official version but must not. Regarding forking... we are talking about a theoretical danger here. You must find developers with both skills and willingness to invest time in it. A rare requirement. I do not expect much forks "if" AmigaOS would be open source.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:35:43 PM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2020, 11:15:55 PM »
The latest AfA release is from 2016. The latest AmigaOS update is from 2019.
Anyway AFA is not an OS but a set of patches that requires an unnderlying OS.

Anyway, AROS can continue being a reduction cost measure for the Vampire V4 project, or for whatever emulator. AROS is not a issue.
They can, and probably will do whatever they please. They can keep changing ABIs as much as they wish to. It is their project and goals, which are quite different.
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2020, 11:21:36 PM »
There is no change of ABI in AROS/68k, duh.

It’s as if you don’t know the difference between ABI and API...
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2020, 11:23:09 PM »
+1

Aros 68k never had the problems f.e. X86 had

it was always the same ABI
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:30:18 PM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2020, 11:24:52 PM »
at the moment the main activity is to make it as compatible to 3.1 as possible (f.e. changes in keymaps and datatypes at the moment)

and the API always was very compatible (obvious if you run amiga software on it)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:26:07 PM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2020, 11:25:34 PM »
I am talking about AROS in general.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2020, 11:27:13 PM »
and I never cared about the other platforms

I was always sceptical about "NG" running on different hardware and only interested in 68k
 

Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2020, 11:53:15 PM »
at the moment the main activity is to make it as compatible to 3.1 as possible (f.e. changes in keymaps and datatypes at the moment)

After 25 years of development it is still not a full implementation of 3.1.

So can we expect to see 3.2 support by the year 2045?
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2020, 11:54:16 PM »
very funny

and when do we see new features in AmigaOS a OS today needs in it? In 2100? ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:55:22 PM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2020, 11:56:12 PM »
I wish I was joking, I'm actually being serious though. Extrapolating from past development, that seems about the right timeframe.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2020, 11:56:58 PM »
yes...

and I am serious about 2100 too
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2020, 12:04:41 AM »
BTW why do you think Aros 68k developers have the desire to imitate the features of 3.2 (like Reaction)

both platforms are in competition in future and users will decide what they want to use (depending of course on the hardware)
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2020, 12:19:58 AM »
BTW why do you think Aros 68k developers have the desire to imitate the features of 3.2 (like Reaction)

both platforms are in competition in future and users will decide what they want to use (depending of course on the hardware)

In competiton? How?

AROS is more platform agnostic, and it is one of its major advantages as an OS. I don't see it as competition.