Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: AmigaOS 68k development - components, critics, bugs, work-arounds, tips&tricks  (Read 3532 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Gulliver

@paul1981

You know, you can always boot from RAD and make it play your way to achieve your desired goal.
 

Offline kolla

Thus, I wonder, why do you want to hide the modules from the user by placing them into a non-accessible spot?
Funny you should ask - that is exactly what Apple did, and Compaq did the same with their BIOS. Windows10 today typically has at least one hidden partition. You now, those closed doors decisions that were made for very good reasons by technical competent people without involving users? It's lovely when you can cherrypick when you wish to compare to "the industry".
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline Minuous

If Microsoft were technically competent their OS would not be gigabytes in size and require gigahertz of CPU power to run adequately. And many of their decisions are user-hostile, driven by non-technical reasons. Windows 10 is not something that any OS should strive to be like.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Funny you should ask - that is exactly what Apple did, and Compaq did the same with their BIOS. Windows10 today typically has at least one hidden partition. You now, those closed doors decisions that were made for very good reasons by technical competent people without involving users? It's lovely when you can cherrypick when you wish to compare to "the industry".
Though we are talking here AmgiaOs and neither Windows nor ios. And your point for doing the same on the Amiga is?

Offline kolla

Funny you should ask - that is exactly what Apple did, and Compaq did the same with their BIOS. Windows10 today typically has at least one hidden partition. You now, those closed doors decisions that were made for very good reasons by technical competent people without involving users? It's lovely when you can cherrypick when you wish to compare to "the industry".
Though we are talking here AmgiaOs and neither Windows nor ios.

I appreciate your change of mind regarding the fact that we are talking about AmigaOS and neither Windows nor iOS.

If Microsoft develops windows, those decisions are also made behind closed doors. If Apple develops ios, those decisions are also made behind closed doors. For good reason - such discussions are made between developers that understand the technical background, and that are willing to work to make something happen.

Quote
And your point for doing the same on the Amiga is?
It is not a point for me, I am not a "most user".
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline kolla

It is not a point for me, I am not a "most user".

I can elaborate on this. On certain systems I have (CD32s for example), it is most convenient to keep using the OS 3.1 kickstart, and hence also keep a very small FFS partition at the start of the disk, with only BootCtrl, LoadModule and kickstart modules. On cold boot, this is the boot partition, then BootCtrl is used to deactivates this boot partition (temporary as from early-startup), LoadModule loads all relevant updates and system resets, using new scsi.device, booting into the "real" OS partition which is larger and has fancy long filenames FFS etc.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline Thomas Richter

I can elaborate on this. On certain systems I have (CD32s for example), it is most convenient to keep using the OS 3.1 kickstart, and hence also keep a very small FFS partition at the start of the disk, with only BootCtrl, LoadModule and kickstart modules. On cold boot, this is the boot partition, then BootCtrl is used to deactivates this boot partition (temporary as from early-startup), LoadModule loads all relevant updates and system resets, using new scsi.device, booting into the "real" OS partition which is larger and has fancy long filenames FFS etc.
And what has all of this to do with the RDB? Right, nothing.

Offline Thomas Richter

It is not a point for me, I am not a "most user".
Then why coming up with a nonsense argument in first place? Microsoft and Apple surely had their reasons - I do not mind, it is not my problem. Booting the Amiga works differently, so there are different reasons for boot mechanisms.

Offline kolla

I didn’t mention RDB at all, I just mentioned that having a dedicated “magic” partition for rom updates can be useful also on Amiga. And nothing prevents anyone from doing it already. Consider this as sorting under “tips & tricks” as well as “work-arounds” in the topic of this thread.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline F0LLETT

What is your goal with these essay long rants here Thomas, closing down this thread? I was requested to open my own thread about my issues, so I did, only to find it littered within a few hours about rather irrelevant discussions about booting from CD drives and 1MB kickstart roms...

It is perfectly doable to fit variants of workbench.library and icon.library in a 512kB rom. Note that I didn’t argue for 1MB rom, I just find some of your arguments a bit far fetched.

Sorry didn't realise you wanted this as your own personal thread. Thought it was open to any one to mention stuff, as the title suggests.
Quote from: Hungry Horace
Resolute and Industrious Grand ruler of the yellow people and the Ultimate Amiga Empire
Ultimate Amiga Network (Home of SONY PSP Amiga Emulator and AMOS Factory)

Quote from:  He who shall not be named
"Chris is that you!!!"
My all time favorite quote.
 

Offline kolla

Sorry didn't realise you wanted this as your own personal thread. Thought it was open to any one to mention stuff, as the title suggests.

It is, I am not stopping anyone.
I just find the discussions about booting from CD drives (which you brought up) and 1MB kickstart (which Thomas brought up) rather irrelevant.
But please go ahead, continue, ad nauseam if you like.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline paul1981

Sorry, I still fail to see how all this is related to the RDB? It is really the wrong place to store arbitrary binary data. To load data from another harddisk, you only need a file system, and *that* comes from the RDB. "Reserved blocks" are not really "reserved" for that - it is just a left-over of the two-blocks "boot block" of floppies.

Thus, I wonder, why do you want to hide the modules from the user by placing them into a non-accessible spot?

Quote from: paul1981 link=topic=74358.msg846139#msg8461
Or, preferably perhaps, it could do all the same as above, but forget the flag, and just search for the modules from the disk with the highest boot priority (modules could even be searched for from floppy if a devs/modules drawer is found). Obviously , if no disk is inserted in DF0 it will next look in DH0 devs/modules (providing that DH0 has the next highest boot priority).

If, for some reason someone connects an additional hard disk or has an additional partition/volume with a higher priority and they don't want the modules loaded from there (ie. it has the devs/modules directory also), then there could be a little config file in devs/modules of the unwanted volume which could be read before the modules are loaded which simply has the the real volume/partition from which you want the modules to actually be loaded from - and this would also be reflected in bootmenu). Or, I suppose temporary control instead could be had from within the bootmenu if such a problem arises.

All of this I mention because I was thinking of the system being up-to-date and ready, ready even from cold booting into a floppy disk (or any other boot device).

I don't want to hide anything, forget the RDB and flag... as I soon stated above it's not actually needed for this, I just thought this would be a solution for cold booting into any device, with updates - which presently can't be done.  To elaborate a little, this could be a USB thumb drive or SD card or external cd-rom, or even a remote network drive. It opens up a few possibilities. Probably overkill for a small user-base hobby-OS.  :P
 

Offline paul1981

@paul1981

You know, you can always boot from RAD and make it play your way to achieve your desired goal.

I know, that's why I love AmigaOS.   :)
 

Offline Thomas Richter

I don't want to hide anything, forget the RDB and flag... as I soon stated above it's not actually needed for this, I just thought this would be a solution for cold booting into any device, with updates - which presently can't be done.
If I recall correctly (I am currently away from home), it can certainly be done. The "search the fitting module function" of System-Startup is the same function that is also used for "wbfind", which is scanning for the workbench.library and the icon.library. Thus, it is sufficient to have the modules on a mounted volume.
 

Offline kolla

Since this turned out to be just as boring and tedious as other threads on OS 3.1.4/3.2, perhaps I can toss in random bugs...

I noticed that a clipboard bug was discovered and reported elsewhere - good! I've had occasional crashes when pasting into KingCON - I realised that this one would be utterly pointless to report, so I am glad it was discovered elsewhere.

So, random bug - when selecting multiple devices devices on Workbench, and then format them from the icon menu, once the first one is formatted with "quick format", the "quick format" option for the remaining devices is grayed out, leaving only regular "format" and "cancel" as options.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC