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AuthorTopic: Os 3.2 development preview  (Read 31750 times)

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Online kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #375 on: December 04, 2019, 02:47:20 PM »
You intend to redistribute the binary.
Why would I distribute anything?

I just care about my own systems, of which some have more than 2 devices attached to the IDE bus.

If someone else in the same situation asks for a binary patch, I would send it to them.
Chances are, it would distribute itself over time.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #376 on: December 04, 2019, 02:48:44 PM »
I still don't grasp this "identification protocol" you keep mentioning - how does a cable and two diods "identify" itself?
Probably because the adapters sold by some vendors are more than just a cable and a diode?

There is some logic in some branches of Os 4 that attempts to identify them, and actually, more than one. I don't know why I need this, I don't know how they work exactly, I don't know how the drive switch works, and I have no hardware to test with. My experience with Os 4 source is "rather mixed", so I don't grab something and "hope the best".

Do you finally understand why I don't want to merge some untested code into the development branch without having a chance to test that it does what it was supposed to do, and validate that it works as it should?

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #377 on: December 04, 2019, 02:49:41 PM »
If someone else in the same situation asks for a binary patch, I would send it to them.
Chances are, it would distribute itself over time.
Again, a derived work, that does not matter. Doesn't make it better. Besides, nothing "distributes itself".

Offline CBH

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #378 on: December 04, 2019, 03:21:40 PM »
Great. And then how do we get /generic vendor/ to support it?

Just to remind you: The problem is with the existing hardware that has been abandoned by its vendors. So how likely is it that this strategy will help users?

If you build it they will come, who "they" is doesn't matter.

I don't consider this hardware to be abandoned because it's still made and sold. They see no software updates because there is, until the OS changes in a usefully relevant way, nothing for them to update.
 

Offline CBH

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #379 on: December 04, 2019, 03:23:31 PM »
There is some logic in some branches of Os 4 that attempts to identify them, and actually, more than one. I don't know why I need this, I don't know how they work exactly, I don't know how the drive switch works, and I have no hardware to test with. My experience with Os 4 source is "rather mixed", so I don't grab something and "hope the best".

Do you finally understand why I don't want to merge some untested code into the development branch without having a chance to test that it does what it was supposed to do, and validate that it works as it should?

In England if we don't understand something at work, we can ask a coworker who knows about it. Perhaps not a German tradition?
 

Offline asymetrix

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #380 on: December 04, 2019, 03:23:51 PM »

@Thomas Richter

Quote
Anyhow, developers have now freedom: Either choose the simple gadtools "fixed width fonts raster based" gadtools layout, or the flexible reaction "layout.class" engine.

Would be nice to have developers have less work to do with similar apis.
This way One may just use GUI.Layout = GADTOOLS

One day the system could detect low resource and allow a user to switch layout in realtime.
Devs always reinvent the wheel, we must endeavour to do the work once, and allow APIs to make changes + add features.

Devs should only see and use generic UI components, the UI engine(s) should be detachable in case someone want to develop a different UI, with pre associated automation/script and shortcut assignments made default.

One day we might get templates eg UI.paint or UI.wordprocess etc

Maybe even attach Client/server comms like in windows inter apps communications protocols.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #381 on: December 04, 2019, 03:31:58 PM »
In England if we don't understand something at work, we can ask a coworker who knows about it. Perhaps not a German tradition?

Maybe it's British tradition to release something untested, but it's certainly not my tradition (let it be German or anything else).

Offline CBH

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #382 on: December 04, 2019, 03:40:03 PM »
perhaps you can test it by writing an ide splitter driver which uses it

it would go well with the 68030.library nag screen that goes away when we install your third party mmucrap.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #383 on: December 04, 2019, 03:45:55 PM »
it would go well with the 68030.library nag screen that goes away when we install your third party mmucrap.
Oh, are we down to insulting now? How fitting, you fight like a cow.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #384 on: December 04, 2019, 06:32:28 PM »
Would be nice to have developers have less work to do with similar apis.
This way One may just use GUI.Layout = GADTOOLS
GadTools and reaction/layout.class are not very similar. Gadtools places its GUI elements at fixed positions, either in pixel positions (<=3.1.4) or also at multiples of font size containers (>= 3.2).

The layout.class sizes  and places the contents of its containers dynamically, where positions are rather given implicitly by relations of "left of" or "is subelement of". A layout-based GUI is much more flexible, and also resizable. Gadtools is rather rigid.

One day the system could detect low resource and allow a user to switch layout in realtime.
By using more resources to detect low resources? Ehem...


Devs always reinvent the wheel, we must endeavour to do the work once, and allow APIs to make changes + add features.
Actually, I don't see that there is anything "reinvented". There is nothing similar to the layout.class on the gadtools side at all.


Devs should only see and use generic UI components, the UI engine(s) should be detachable in case someone want to develop a different UI, with pre associated automation/script and shortcut assignments made default.
Now, *you* are reinventing intuition boopsis. (-;
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #385 on: December 04, 2019, 07:09:11 PM »
I don't consider this hardware to be abandoned because it's still made and sold. They see no software updates because there is, until the OS changes in a usefully relevant way, nothing for them to update.
Oh well. The following is from the 3.1.4 sources:
Code: [Select]
                ; This is a little hack that makes things a lot easier for
                ; me. Due to commercial/support issues, H&P/Olli Kastl do not want
                ; to have 4way support enabled. It may come in handy for me though,
                ; so I do this little magic stunt
Only so much: You can enable 4-way adapters (since 3.9 and  thus 3.1.4 actually), though it seems that this was not indended back then - without permission from Oliver Kastl, it's probably better to keep it this way.
 

Offline CBH

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #386 on: December 04, 2019, 10:35:45 PM »
Ah, so the feature has already been made since 20 years ago but not enabled.

Can't wait for 3.3 where it is enabled, like 3.1.4's optional new intuition in 3.2
 

Offline nbache

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #387 on: December 04, 2019, 11:28:19 PM »
Is that the same "hack" which is enabled in the OS4 Classic port by creating a Kickstart module called AtapiIsMajik (or something like that)?

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #388 on: December 05, 2019, 12:06:00 AM »
Is that the same "hack" which is enabled in the OS4 Classic port by creating a Kickstart module called AtapiIsMajik (or something like that)?

Best regards,

Niels

..."ATAPIismajik 52.1 (7.8.2007)

The OS4 motherboard IDE scsi.device driver can handle IDE drives
which are attached to the single motherboard IDE port (unit 0 for
the master drive, unit 1 for the slave drive).

The OS4 IDE scsi.device can also handle IDE drives which are attached
to the second IDE port when IDE port doubler hardware is installed
(unit 2 for the master drive on the second IDE port, unit 3 for the
slave drive on the second IDE port).

The following IDE port doubler hardware is automatically detected:
- Elbox EIDE99

The following IDE port doubler hardware is NOT automatically detected:
- IDEFix
- IDEFix97
- IDEFix Express

Currently there exists no known method to autodetect the IDEFix group
of IDE port doublers, its necessary that you specify if such hardware
is present."...
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #389 on: December 05, 2019, 06:22:52 AM »
Ah, so the feature has already been made since 20 years ago but not enabled.

Can't wait for 3.3 where it is enabled, like 3.1.4's optional new intuition in 3.2
Once again, you have that feature already as of 3.1.4, and it will not be enabled by default.I am not clear about the details, but it seems that there were two reasons for that: First of all, it seems likely that H&P did not want to canibalize the Idefix market, and second, the detection algorithm does not seem to be 100% fool proof, it is a heuristic. So you have to get it enabled itself by a resident module of the name Gulliver already mentioned. It is equally easy to get one into the system, without modifying the kickstart.

It would be easy to write one, though our two "insult swordfighting heros" will probably continue to argue for another day instead of getting active themselves...