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AuthorTopic: Os 3.2 development preview  (Read 29468 times)

SpaceMonkey (+ 1 hidden) and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Pgovotsos

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #195 on: October 19, 2019, 05:13:54 PM »
Is it expected that 3.2 will be released as a complete floppy and Kickstart chip or just another update archive like 3.1.4.1? FWIW I would prefer a complete install kit rather than an update archive.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #196 on: October 19, 2019, 05:16:44 PM »
Will the new Datatype system still be compatible with older datatypes like Warp and AK or will it require the developers to update them?
The datatypes system did not change in 3.1.4, and there are no interface changes planned for 3.2.

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #197 on: October 19, 2019, 05:20:01 PM »
Is it expected that 3.2 will be released as a complete floppy and Kickstart chip or just another update archive like 3.1.4.1? FWIW I would prefer a complete install kit rather than an update archive.
There will be likely two options, as for 3.1.4: Software only, via LoadModule, or Software plus ROM. Its unlikely that we will have physical floppies as we had in 3.1.4 as they are extremely hard to get, so it's likely going to be floppy images on some physical carrier.

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #198 on: October 19, 2019, 05:29:42 PM »
As been told at  A34 last weekend, you are presumably running out of version numbers. Will that be the end of development or do you have a solution for this case, if correct?
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #199 on: October 19, 2019, 05:59:15 PM »
As been told at  A34 last weekend, you are presumably running out of version numbers. Will that be the end of development or do you have a solution for this case, if correct?
The version number is an 8 bit number. I believe this still gives us some headroom for future releases.

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #200 on: October 19, 2019, 06:00:25 PM »
I refered to the possible clash with already existing version numbers, e.g. for OS4+, which is v50 i believe?
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #201 on: October 19, 2019, 07:06:38 PM »
I refered to the possible clash with already existing version numbers, e.g. for OS4+, which is v50 i believe?
Don't you think that this is a bit too early to make such decisions? This would be part of a product policy, and certainly to be decided at management level. I can think of three alternatives:

*) skip the v50 numbers and continue with numbers above what Os 4.x left behind, then possibly interleaving numbers between the PPC and the 68K product line. (Will there be a PPC product line? I do not know.)

*) Extend the 68K API by so much that we get a common API between the PPC and the 68K line.

*) Ignore the issue, knowing that programs for PPC will not run on 68K anyhow.

But, one way or another, I cannot make such decisions.

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #202 on: October 19, 2019, 09:18:56 PM »
Shell now has the ability to have a partial name of a program or path
autocompleted using the TAB key.
Configurable? Context aware? Programmable? Cycling? Is one character enough?

Quote
We have a new shell built-in command called "history" that lists the
contents of the Shell history buffer with the help of the cursor keys.
For many this sounds like a scrollback buffer, which it is not - it's the command line history.

Quote
We also added the && operator that first executes the first command,
and if this fails, it aborts. If not, it executes the second command.
Why? Isn't this rather redundant as one can use "If not WARN" instead? Also, just two commands, or can you make a long list of commands separated by &&? And, when you have this kind of "AND", where is "OR"?

Quote
Error handling has been improved. We have a functional stderr. So we
can specifically redirect error streams when using the shell.
Great - and how do one redirect from stdout to stderr and vice versa?

Quote
There is now also a way to debug commands being executed from the
shell by using the serial port.

Super - though it sucks for those systems that don't have serial port, because "who in this day and age need that?" :)

Quote
The bootmenu got two new checkmark options that reflect on the
behaviour of the shell, and make its advanced options much more simple
to use.
So a new kickstart? What kind of behaviour?
Could early startup please get tab/shift+tab/enter/esc support for easier navigation with keyboard?

Quote
The ReAction GUI toolkit does a successful comeback, but now with
extended functionality and an array of bug fixes never seen before.

Because fixing bugs that had already been fixed would be awkward :)

Quote
Due to popular demand, the new intuition.library that allows you to
move windows out of the screen is now built-in by default, that said,
we added an optional fall-back method for those who still use the
unmaintained CyberGraphX RTG system.

Good - I see IControl is updated. This also suggest that there is a new kickstart.

Quote
Intuition has the ability to allow windows to be iconified and hidden
and this has been implemented in Workbench programs. An iconification
gadget will be visible to the left of the zoom gadget for this purpose.

What will this gadget do if Workbench is not loaded? Will it even be visible?

Quote
You can find scalable gadtools GUIs in most of the Workbench programs.
This means that they have become font sensitive, and properly adjust
to different font sizes. So you are no longer forced to use the default
topaz font on them anymore.
And which font in Font prefs is used? Same as for Window and Screen titles? Or has this been fine masked a little?

Quote
IControl now toggles on/off the out of the screen window dragging
abilities of the newly built-in intuition.library.
Yay.

Quote
Workbench prefs enables you to customise the text present in the
title bar on the Workbench screen.
Still not possible to hide "NDOS" or other non-validated filesystem devices, like the Ghostbuster patch does?

Quote
DefIcons is a program that attempts to identify different file types
and depending on its own configuration, it will apply a default icon
with an associated action to each of them.
Configurable file type definitions?

Quote
The RAM-Disk now supports "external hardlinks" and its purpose is
to integrate env-handling features into RAM, and avoid unnecessary
copying of files. This saves memory and makes the system boot
marginally faster.

Without any way of identifying such magic symlinks, I find this an obscurity.
Will be fun to play around with and see how one can confuse and break it though.

Quote
The datatype system has been improved: there is a new BMP datatype
that manages Windows/OS2 bitmap images, and an improved text datatype
with search functionality built-in.
Good, though I cannot recall ever using the BMP datatype and would rather see WebP datatype. Does search also work in amiga guides? Can it be programmed in document to do something else than search for text in a guide, for example to trigger a remote search on aminet?

Quote
Input.device can now properly manage multiple input events
appropriately, and this essentially means better support for USB
solutions that are aware of this.
Well, who saw that coming - input.device was perfect already for this, someone insisted :rolling eyes:

Quote
You will also find several fixes, optimizations and updates that cover
nearly all AmigaOS components, and a few other minor features that are
properly addressed in our FAQ.

Will the Workbench "Find" be "populated" again? Will "Execute command" in Workbench have a history as well? Will there be something akin to RAWBInfo again?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #203 on: October 19, 2019, 09:48:06 PM »
And another thing - Ed and More could work better together, so that Ed doesn’t open a new window on Workbench when invoked from inside More, but rather use the same console window. I suppose this is due to limitations in console though.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 09:50:22 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #204 on: October 19, 2019, 10:44:46 PM »
@Thomas Richter
thanx for your response.
I'd like to suggest a feature. Can you add a tool/functionality that shows which program holds a lock onto a file or directory saving the afore mentioned from being altered/deleted?
 

Offline Pgovotsos

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #205 on: October 20, 2019, 05:21:55 AM »
Will the new Datatype system still be compatible with older datatypes like Warp and AK or will it require the developers to update them?
The datatypes system did not change in 3.1.4, and there are no interface changes planned for 3.2.

I was referring to Gulliver's statement that "The datatype system has been improved". I was wondering if those improvements would cause any problems with older datatypes. Improvements is a bit vague so was looking for a little more explanation.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #206 on: October 20, 2019, 07:27:47 AM »
I was referring to Gulliver's statement that "The datatype system has been improved". I was wondering if those improvements would cause any problems with older datatypes. Improvements is a bit vague so was looking for a little more explanation.
I'm not quite sure what this statement refers to. What we did certainly improve were a couple of datatypes. AddDataTypes (the Shell command) had a bug we fixed which may led to programs trying to identify datatypes to read from invalid memory, the picture.datatype had a bug that did not allow other datatypes using it under certain situations (unexpected call order caused problems), the bmp.datatype is again part of the distribution and has improved a lot (OS/2 bitmaps, compressed bitmaps, true-color bitmaps, bitmaps with transparency are all supported now), and the text datatype has improved a lot, even beyond what is available in Os.4 (searching in the text, and a refresh bug of the Os 4 version was fixed). There is also a bug fix in the ascii datatype concerning one missing CSI sequence (CSI27m) which was not interpreted.

But the overall infrastructure did not change.

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #207 on: October 20, 2019, 07:32:11 AM »
I'd like to suggest a feature. Can you add a tool/functionality that shows which program holds a lock onto a file or directory saving the afore mentioned from being altered/deleted?
No, because the operating system does not collect such information. Locks are stored individually by the file system, so there is in general no externally acccessible list of them, and there is neither a list of programs which originally obtained these locks. It would also be unhelpful or at least confusing as locks are - as always in AmigaOs - resources that can (and are) shared between processes. It is rather typical that process A obtains a lock (e.g. the current directory) and passes it over to process B. For example, all the locks corresponding to icons a workbench-run program receives are obtained by the workbench, but passed over to the actual program.

There is no Os infrastructure to record this "passing over", so the file system does actually not know who is supposed to unlock a lock.

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #208 on: October 20, 2019, 08:56:57 AM »
Configurable?
On or off.

Context aware?
Yes.


Programmable?
No.

Cycling?
Yes.

Is one character enough?
Zero characters are enough.

For many this sounds like a scrollback buffer, which it is not - it's the command line history.
Yes.

Why? Isn't this rather redundant as one can use "If not WARN" instead?
There is no "or". || is output concatenation. && is sequencing. It is most useful in pipe constructions.


Great - and how do one redirect from stdout to stderr and vice versa?
Same as you always did. Without any other activities, stderr goes to stdout. *> redirects stderr.  *<> redirects stderr to stdout, *>> appends stderr. The shell syntax did not change, only the commands did (and the dos.library did) to make consistent use of stderr.


Super - though it sucks for those systems that don't have serial port, because "who in this day and age need that?" :)
There is a new ROM component for this in the planning which collects information that would otherwise go to the serial port and redirects this to a file in RAM:syslog. This would also collect data from tools like MuForce.


So a new kickstart? What kind of behaviour?
A new bootmenu. One check mark enables/disables ROM updates (to have a fallback in case an update is corrupt) the other enables the interactive shell for startup-sequence debugging.


Good - I see IControl is updated. This also suggest that there is a new kickstart.
There is an option for a new kickstart. As for 3.1.4., you can update by LoadModule, or update by a new ROM.


What will this gadget do if Workbench is not loaded? Will it even be visible?
What the gadget does and whether it appears is up to the program. It just sends an IDCMP. For the programs that come with the Os, the icon does not appear if intuition does not have it (for cgfx users) or the workbench is not loaded.

And which font in Font prefs is used? Same as for Window and Screen titles? Or has this been fine masked a little?
The system default font, unless the window doesn't fit on the screen, in which case it falls back to topaz.8.


Still not possible to hide "NDOS" or other non-validated filesystem devices, like the Ghostbuster patch does?
No. Otherwise, you won't be able to format unformatted disks.


Configurable file type definitions?
Yes.

Good, though I cannot recall ever using the BMP datatype and would rather see WebP datatype.
Then implement one, because I won't. WebP is too heavy-weight for Amiga.

Does search also work in amiga guides?
Amigaguide did not change. It is not HTML.

Can it be programmed in document to do something else than search for text in a guide, for example to trigger a remote search on aminet?
No.

Will the Workbench "Find" be "populated" again?
If you have WBFind installed, it is. That does not change. The workbench itself does not have a global find, it requires an external component for that.


Will "Execute command" in Workbench have a history as well?
No.

Will there be something akin to RAWBInfo again?
Maybe.

Online Gulliver

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #209 on: October 20, 2019, 11:23:29 AM »
Will the new Datatype system still be compatible with older datatypes like Warp and AK or will it require the developers to update them?
The datatypes system did not change in 3.1.4, and there are no interface changes planned for 3.2.
I was referring to Gulliver's statement that "The datatype system has been improved". I was wondering if those improvements would cause any problems with older datatypes. Improvements is a bit vague so was looking for a little more explanation.

If it sounds a bit vague to you, then I will change the wording so that I avoid any confusion.

Thanks