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AuthorTopic: Os 3.2 development preview  (Read 29453 times)

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Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #180 on: October 17, 2019, 06:48:30 PM »
As for the rest, I roll my eyes... starting to look forward to next time OS 3.1 forks a new fresh, this "branch" is introducing too many obscure limitations and weird behaviour.

I suggest you write a small WBRun and publish it if you need it so much. It is only an API call of the workbench.library.

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #181 on: October 17, 2019, 07:09:32 PM »
A wrapper that checks if Workbench’ arexx port is up, it uses that, if not, it uses WBLoad.
It’s what WBLoad should do already, but whatever.

I’m not publishing jack, any dumbass “expert” can do this themselves, the masses can follow your pipe.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #182 on: October 17, 2019, 07:30:35 PM »
A wrapper that checks if Workbench’ arexx port is up, it uses that, if not, it uses WBLoad.
I was more considering a C program that calls into the workbench.library if this is what you need. The rexx interface of the workbench can also launch programs, btw, so rexx is certainly another alternative and probably faster to do (essentially, a one-liner). There would be no need to fall back to WBLoad in either case. It's addressing a different use case than WBLoad, but that's certainly fine with me.

It’s what WBLoad should do already, but whatever.
Well, as long as I'm implementing, it's probably up to me to identify use cases for things I implement.... but I really don't get you: This is a free world, and you are free to write a tiny program yourself and publish it if you consider it useful. I really don't see your problem. I, personally, do not consider it useful, but that shouldn't stop you.

I’m not publishing jack, any dumbass “expert” can do this themselves, the masses can follow your pipe.
So, why don't you? Let other people make the work, and then complain about the results? Yes, I know that's easier, but it's not very helpful. Try to be a bit positive and contribute. I'm serious.

Offline Pyromania

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #183 on: October 18, 2019, 09:29:58 AM »
When does AmigaOS 3.2 come out please?
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #184 on: October 18, 2019, 09:54:47 AM »
When does AmigaOS 3.2 come out please?

Nobody knows yet. There are still so many things to do, so the only thing I can say is "certainly not this year".

Offline treqie

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #185 on: October 18, 2019, 10:22:21 AM »
Again, I don't agree. I believe "do not change the layout if not necessary" is a better option than "do change it, even if the user may or may not need the elements, but we do not know". This is called "the principle of least surprise" - don't mess with the GUI unless triggered externally. Window resizing etc. is requesting a change anyhow, so it does make sense there to perform a re-layout.

I guess what I meant was, you always look for ways to optimize your setup.. like having less things that takes up the screen, however small they may be. Or saving a nanosecond of things the system has to draw for the UI, bytes of ram to here and there, if it even does :p Nevermind, probably a ton of things more important. :p
 

Offline soviet

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #186 on: October 18, 2019, 06:46:30 PM »
looks cool from the screenshot where i can download it ?
 :)
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #187 on: October 18, 2019, 06:57:17 PM »
looks cool from the screenshot where i can download it ?
 :)
As beta tester, from the Hyperion FTP of course. For all others...please stand by. We're busy.

Offline Pgovotsos

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #188 on: October 19, 2019, 02:58:30 AM »
I believe Workbench needs a lot of improvement from its usability point of view. And you only coved the tip of the iceberg. It lacks so many things...

Besides browser mode, we need Status bars, Control bars, Icon tool bars, Shortcuts, Quick access to recent/most used objects, integrated search, a Navigation/Address bar, a Quit menu entry that actually works, an easier built-in method to customize all menus, MagicMenu functionality, a tree view, and I could go on forever, unfortunately.

The problem is that Workbench is so much behind that it will require a lot of manpower to get to a reasonable state where we can see it as a friendly partner within AmigaOS.

So dont't expect those changes will come out in the short term. Hopefully some small incremental changes may start to appear.

I go back and forth on this in my head. I'm just not sure that all of that NEEDS to be part of the OS. I use, and like, Amiga OS because of its simplicity. So much of it is just so obvious to use. I agree that some times those things can be very nice, but the beautiful thing for me is that it is easy to add them if I really want them with other utilities. Sure, it might perhaps be nice if they were built in, but I enjoy being the one in control of the choice.

Amiga OS is nice, lean, and fast. No it doesn't have every possible feature built in, but if I wanted an OS with everything and the kitchen sink built in, I'd use Windows. Is there really anyone who thinks that that bloated piece of "stuff" is nice, lean, or fast :) It only takes gigahertz processors, gigabytes of RAM and gigabytes of hard drives to match the performance that I had 20 years ago with an 040, 18 megabytes of RAM and a Video Toaster.

Amiga OS certainly isn't perfect, perhaps far from it, but for what I use it for, it ain't half bad :)
 

Offline Pyromania

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #189 on: October 19, 2019, 09:46:21 AM »
@Pgovotsos

Well said.
 

Online Gulliver

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2019, 02:45:41 PM »
@Pgovotsos

The functionality does not need to get in the way of users, but be available as an extra when required. Following the AmigaOS principle of "power beneath the hood".   

AmigaDOS and ARexx mostly work the same way, you can use the bare minimum, and maybe not even touch them, but if you require to do more advanced stuff, they are already there, sitting in the dark, not getting in the way. 

Have you used ScalOS as a workbench replacement? DOpus Magellan? They can behave and look excactly the same as good old workbench, but are highly configurable to deliver much more advanced functions for power users that require those. They have many flaws in their implementation, but the general concept behind them is good.

Anyway, as said before, this is not something that is going to be happening anytime soon, as there are a lot of other things which have higher priority, and even then, when the time comes, such things will need to be properly discussed and evaluated.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 02:47:57 PM by Gulliver »
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #191 on: October 19, 2019, 03:47:49 PM »
Can you or Thomas could give us some insight what actually is planned in this release?
 

Online Gulliver

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #192 on: October 19, 2019, 04:10:04 PM »
Can you or Thomas could give us some insight what actually is planned in this release?

As for the planned things, I reserve that right Thomas, since he is the lead developer.

As for things currently implemented (of course, still being worked on), I can safely transcribe the whitepaper I am writing, since Hyperion already displayed it:

AmigaOS 3.2
---------------

Based on the stability, bug fixes and progress cemented with
AmigaOS 3.1.4 (and its update 3.1.4.1), we decided to put our efforts
towards the same successful path, but this time focusing on
implementing new features, in this new AmigaOS 3.2 release.

In part, based on the user feedback and the support received, besides
the usual continued delivery of bug fixes that improve overall
stability, we added the following new features to AmigaOS 3.2:

1. The Shell

Shell now has the ability to have a partial name of a program or path
autocompleted using the TAB key.

We have a new shell built-in command called "history" that lists the
contents of the Shell history buffer with the help of the cursor keys.

We also added the && operator that first executes the first command,
and if this fails, it aborts. If not, it executes the second command.

Error handling has been improved. We have a functional stderr. So we
can specifically redirect error streams when using the shell.

There is now also a way to debug commands being executed from the
shell by using the serial port.

The bootmenu got two new checkmark options that reflect on the
behaviour of the shell, and make its advanced options much more simple
to use.

2. The User Interface

The ReAction GUI toolkit does a successful comeback, but now with
extended functionality and an array of bug fixes never seen before.

Due to popular demand, the new intuition.library that allows you to
move windows out of the screen is now built-in by default, that said,
we added an optional fall-back method for those who still use the
unmaintained CyberGraphX RTG system.

Intuition has the ability to allow windows to be iconified and hidden
and this has been implemented in Workbench programs. An iconification
gadget will be visible to the left of the zoom gadget for this purpose.

You can find scalable gadtools GUIs in most of the Workbench programs.
This means that they have become font sensitive, and properly adjust
to different font sizes. So you are no longer forced to use the default
topaz font on them anymore.

3. Preferences

IControl now toggles on/off the out of the screen window dragging
abilities of the newly built-in intuition.library.

Printer prefs allows the user to enter a custom output device for
the printer and select a unit number.

WBPattern has been updated to provide layout options to scale, tile,
interpolate, and center backgrounds if a picture is selected for it.

Workbench prefs enables you to customise the text present in the
title bar on the Workbench screen.

4. Tools, Utilities and System applications

Mounter is an interactive partition mount tool that operates on
devices that support the RDB (Rigid Disk Block) data structures.

DefIcons is a program that attempts to identify different file types
and depending on its own configuration, it will apply a default icon
with an associated action to each of them.

5. Miscellaneous

The RAM-Disk now supports "external hardlinks" and its purpose is
to integrate env-handling features into RAM, and avoid unnecessary
copying of files. This saves memory and makes the system boot
marginally faster.

We now have a new rom module called "system-startup". Its job is
to make rom updates easier and alleviate LoadModule from some of its
work by loading system components from disk, replacing many ROM ones.

We also cleanly re-implemented the AssignWedge patch that extends the
standard AmigaDOS volume request ("Please insert volume ...") with
additional features that allow the user to create an Assign or
permanently deny the requested volume until next reboot.

The datatype system has been improved: there is a new BMP datatype
that manages Windows/OS2 bitmap images, and an improved text datatype
with search functionality built-in. 

Input.device can now properly manage multiple input events
appropriately, and this essentially means better support for USB
solutions that are aware of this.

You will also find several fixes, optimizations and updates that cover
nearly all AmigaOS components, and a few other minor features that are
properly addressed in our FAQ.

Offline Pgovotsos

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #193 on: October 19, 2019, 05:06:10 PM »
Will the new Datatype system still be compatible with older datatypes like Warp and AK or will it require the developers to update them?
 

Offline Pgovotsos

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #194 on: October 19, 2019, 05:11:10 PM »
@Pgovotsos

The functionality does not need to get in the way of users, but be available as an extra when required. Following the AmigaOS principle of "power beneath the hood".   

AmigaDOS and ARexx mostly work the same way, you can use the bare minimum, and maybe not even touch them, but if you require to do more advanced stuff, they are already there, sitting in the dark, not getting in the way. 

Have you used ScalOS as a workbench replacement? DOpus Magellan? They can behave and look excactly the same as good old workbench, but are highly configurable to deliver much more advanced functions for power users that require those. They have many flaws in their implementation, but the general concept behind them is good.

Anyway, as said before, this is not something that is going to be happening anytime soon, as there are a lot of other things which have higher priority, and even then, when the time comes, such things will need to be properly discussed and evaluated.

That's actually sort of what I said. IF I want that stuff, I will run DOpus or whatever tool gives me the functionality I want to add.

Many of the changes you are talking about I assume will go into intuition.library making it even bigger. Right now in 3.1.4 the ROM has enough room to add the current intuition.library to it. If it gets much larger that might not be possible any more.